GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #2

[tardislass]

The jeans SS wore were very fitted not loose at all. She's also seen wearing leggins in some pictures while she was abroad. Fitted jeans and leggins, for me at least, accentuates a woman's figure. Not saying anything is wrong with the two just sharing my thoughts on your comment.

I will say that half the young women in Istanbul wear fitted jeans and leggings. She would not have stood out.

 

[CMac2]

New article in Turkish press with fullest account of SS's itinerary in Istanbul that we have seen:

A lot of the rest is recap, but it would be GREAT if Yashim or Lavy could go over it and translate anything of interest.

Here's the link:

http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.aspx?aType=RadikalDetayV3&ArticleID=1120674&CategoryID=77


And here's the crummy google translated account of her itinerary:

I'm assuming they have surveillance video of Taylan K. meeting her at the mall on the 20th?

Also, where in this timeline does her decision to shorten her trip come in to play?

I'd add too (for our own sleuthing purposes) the dates her phone was turned on, to include the Skype call she made on the 29th.

ETA: from the translation, I'm confused by whether TK met SS at the mall or that other place she went to that day.

 

[shimz]

What I find a little strange is where she would have gotten the money to go in the first place. Ok, this is a once in a lifetime trip, I get that. Still, it had to have costs at least $1500-2000 total, I would think? Between the room, airfare to 3 different cities, food, fees, etc? Or at least $1000 I would say...

Now, if you divorce it from your own personal circumstances and consider she lived in an apartment in a lower class area of Staten Island, she was either unemployed or working only part time, her husband was a city bus driver (how much do they make $25,000?), she went to college part time and had declared bankruptcy...and had 2 kids...

I think Cmac brought up that she could have used some of her financial aid for school and I think that is very possible. I always used to get extra to help pay rent/books - you an spend it however you wish. Of course this money usually doesn't come until you are registered/bill is paid - and if we are to believe there was a problem with school, these things hadnt been completed. plus, it the extra doesnt come to you until around the first or second week of classes - in my experience anyway but we went to the same school. I wonder if she charged it, planning to pay it off when that money came. It sounds like she was strapped for cash if she had $ wired, credit cards are accepted almost anywhere and usually have cash advances so maybe they were maxed out??

Just a note about city bus drivers - they make a lot more than $25k. I just checked the testing info for mta - top salary is $30/hr for a 40 hr workweek - that is achieved after 4 years. That doesn't include overtime/differentials. So at the very least he was pulling in low $60's

 

[ToutCa]

I know NOTHING about you, ToutCa- but I know you're married.

My life is an open book!!! I'm just a simple-minded, feeble married American obsessive web sleuther of this frustrating, frustrating mystery!!!

 

[tardislass]

I respect your feelings -- but it does state iPad/phone found with body (and you're saying that is probably a press lie). Very strange.

I'm puzzled by the itinerary and all the photos they are talking about. If they really don't have the iPad and she only posted 5 Istanbul photos online, how do they know she took all these other pictures everywhere? Where are those pictures?

And how in the heck did they come up with such a specific itinerary? Wow.

Something's up with the lack of photos posted and then these statements she took lots of photos. There are many interpretations, but something's up there for sure.

The assertion that Amsterdam Ammer had prior drug convictions is striking to me as well. If it's true, I wonder if they are minor or suggestive of something more serious?

Its why I think they have more evidence then what the LE says they have.

 

[Yashim]

There you go, ToutCa and others. (And where are you Lavy?)

If she really did these, I believe her innocence. She was an in experienced tourist. Her local contact didn't offer much help.

8 January: Gets settled in the basement studio she rented in Tarlabasi

9 January: Goes out to get to know the area. Meets the grocery store guy, checkso out places to eat

10 January: Leaves room at noon. Goes to Sulyanahmet (Square). Visits Blue Mosque and Byzantium obelisks in teh Suqare to take photos. Return to Tarlabasi

11 January: First goes to Karaköy., teh to Galata Bridge. Eats at one one the fish restaurant under the bridge. Afterwards, takes photos on the bridge.

12 January: Goes back to Sultanahmet, visits Arasta Bazaar and Ahmet the third Foundation.

13 January: Goes to Eminönü around noon, takes a tour ferry to see Bosporus. Takes photos of Istanbul from teh ferry. Meets Taylan K.

14 January: Resumes her visit to Eminönü. Goes to Spice Bazaar and Grand Bazaar. Does some shopping and takes photos. Returns Taksim in the early evening. After sunset, goes to Galata Tower. Goes in the Tower, takes photos. Lates, takes photos of the Arabic Mosque. (was initially a Gothic church)

15 January: Leaves room to go to the Airport and takes off for Amsterdam.

16-17-18 January: Out of Turkey

19 January: Arrives at Istanbul Airport. Goes to her flat.

20 January: Wanders around in Beyoglu. Goes to a mall. Walks around Istiklal Avenue. Meets with Taylan K.

21 January: The day she went missing. On the Galata Bridge at 11:30. Seen in Sirkeci circa 13:15.

2 February: Found dead in a cave in the historical (Byzantium) city walls around 16:00.

 

[CMac2]

Good thinking, but the latest reports say Taylan is single.

This kind of violence is almost exclusively performed by male perps -- in any country.

I agree- women will shoot you or poison you. Maybe one shot to the back of the head with an object. There may be a brawl- involving a rock- but generally speaking, a woman is so enraged by that point, she's not going to hide anything from anyone, and will continue to pummel the object of her rage until she is physically stopped by someone. Regardless of how dead the victim is.

 

[CMac2]

My life is an open book!!! I'm just a simple-minded, feeble married American obsessive web sleuther of this frustrating, frustrating mystery!!!

That's what they all say.

 

[Yashim]

The assertion that Amsterdam Ammer had prior drug convictions is striking to me as well. If it's true, I wonder if they are minor or suggestive of something more serious?

I still believe she got killed when being a tourist.

BTW, the last paragraph of Radikal quotes LE say that "We are looking for a murderer not a rapist" I believe there 100% that it is a murder. But not so much sure about the rape dimension.

 

[Trino]

I agree- women will shoot you or poison you. Maybe one shot to the back of the head with an object. There may be a brawl- involving a rock- but generally speaking, a woman is so enraged by that point, she's not going to hide anything from anyone, and will continue to pummel the object of her rage until she is physically stopped by someone. Regardless of how dead the victim is.

Wow. I must have been hiding in a box. Shoot or poison? Generalization, for sure Why get mad at the woman?

 

[CMac2]

There you go, ToutCa and others. (And where are you Lavy?)

Lavy's off smoking... errr... curating those dead plants in her purse.

 

[CMac2]

Wow. I must have been hiding in a box. Shoot or poison? Generalization, for sure

I was actually being facetious. Obviously a woman can come up with just as many ways to kill someone as a man can. As long as the victim is someone she can overcome, the possibilities are endless.

Besides, what else is one supposed to do when discussing how "women" kill? Break down every possible cause of death at the hands of women throughout human history?

 

[Sandstorm]

If she were to walk from the bridge, to Topkapi, then to Serkeci, it's about a 35-minute walk. She had over an hour to get from the bridge to Serkeci. Do we know know she was in Cankurtan 'just after that', or was it later...?

http://goo.gl/maps/tDIAi

I wonder if she went to Topkapi, then looped back around towards the bridge, looking for Tarkan. But then ran into this other person along the way. Perhaps he followed her to Serkeci, or they went there to grab something to eat/coffee (it was lunchtime after all). Then he (if it's the other landlord) told her he wanted to show off his rental units in comparison to where she was staying, etc, and talked her into going back to his place with him. (I have a hard time believing that she may have gone around having sex with multiple men. Some women do, for sure, but I think she was just dipping her toes in the water on this trip with Tarkan - and maybe Ammer). The rest is history. Viable theory?

Heck, maybe when she didn't meet up with Tarkan that day (IF she didn't meet up with him), she sought out the man with the business card, knowing where to find him that day, instead. It *was* her last day - maybe she was looking for a friendly face, someone just to say 'bye' to.

Thanks a lot for the map! I have tried to sort the locations without success. Could you place her hostel on the map as well so that others could see where she stayed in relation to her walking tours? Any other places she visited would be appreciated too. I am not familiar with Istanbul and trying to put locations on the map offers various options for name and location. A bit confusing!
Thanks again!

 

[shimz]

Still, with taxes in NYC being what they are, take home pay is not all that much..they take like 30% away on taxes...NYC tax is 8% alone. As living expenses are alot. I imagine apartment was $1500 at least

It just seems like alot to spend for a trip for a working class family, especially considering the fact that it does not seem like she was working.

It could be too that she perceived the trip as a way to make money, perhaps in a completely legal way. Like maybe something w the photography, maybe she was going to try to sell some of her pictures as a way to pay for some of the trip.

I doubt her apartment was $1500/month. I have had two very nice 2 br apartments in Staten Island in very nice neighborhoods for around 1100 each only a few years ago. If you look on Craigslist, there is a 3 br house for rent in the section she lived for $1350.

I know it is NYC, but it is considerably more affordable in all aspects than say Brooklyn. Except for our bridge tolls. They are out of control.

 

[ToutCa]

generally speaking, a woman is so enraged by that point, she's not going to hide anything from anyone, and will continue to pummel the object of her rage until she is physically stopped by someone. Regardless of how dead the victim is.

Remind me to stay on your good side! :what:

 

[CMac2]

I still believe she got killed when being a tourist.

BTW, the last paragraph of Radikal quotes LE say that "We are looking for a murderer not a rapist" I believe there 100% that it is a murder. But not so much sure about the rape dimension.

The only thing I've seen that makes me believe this is possible is that info posted last night about those other women who have been raped- one raped and murdered, I believe- in the same area SS was found.

But LE seems 100% sure rape was not a factory. We're 99% sure robbery wasn't a motive- too much gold jewelry left behind.

So why would someone randomly kill her and not rob/rape her if they had no personal motive to do so?

 

[CMac2]

Remind me to stay on your good side! :what:

Just sayin'.

 

[Yashim]

We need native-speakers Yashim or Lavy, but from what I can tell the Radikal article also says:

-- Amsterdam Ammer had prior drugs convictions
(I think we all pretty much suspected this -- question is, was it small-time stuff for personal use, or was he a player in something bigger? No word on that here...)

-- Bizarrely, from what I can tell from the atrocious google translation, this article is saying the iPad and phone were found with the body?! Maybe the translation is just wrong, or the article is just wrong, because this contradicts what we have heard so far:

Turkish speakers, here's the key section:



Any help? LINK

ToutCa, here is the translation.

The body was identified by 19:00. The recovered lifeless body belonged to Sarai Sierra. First findings suggested that she was killed approx. 1 week-10 days ago. She seemed either to have fallen from a high place or her head was smashed with a stone. There were scratches and bruises on her body. Her jacket, her jeans, Ipad and cell phone was missing, yet her earrings and the bracelet, which was wrapped three times around her wrist, was left intact (wasn’t taken). Initial examination showed no sign of rape. Sierra’s interest in historic places (monuments) and railroad tracks suggest she went there intentionally.


Sorry, I was late to reply. It's not easy to translate such graphic stuff. Because you read it in your native tongue. You picture it and than translate it. That's tormenting.

I started thinking we could have saved her. We, one of the locals at WS could have been in Eminönü, she would have asked us about the directions, we would have told her not to go there. Or a car's tire might have gone flat right on that spot, a traffic accident or an MP on his way to the airport with his police escort would make the killer hesitate. Even a child's scream or a train whistle might distract the killer to give SS the opportunity to escape. Or she could fallen on the way and hurt her knee and decided to go back. Or it could have been awfully rainy on that day, or a petty thief's attempt at her wallet might have upset her and she would have decided to head back. But none of this happened. At least not on that day or not at that time.

 

[ToutCa]

The body was identified by 19:00. The recovered lifeless body belonged to Sarai Sierra. First findings suggested that she was killed approx. 1 week-10 days ago. She seemed either to have fallen from a high place or her head was smashed with a stone. There were scratches and bruises on her body. Her jacket, her jeans, Ipad and cell phone was missing, yet her earrings and the bracelet, which was wrapped three times around her wrist, was left intact (wasn’t taken). Initial examination showed no sign of rape. Sierra’s interest in historic places (monuments) and railroad tracks suggest she went there intentionally.


Sorry, I was late to reply. It's not easy to translate such graphic stuff. Because you read it in your native tongue. You picture it and than translate it. That's tormenting.

Thanks and I understand...I was hoping she would be found alive and was shocked and so sad when they found her body. It's not your fault, or Turkey's fault...at all. We all wish we could have been there to help her.

As for the translation, geeeeeez what the ****???!!! Now an article says her jeans were missing as well????!!!! No wonder Turkish LE is so mad, they have tried to keep a lid on what the crime scene was like, and all the leaks have been totally contradictory. It's enough to drive a sleuther mad....

 

[CMac2]

ToutCa, here is the translation.

The body was identified by 19:00. The recovered lifeless body belonged to Sarai Sierra. First findings suggested that she was killed approx. 1 week-10 days ago. She seemed either to have fallen from a high place or her head was smashed with a stone. There were scratches and bruises on her body. Her jacket, her jeans, Ipad and cell phone was missing, yet her earrings and the bracelet, which was wrapped three times around her wrist, was left intact (wasn’t taken). Initial examination showed no sign of rape. Sierra’s interest in historic places (monuments) and railroad tracks suggest she went there intentionally.


Sorry, I was late to reply. It's not easy to translate such graphic stuff. Because you read it in your native tongue. You picture it and than translate it. That's tormenting.

I started thinking we could have saved her. We, one of the locals at WS could have been in Eminönü, she would have asked us about the directions, we would have told her not to go there. Or a car's tire might have gone flat right on that spot, a traffic accident or an MP on his way to the airport with his police escort would make the killer hesitate. Even a child's scream or a train whistle might distract the killer to give SS the opportunity to escape. Or she could fallen on the way and hurt her knee and decided to go back. Or it could have been awfully rainy on that day, or a petty thief's attempt at her wallet might have upset her and she would have decided to head back. But none of this happened. At least not on that day or not at that time.

Sorry you keep having to delve into these details. I know it must suck- but know also it's appreciated, and we don't ask you to do it for any reason other than to try and figure what happened.

That said, they're now saying it may not have been murder after all? The one stupid detail we all thought we could agree on may not have been the case? I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around that. They said over and over again in the beginning that this is a murder- definitely. Now maybe not.