Trial Thread 7 May 2012 - Closing Arguments, Defense then the Crown

[nursebeeme]

peeps... kindly stop with the back and forth snark... you know who you are if you are doing it.

 

[snoofer]

Rafferty was in touch with CM TLM's Mother...

Passing messages to one another, I'm sure

jmo

but one or both is guilty; ikes! IMO

 

[AbbeyR]

The stories about Rafferty's mom seem like they could be a headline from The Onion "This just in: Criminal's mom believes he is innocent!"

Plus, didn't he live with his mom during the period that we have heard all about in this trial? i.e., when he was an unemployed, pill-popping pimp? That tells me that she either turned a blind eye to his shady dealings, or that (like everyone else who was in his life at the time that testified) she had no idea what was going on. Maybe somewhere in between, who knows... I'm not trying to be judgy -- just saying that I doubt her opinion regarding her son's innocence would hold much weight with anyone, let alone a jury, even if they did hear about it.

 

[Heliotrope]

RaffertyLFP: Derstine says there was no forensic evidence car was at Mount Forest for the killing

The crown will suggest the removal of Tori's pants mean she was sexually assaulted. Perhaps she was killed while peeing, Derstine says.

No forensics show Rafferty's car was even at the crime scene. Only says she was stomped and hit with a hammer.

Sorry, I know I'm way behind....

All women present who would in early spring, while peeing outside in the middle of the woods, during a violent kidnapping REMOVE ENTIRELY:
- their pants / skirt
- their underwear
- their pantyhose / leggings
- their shoes

in order to urinate, please raise your hand now.

No? No one? <crickets chirping>

I'm surprised the women on the defence team didn't quash that - after all, 9 of 12 members of the jury are women.

 

[lightlady]

Everyone here is nothing but not passionate about what they believe!
I look forward to the Crown's closing tomorrow and then more importantly the judge's directions. I think that will make the difference in what happens with the verdict if the jury is represented the same as we are.
It all seems to come down to the circumstantial/not 100% conclusive physical evidence and reasonable doubt. I think many here have very different thresholds and expectations in these areas and that determines whether or not you are satisfied with the Crown's case.
I hope the judge is helpful here and leaves the jury with a clear view of what is acceptable.

 

[LilyMacBloom]

Thanks to all the folks who tweeted, posted all the news links and interviews etc. I didn't take the time I probably should have to thank your individual posts. (my bad)

(I apprediate all your points of views (I don't use the alert button, I just read the next post) wanted you'all to know it wasn't me)

 

[snoofer]

RS offered empathy and understanding during his presser for how MTR mother must be feeling and how it would be for her. He said he doesn't hold anything against her as she is not accused of anything. I thought that was very generous for him to think of others during this time. Does anyone know if MTR mom has made a statement to or about the Stafford family and the incredible situation they have been facing? MOO He said he is not aware of the he knows if they have reached out to them. JMO

 

[Maple1]

So I know the trial is over for the day.
These comments helped alleviate some of the stress I am feeling.
I hope the jury keeps some common sense in mind as well.
MOO

Cheers!! LOL you know we are going to hear it so I will start pouring my drink right now

 

[Hello_Kitty]

RS offered empathy and understanding during his presser for how MTR mother must be feeling and how it would be for her. He said he doesn't hold anything against her as she is not accused of anything. I thought that was very generous for him to think of others during this time. Does anyone know if MTR mom has made a statement to or about the Stafford family and the incredible situation they have been facing? MOO He said he is not aware of the he knows if they have reached out to them. JMO

Well in this presser, she only had two things to say, that her son was innocent, that this could happen to any man on the street and that she looks forward to him being set free... oh wait that's three things.

Maybe she'll say something to the victim's parents once the guilty verdict is in. But right now, I can understand why she has to keep thinking her son his innocent. It's like a mantra, however it doesn't make it true, but she has to believe it.

 

[crazyladi]

Well in this presser, she only had two things to say, that her son was innocent, that this could happen to any man on the street and that she looks forward to him being set free... oh wait that's three things.

Maybe she'll say something to the victim's parents once the guilty verdict is in. But right now, I can understand why she has to keep thinking her son his innocent. It's like a mantra, however it doesn't make it true, but she has to believe it.

Also that Tlm ruined their lives. Feel bad for her and I understand her pain however I respected RS presser because he understands the pain that the mother feels, it was a selfless act to say what he said and I have the upmost respect for him. I stand in awe about how he is holding it all together.

 

[snoofer]

Also that Tlm ruined their lives. Feel bad for her and I understand her pain however I respected RS presser because he understands the pain that the mother feels, it was a selfless act to say what he said and I have the upmost respect for him. I stand in awe about how he is holding it all together.

agrees. He was able to take himself outside of his own pain and feel genuine empathy for another human being. Good man. MOO

 

[Dmman]

RS offered empathy and understanding during his presser for how MTR mother must be feeling and how it would be for her. He said he doesn't hold anything against her as she is not accused of anything. I thought that was very generous for him to think of others during this time. Does anyone know if MTR mom has made a statement to or about the Stafford family and the incredible situation they have been facing? MOO He said he is not aware of the he knows if they have reached out to them. JMO

I can not even imagine. Boy oh boy oh boy, kudos to Tori's whole family for being the bigger person in all this. I wouldn't be able to contain my husband . Mr Stafford has been much more gracious than he should be.

You can't help but feel incredibly sad for this whole family & family friends.

 

[snoofer]

Well in this presser, she only had two things to say, that her son was innocent, that this could happen to any man on the street and that she looks forward to him being set free... oh wait that's three things.

Maybe she'll say something to the victim's parents once the guilty verdict is in. But right now, I can understand why she has to keep thinking her son his innocent. It's like a mantra, however it doesn't make it true, but she has to believe it.

think you are bang on HK. MOO

 

[tmhco]

I am looking forward to a verdict. I will, however, very much miss spelling defence with a "c" and calling the prosecution "The Crown". Lol, I am easily amused. JMO

 

[Dmman]

think you are bang on HK. MOO

I'm willing to bet we don't hear a word from MR mom if the verdict is guilty! I would be immensely surprised if any public apology was issued to the Stafford family. We shall see!

 

[snoofer]

I am looking forward to a verdict. I will, however, very much miss spelling defence with a "c" and calling the prosecution "The Crown". Lol, I am easily amused. JMO

Thanks for joining us through this case tmhco. :O)

 

[Hello_Kitty]

TLM did have sheets up in her house that were nailed into the wall.
Maybe because she is a girl she just used a shoe or a can of beans......

I don't have a hammer (but I know which end is up and which side is clawed), I do use the heels of my shoes I never thought about the can of beans!

 

[Maple1]

He never said that, the defence "suggested" a different theory, which is actually not fact. Right at the beginning of Derstine's closing he reminds the jury:

Derstine telegraphs that he may present alternative theories, but that he's not necessarily saying what happened #Rafferty

http://twitter.com/#!/AdrianMorrow

Thanks.
This 1 twitter feed was very telling, IMOO. Someone mentioned in previous statements he would bring up "men's rea" as a legal argument.

The crux of Derstine's argument is that direct evidence points to McClintic, but only her testimony points to #Rafferty
7 May, AdrianMorrow

Derstine explains mens rea: you must intend to commit a crime to be guilty. If you do it accidentally, it's not a crime, he says
7 May, AdrianMorrow


Thanks everyone for tweets, links, etc.
Again, I am hours behind on today.

 

[nettie_82]

RaffertyLFP: Derstine said that Rafferty and McClintic maintained contact because both feared the other would go to the police [via Twitter

]

IMO, this was a classic from Derstine today...if he believes his client is NOT guilty, then why would he be paranoid about going to the police? You can't have it both ways, if he had nothing to hide, why be afraid? OBVIOUSLY, he had something to hide.

 

[snoofer]

I don't have a hammer (but I know which end is up and which side is clawed), I do use the heels of my shoes I never thought about the can of beans!

too funny Allanae and HK! MOO