Try to keep an open mind, an open heart and an open eye.

[jjenny]

If there was a car available....wouldn't the dogs have caught on to the scent?

Scent of what? It's harder to track someone moving in a car than on foot.

 

[marge_rita]

I would be pizzed off at baby Lisa's abduction or whatever you want to call it even if I'd never heard of FCA.

Precious, innocent, 10 month old babies shouldn't disappear from their cribs. I am heartbroken but will continue to hold onto the hope and prayer she is alive and will be brought home. (Although in my gut, I doubt that's true.)

Did anyone hear the dog barking, barking loudly when the BS presser was going on?
Somebodies dog barks---a lot.

imo

 

[Donjeta]

If there was a car available....wouldn't the dogs have caught on to the scent?

The scent of decomposition you mean? She could have been in a container, or maybe she was not dead yet. If it was a vehicle Lisa had traveled in before it would have had her living scent anyway.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Mainly, were this a betting matter, I'd be playing the percentages - most children come to harm through the agency of their families - but this one, if one I've followed ever has, suggests that one throw out that grim fact and begin again.

I've intentionally not watched the videos of the parents, thus better not to judge them on the basis of what others have: the truth or falseness of Deborah's tears, or Jeremy's taciturn demeanor. That's something which just cannot be done. One should resist the call of that false Siren.

It's all too apparent that some will jump aboard the boat with those who proclaim the parents' villainy with the least bit of prodding: the tabloid falseness of the allusions to the mother's "checkered past," or the tale of the box of wine.

I suppose it is because we demand an order be established - a narrative with which we're familiar - before we some of us can talk about the case at all.

For without a familiar narrative to cling to, what then? Then, then, we are left at an abyss of not knowing, of looking into the darkness and fearing the darkness, of becoming like our ancestors the cavemen suspicious of anything we cannot fathom, of what might come walking in the darkness down our street. It is human heredity.

It would be good to dispel that darkness and start anew, viewing this case with fresh eyes.

:goodpost:

[there wasn't an excellent so I had to settle for good BUT excellent post]

 

[Cappuccino]

Scent of what? It's harder to track someone moving in a car than on foot.

Its not that hard for police to get sniffer dogs to examine a car though.

 

[jjenny]

Its not that hard for police to get sniffer dogs to examine a car though.

And they probably did just that.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Mods merge this if you see somewhere it fits better.

This is just an opinion but maybe websleuths, the media, and now by extension Lisa's parents are reacting to this case all in unexpected ways post the Casey Anthony verdict. It does feel as if more of our innocence, and part of our moral compass were eroded by that verdict. Now if the case goes national and their isn't a circus and the parents don't feel trapped it won't "fit". I really fear this may be the new normal is missing child cases that last more than a week and go national. The expected norms, and behaviors may have gone out the window. While each of us individually is pretty levelheaded for the most part the group think and the court of public opinion has definitively been affected. How difficult would it be to hang fliers and organize searches for the family, we have no idea. How does what the media now expects affect the ability to "act" like the public thinks you should act. Is the national media and reality types quicker to jump on the bandwagon more now than 3 years ago, it would seem so at least in this case.

I have no idea the guilt or innocence of anyone involved and those who have interacted with me over the years know that I have no issue getting off the fence. In this case I really have no gut feeling other than the rules of engagement have changed. Should Tim Miller and Equesearch be brought in, at this point I don't know if that helps or hinders. Should all the old "normal" things we all suggest be done or should we be looking for new ways to search and get the word out through the jaded and imo darker view the collective whole shares? Thanks for reading, try to keep an open mind, an open heart and an open eye.

I truly hope that there will not be automatic comparisons to the Anthony case; that would be so unfair to the children missing.

 

[marge_rita]

In a news report earlier this week LE Capt said dogs checked out the vehicle (s).Im sure the video is linked here.

imo

 

[Cappuccino]

And they probably did just that.

I've no doubt they did just that. However, I don't see any sign that it produced anything incriminating in this case.

 

[jjenny]

I've no doubt they did just that. However, I don't see any sign that it produced anything incriminating in this case.

What exactly would the sign look like?

 

[Donjeta]

LE does not have to let us know what, if anything, was found so I'm trying to keep an open mind. They might have found something or they might not.

 

[wfgodot]

Here's the Search Dogs thread for baby Lisa's case:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151117&highlight=search+dogs+lisa+irwin

I see Sarx, one of our SAR and K9SAR pros, has posted there.

 

[jjenny]

LE might not let us know what, if anything was found so I'm trying to keep an open mind. They might have found something or they might not.

They haven't let us know anything.

 

[Cappuccino]

What exactly would the sign look like?

I would be looking for any signs that LE had dropped, or at least downgraded, the searches in the immediate area of the family home. If they had evidence that a car had been used to transport a body, they would surely be looking further afield.

 

[jjenny]

I would be looking for any signs that LE had dropped, or at least downgraded, the searches in the immediate area of the family home. If they had evidence that a car had been used to transport a body, they would surely be looking further afield.

The car doesn't have to be driven a large distance, so I don't consider that a "sign."

 

[Cappuccino]

The car doesn't have to be driven a large distance, so I don't consider that a "sign."

It doesn't have to be driven a large distance, but it could be driven a larger distance than the current search area. So that certainly is a sign that LE have no reason to suspect a car being used - although, I stress, its ONLY a "sign", its not anything near as solid as evidence. LE are probably up to all kinds of things we don't know about.

 

[Donjeta]

Searches near the home are often a matter of procedure. They have got to rule the immediate area out. Evidence can be found in several different places. Or not. There is not enough information for me to make up my mind yet.

I haven't heard that they have impounded any vehicles and I think they would have if they had proof that a vehicle was a crime scene but what they suspect I have no idea.

 

[ketel0ne]

So speaking of searches would it make sense in this case to organize volunteer searches?
Should Equesearch be invited in by LE or the family or not at all?
People have expressed they are not seeing fliers, should a focus be put on those?
From locals in KC is there an apathy to this case?
Is there a numbness to the possible outcomes?
If you were the parents or could give them advice of what to do next what would it be?

 

[SmoothOperator]

I am so glad your son is ok, Miss James*
I want to thank you and say that your having decided to share such an extremely personal experience with us is truly what I personally believe to be one of God's little everyday miracles, MOO.. But your choosing to share this with us In being openly honest about how our minds work when in alarming, adrenaline rushing experiences.. ESPECIALLY AND IMO MOST IMPORTANTLY WHEN THOSE EXPERIENCES ARE INVOLVING OUR PRECIOUS CHILDREN.. our minds literally kick into overdrive and in a way IMO portions of the brain literally are switched into auto-pilot mode.. IMO a necessary requirement for us to be able to somewhat "calmly" do what are the necessary sequence of events that follow.. If not for our brains switching that portion of the brain into auto-pilot mode we would experience system OVERLOAD and very likely do one of two things freeze, paralyzed within ourselves with the overload that's occurring within us.. Or .. Literally be a bumbling, stumbling mess and therefor act as an actual hindrance in completing those necessary sequence of steps in order to help/aid our child in their desperate time of need..again jmo..*

But another one of God's miracles is the intricate and unique way in which our mind, body , and soul work.. And in those intricate workings of the mind it's as if it knows when somethings occurred that would cause the "system overload".. Therefor as soon as the brain knows this is what is occurring it systematically switches that gear of our mind into the "auto-pilot" mode, thus allowing us to NOT basically freak out by paralyzing us, or the bumbling/stumbling hindrance that we could become working as an actual hindrance against what is in our Childs best interest at this crucial, often life threatening time thats taking place..*

Your description IMO described this process to a tee and could not have been a better example of exactly how intricate and detailed God created our minds to work amd to protect, and to allow us to be a help rather than a hindrance to our child in a dire situation.. Thank you so much for choosing to share this with us..

The only thing I would add is this.. In now seeing that natural process at work and how your left in the aftermath, even when things have become stable, you know your child is safe and no longer in danger.. That upon reflecting on all that occurred you see just how fuzzy or even having zero memory of certain events that occurred during that time(as you shared about your husband having put his ear to your sons chest and checking for*Breathing, tho u know full well you were right there when it occurred you have no visual memory of it whatsoever).. This IMO is all part of the brain that's switched into auto-pilot so as to not overload, and allow you to function like you needed to.. But as a safety mechanism of sorts it leaves the brain not clear, or with no memory of certain details that occurred during the traumatic event.. So, to take it a step further..
A) imagine if there were no "end" to the traumatic events.. There was no time for the brain to relax, revert back to normal and able to then reflect ALL OF THAT OCCURRING AFTER YOU FIND THAT CHILD IS OUT OF DANGER AND IS SAFE.. what if that were not the case as here with Lisa?? There is no end to the traumatic event of realizing she has been taken.. There is no down time for the brain to recoup when the child is no longer in danger..*
And then I ask that you add..
B) on top off all of this you add excessive stress from being isolated for many hours alone, away from any support system whatsoever and only surrounded by LE officers who now are clearly and repetitively stating that you are the one who harmed your child.. The child that your brain is still in overload unable to comprehend and not knowing what is being done to your baby, by whom, or if she is even alive?? All the while hours upon hours upon hours of being told over and over you murdered her!! We know you murdered her!! Mom, admit to us, LE that you murdered your child!! We already know it, save your family any more pain and confess to what we already know.. That you the child's mother murdered her and hid/disposed of her body!!

The only other component that I will mention in closing this post is on top of all of these unimaginable traumas IMO.. You factor in that there is the ENTIRE WORLD WATCHING AND KNOWING YOUR EVERY MOVE, CRITIQUING EVERY MOVE YOU'VE EVER MADE IN YOUR LIFE.. WITH A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THOSE WATCHING NOT ONLY OPENLY ANS HARSHLY CRITICIZING YOUR EVERY MOVE(past, present, and future).. BUT OPENLY SAYING YOU MURDERED YOUR CHILD!! YOU BABY KILLER!! AND THEY CANNOT WAIT TO SEE YOU ARRESTED AND THROWN IN PRISON WITH THE KEY THROWN AWAY FOREVER!!

On top of the extremely honest example MissJames has chosen to share with us, of how many of our brains work in a time of trauma involving what is most precious to a mom, her baby, her child.. If you take a minute and truly think about this perfect example, this perfect representation of how many of our minds react and work in our most stressful and traumatics times with our children's lives hanging in the balance.. *And you think about and add to that the 10+ hours isolated, zero support, still with no resolution to your Childs well being your greatest fears now your reality and for hour upon hour be told your child is dead and you are the person who killed your child!! 10+ hrs.. And THE ENTIRE WORLD NOW WATCHING EVERY SINGLE STEP, EYE MOVEMENT, Literally counting the number of tears that actually stream down each of your checks..LITERALLY!!! And many out there watching and waiting at every head nod, body language and did you have enough actual tears stream down your face in public(not crying or sobbing.. That is NOT GOOD ENOUGH for some of the public watching you..) YOU MUST BE PRODUCING ACTUAL SALINE FILLED WATER TO SPILL OUT FROM YOUR EYELIDS AND ENOUGH THAT IT VISIBLY STREAMS DOWN YOUR FACE!! .. if it doesn't meet that criteria then it is not counted as a tear and damn it!! You better believe that will be used against you!!.. And this is the God's honest truth sadly!!

That is what you are faced with!!! That is what you're up against!! That is how cruelly you will be judged by a decent percentage of ppl in this world!(and God help those ppl should they ever find themselves in similar shoes).. You've got an uphill battle and that's putting it as mildly as possible.. You are enemy #1 and are being told you murdered your child!! The child that is the only thing you give a damn about finding but with what has been created of these missing children's cases it is now circus like!! Your child being found is the least of anyone's concern it certainly seems.. Your flaws and your not showing enough emotion, not showing the correct emotion, or you didn't say your Childs name that specific magical number that is required of you!! Damn you for that, mom.. Truth is damn the mom for EVERYTHING!! because no matter what a mom does it's not to "someone's" likings, "someone's"standards, or "someone's" opinions.. And sadly to many that's what matters and that's what their focus is..

Imagine all of this on one human beings shoulders, and just imagine for one brief second that the mom is not the monster some attempt to paint her to be, and that she is actually 100% innocent, just like Polly Klaas's mother who was one bedroom(w/only a bathroom that separated)over from Pollys room where That monster came thru a window and left thru a window taking 12 yr old Polly out that same window with him.. And then raped and killed her, then being left out in the elements for weeks..Or innocent like Riley Fox's dad who was asleep as his daughter, 3yr old Riley slept on the loveseat next to her older brother who was asleep on the couch, when a man entered thru an UNLOCKED BACK DOOR OF THE HOME, grabbed a sleeping Riley who was next to her older, sleeping brother, left out that same back door with Riley and raped and killed her, then left out in the elements for weeks.. *Both of these monsters proven per DNA to be the killers, not the innocent, devastated parents..

It's a tragedy of an entirely different magnitude when these innocent parents are judged, crucified, chewed up and spit out and fed to the wolves.. When all they're guilty of is living their day to day lives in this imperfect world, just as you and I all do.. Not a one of us perfect, not a one us would stand up to the outrageous and unattainable "standards" some choose to judge these poor parents with..

ETA: just wanted to say thank you again to MissJames for choosing to share her open and honest account of a personal, and indeed stressful event that was shared with your husband and son..(((((HUGS))))) and again I am so happy that he is A-ok now..

****** disclaimer***** PLEASE READ*****disclaimer******
in no way am I attempting to portray this post as MissJames opinion or views.. I used her post with her personal experience as an example to "jump off of" and from there explain my own personal opinions and views.. They are MOO!! MOO!!

 

[Blaze]

Organized searches need to be approved by LE. I personally think LE and FBI are doing an excellent job covering the areas, not once, but two and three times. I do not see TES accepting this case, even if asked. TES has been their and done that. One with "world famous bounty hunter" and now "celebrity PI". What a circus!
I still think MK needs to offer his services to the parents and give them some solid advice.