GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #3

[Sandstorm]

The only two people who know what happened are Sarai and Taylan/Tarkan. Although we do not know for sure, many of the sources reporting it are considered MSM in Turkey and not just rumor tabloids. In that regards, it's legit to discuss it as a possibility if not a probability.

Sarai did lose her life - very tragically. We could just end right there but then that's not what this site is about. It's about sleuthing - and going further than just the unfortunate news that she was found deceased. Theorizing based on what is being reported in MSM does not belittle the fact that she lost her life and that two boys have lost their mother.

Belimom,
Your points are well taken - this site is about discussion of POSSIBILITIES.
However, my point is: sleuthers on this board should not state opinion as fact:
Quote:
Originally Posted by yannis
i agree with that but she died after she had sex with an other man

We do not know that she had sex with another man.
If a poster decides to state that Sarai has sex with another man as a fact then they should put the LINK of an authentic paper where scientific evidence has resulted in the proof of that FACT.
Until then, a poster should substantiate their statement with IMO.

 

[Sandstorm]

hi Sandstorm i really appreciate it but if we believe nothing news say it's true then non of us should talk in here ... we are developing theories on what the news print ... otherwise we wouldn't have any information , right ?

Again,
IMO is the only fair presentation of a post when stating a possibility even when we believe it to be fact. This approach is fair for others who read this board. And it is certainly only equitable to Sarai.

 

[CMac2]

Wow. Y'all have been busy!

I don't think Steven had any contact with his wife after the 14th. I think, had he e-mailed/IM'd/texted her, he'd have said that. He is well aware of the media speculation, he is well-aware what people are saying about his wife, and the speculation of what her trip to Turkey was "really" about.

I believe he would have said, I last SPOKE to her on the 14th, but we'd been in constant contact by e-mail, (or enter your favorite method of communication here). IMO, he did not have any contact with her after the 14th. That could have been as much his doing as it was hers. He may not have been thrilled with her during that time, if he believed that there were reasons for her trip that had nothing to do with photography. No one would blame him for that.

As for the comments upthread (3 pages or so back) about her photography classes- I'd just say that she very, very easily could have been a child psychology major, simply taking some photography class. Every single bachelors' degree program on the planet (in the states, anyway), requires that you take elective courses in addition to core courses (Math, Science, English), and classes in your major (psychology). If the degree is a bachelor of arts degree, she'd take more "arts". If it was a bachelor of science, she'd take more math and science, but still would need at least a few electives. What better elective for a budding amateur photographer than a photography class? It wouldn't have set her back in her original goal of getting a psychology degree at all.

 

[english]

Slightly off-topic but I wonder where all those homeless people are now that the walls are out of bounds for them. I wonder if they will all stick together and make another part of Istanbul "unsafe".

 

[Yashim]

Slightly off-topic but I wonder where all those homeless people are now that the walls are out of bounds for them. I wonder if they will all stick together and make another part of Istanbul "unsafe".

homeless people don't necessarily make any place unsafe. criminals do, and they are in every community.

that place was unsafe not because homeless people made it so, but because government didn't provide safety measures for the homeless. After all, not being voters or taxpayers, they aren't quite the targeted customers for the politicians. And when they inhabit historical parts of the town, such negative externalities are imposed on the trespassers.

 

[CMac2]

Slightly off-topic but I wonder where all those homeless people are now that the walls are out of bounds for them. I wonder if they will all stick together and make another part of Istanbul "unsafe".

I doubt they have much of a choice. It's hard to imagine LE setting them up with other accommodations for kicking them out of their original squatting area.

Also interesting, the Doom's Day article posted upthread quotes a member of LE stating that when SS was seen on video in the area near the bridge on her last day, she didn't look like a tourist. Unlike the tourists that day, she looked like she knew where she was. This lends some credibility to earlier statements that she had already been to that place (days earlier) with TK.

Which makes me ask the question: If true, what was she doing back there again?

 

[ToutCa]

Slightly off-topic but I wonder where all those homeless people are now that the walls are out of bounds for them. I wonder if they will all stick together and make another part of Istanbul "unsafe".

...or we could be concerned for their welfare and future.

Homelessness doesn't go away when it's conveniently sequestered off the tourist beaten path.

 

[Yashim]

I doubt they have much of a choice. It's hard to imagine LE setting them up with other accommodations for kicking them out of their original squatting area.

Also interesting, the Doom's Day article posted upthread quotes a member of LE stating that when SS was seen on video in the area near the bridge on her last day, she didn't look like a tourist. Unlike the tourists that day, she looked like she knew where she was. This lends some credibility to earlier statements that she had already been to that place (days earlier) with TK.

Which makes me ask the question: If true, what was she doing back there again?

This is what I've been thinking about from the first time I saw the footage from the security cams in the mall and in Tarlabasi. She walked in a quite determined, self-confident manner, as if she'd been in Istanbul her whole life. This doesn't prove or suggest anything, but it's still interesting.

 

[CMac2]

For those familiar with/native to Turkey:

What is the predominant method of transportation in Istanbul? Is it similar to some of the other European cities where people generally walk or ride their bikes everywhere? Is it more like New York City, where public transit is the most popular way to get from one place to another?

I'm wondering if it's possible TK and SS had planned to go see the sights someplace else that morning. Maybe because of logistics, TK tells SS to meet him at the bridge, because even though that's not their ultimate destination, it's central to where they're going to be headed, and he already knows she understands how to get there. Is it possible he was planning to pick her up at that location by car and take her wherever it is they'd decided to spend the afternoon?

SS may not have wanted TK to pick her up at her apartment because of her nosy landlord, who made her uncomfortable.

That would be an innocent explanation for why she was seen at a place she'd already visited, on her next to last day in Turkey.

 

[Yashim]

...or we could be concerned for their welfare and future.

Homelessness doesn't go away when it's conveniently sequestered off the tourist beaten path.

They are homeless. Most may not feel attached to a place and may know of other places to go. Not that life there is and will be any easier for them.

 

[ToutCa]

when SS was seen on video in the area near the bridge on her last day, she didn't look like a tourist. Unlike the tourists that day, she looked like she knew where she was. This lends some credibility to earlier statements that she had already been to that place (days earlier) with TK.

Not necessarily.

We have an expression in NYC called the "New York face".

You put it on every time you go out, then walk around town fast and confident, hat pulled down and like you are going somewhere specific and most definitely don't want to be ****ed with.

On the videos we have seen, that's exactly how SS looks to me.

Maybe she had been to the walls before (for photos, trysting, drug courier deal), but her demeanor just looks like that of a typical NYC woman to me.

 

[looking4answers]

-Did she told you that she is going to Amsterdam and Munich? Did she went there to take photos too?

Yes. I don't know the people she was speaking to. Police is looking her emails to find out about people she was in contact to. They don't want me to share information in order to not to scare the suspects.

I call BS on either parts of the interview, or how it came out in english.

Why? Because Steven stated several times he knew A'dam Ammer as he had spoken to Ammer pn the phone before the trip, as well Ammer has been in constant contact with him thru the investigation trying to help out. Also, Ammer is the guy Sarai spent all her time in A'dam with, as she stayed on his couch, and he introduced her to his friends, but they were his friends, and he was always with her while with them. He even brought her to A'dam airport at the end. So what other contacts in A'dam Article makes it sound like Steve knew no one in A'dam. Article interview is odd and makes no sense.

 

[Yashim]

For those familiar with/native to Turkey:

What is the predominant method of transportation in Istanbul? Is it similar to some of the other European cities where people generally walk or ride their bikes everywhere? Is it more like New York City, where public transit is the most popular way to get from one place to another?

I'm wondering if it's possible TK and SS had planned to go see the sights someplace else that morning. Maybe because of logistics, TK tells SS to meet him at the bridge, because even though that's not their ultimate destination, it's central to where they're going to be headed, and he already knows she understands how to get there. Is it possible he was planning to pick her up at that location by car and take her wherever it is they'd decided to spend the afternoon?

SS may not have wanted TK to pick her up at her apartment because of her nosy landlord, who made her uncomfortable.

That would be an innocent explanation for why she was seen at a place she'd already visited, on her next to last day in Turkey.

People don't do much walking or riding bicycles. They do so if there is no other transportation or if there is heavy traffic. As far as I could observe in 30+ years in Istanbul.

It's possible that TK would have picked her up by car from Galata Bridge, etc. But I felt they were on foot.

 

[CMac2]

I call BS on either parts of the interview, or how it came out in english.

Why? Because Steven stated several times he knew A'dam Ammer as he had spoken to Ammer pn the phone before the trip, as well Ammer has been in constant contact with him thru the investigation trying to help out. Also, Ammer is the guy Sarai spent all her time in A'dam with, as she stayed on his couch, and he introduced her to his friends, but they were his friends, and he was always with her while with them. He even brought her to A'dam airport at the end. So what other contacts in A'dam Article makes it sound like Steve knew no one in A'dam. Article interview is odd and makes no sense.

It's possible the press edited the contents of the interview to make it appear more salacious than we would have otherwise interpreted it, had we been witness to the entire thing, point by point.

Has this interview been show on video at any point? If so, maybe some of our Turkish friends could take a look.

 

[ToutCa]

I call BS on either parts of the interview, or how it came out in english.

The family has been known to exaggerate different aspects of the tragedy in a way that portrays both SS and her marriage is a softer light than seems reasonable.

Nothing can be taken for granted here. But I'm not willing to call the interview a mistranslation or fabrication.

It's just one more piece of semi-un-trustworthy information in a swampy mess of similar pieces.

 

[KuriousKev]

I call BS on either parts of the interview, or how it came out in english.

Why? Because Steven stated several times he knew A'dam Ammer as he had spoken to Ammer pn the phone before the trip, as well Ammer has been in constant contact with him thru the investigation trying to help out. Also, Ammer is the guy Sarai spent all her time in A'dam with, as she stayed on his couch, and he introduced her to his friends, but they were his friends, and he was always with her while with them. He even brought her to A'dam airport at the end. So what other contacts in A'dam Article makes it sound like Steve knew no one in A'dam. Article interview is odd and makes no sense.

For some reason I personally think SS's husband didn't speak to anyone she had planned to stay with prior to her leaving. I think he only started speaking to Ammer after she became missing. I think what he told the press early on about speaking to her IG friends prior to her departure is not true. From previous reports he did not speak to SS after she returned from Amsterdam. Why not find out how her stay went? Obviously I don't have proof of this but it's my gut feeling.

 

[english]

homeless people don't necessarily make any place unsafe. criminals do, and they are in every community.

that place was unsafe not because homeless people made it so, but because government didn't provide safety measures for the homeless. After all, not being voters or taxpayers, they aren't quite the targeted customers for the politicians. And when they inhabit historical parts of the town, such negative externalities are imposed on the trespassers.

I agree that homeless people do not make a place unsafe. That's why I put unsafe in quotation marks.

 

[looking4answers]

The theory of meeting up with someone else in the spot she was near:

1. So far we hear she was walking there on the last camera, on her own
2. The LE would have video of either all people walking on the same or nearby cameras soon after, they could identify and question them all and take their DNA..etc
3. If a car stopped there for a prearranged meeting, they could also see on alternate cameras on either side of the area, based on speed and time to enter/leave from one camera to the next, if a car took longer and would had either slowed down in this period or possibly stopped. This is very ascertainable.
4. Subpoena all cell phone activity in the area. Heard they were all ready doing this. I think they do not need to know who called, I think all cell phones give off their signal to the proximate towers just by picking up a signal. This info should be stored. So anyone with a cell phone that is on in the area, bam, got ya.

Both 2/3/4 are also ascertainable in finding a random and would in fact provide many suspects in the area if not all of them, so I find it very hard to believe they will not catch this perp, I think either method even if a large net because of how dispersed the cameras and or towers, that they could very well find the perp this way.


Also, the theory of who did she contact, to rule out too many of the above possible suspects, based on either:

a. calls/texts she sent, which they could subpoen all records from wtv telco she used
b. emails/ims, they could subpoen from wtv provider based on the accounts they KNOW OF
c. for all accounts they are unaware of, well yes without having the actual "device" the app was used on, it is hard to determine what other accounts she had.

They could do the following to determine other unknown accounts:
- check all access to other emails she may have used on another device back home that Steve could provide to them, the sessions will be there even if deleted, there are ways to still trace them.
- If she did not use any other devices back home, they can still contact the main provider she used back home i.e verizon if she had an account with them on her ipad or Samsung, and ascertain all apps she downloaded or were sessions were seen being used from the device over their network, and then contact each co and subpoen records that will show all accounts that accessed their services on her account or even just with the same device ID.
- If she only used wifi on one of her devices, or downloaded an app specifically while overseas, they could still spend some more research bandwith and see with wtv provider her device used by her device ID on their servers what her activities were and with what apps, they contact these app providers to ascertain what other accounts she may have had. Then all angles would have been taken into account.

There are ways of determining all her accounts even without the devices, they are just more lengthy, but I assume the FBI or even LE has tech forensics to do this work.

 

[CMac2]

I think she was definitely meeting someone at the bridge (or somewhere between the bridge and where the surveillance video last records her walking alone). That explains why she went back to a place she'd already been to several days earlier. According to Taylan she had asked him that morning where he suggested she go that day, and he gave her the idea of going to the bridge. Why would he suggest she go back there if he'd already taken her there previously? If, as some have speculated, she wanted to go back there to get some pictures she didn't get a chance to take when she was there before, why would she need to ask Taylan for ideas on where to go? She'd have simply gone there to take the pictures she'd previously planned on taking before.

I think her question to Taylan that morning- he's the one who said she sent him a message asking where she should go that day- wasn't to get ideas on places to sight-see. I think Taylan and SS had already made plans- maybe the night before- to meet up the next day, but perhaps didn't yet decide on a location. I think she messaged him and asked where he'd like to meet. Not where he thought she should go for sight-seeing purposes.

It is possible as well, that Taylan only admitted to making plans (albeit sketchy plans due to internet disruptions, etc) because while he may have tried to avoid being seen on surveillance, he wasn't 100% sure he'd been totally successful. So he tells LE he was there, looking for her, just in case they caught an image of him down there. CYA and all that. Just like he waited until there were reports of DNA recovered from the body before he acknowledged a sexual relationship.

 

[ToutCa]

2. The LE would have video of either all people walking on the same or nearby cameras soon after, they could identify and question them all and take their DNA..etc

Many of those cameras show thousands of anonymous people. No way in hell to find them. Also, cops have theorized the killer could have made his way to and from the walls via back ways to and from the railway station.

3. If a car stopped there for a prearranged meeting, they could also see on alternate cameras on either side of the area,

Possible, but see above. Easy to come one way and leave another. What if he got there unperceived and then was picked up in a car. No trace.

4. Subpoena all cell phone activity in the area.

Yah, they're doing that. Feel bad for those guys -- loads of nothing calls, probably all nothing calls to investigate.

even if a large net because of how dispersed the cameras, that they could very well find the perp this way.

It's great they're trying, but like trying to find a needle in 500 haystacks.

a. calls/texts she sent, which they could subpoen all records from wtv telco she used
b. emails/ims, they could subpoen from wtv provider based on the accounts they KNOW OF

Already done, LE has that stuff, we don't know what it shows. As you say, if she has additional ID's, how the heck will they find those without her iPad?
I'm sure they are trying all the tech angles on the stuff, but if she created IDs on her iPad once abroad, I think it will be pretty difficult to unearth anything.

And, in the end, all of that is wasted time if it was a random! (Except the camera searches on the nearby street and RR station, they might get lucky with those).