TX TX - Caleb Harris, 21, Texas A&M University student, Corpus Christi, 4 Mar 2024 #3

[acutename]

I assume they can compare DNA from bones to his parent's DNA, but I wonder if the reason this will take a long time is because you just get in a queue in a lab, not so much that the tests themselves take a long time? Curious what others think.

wouldn't they have CH's DNA from his shoes/toothbrush something like that? Could they take it without his consent since he is missing?

 

[Vaderman]

I meant, though, that they’re likely lacking the skull and teeth to match to any provided records, because dental identification can be done so quickly, and they’re saying this could take a very long time.

Has this been definitively stated anywhere? It seems like a huge leap to just assume a head and teeth are "missing".

 

[SMK777]

Has this been definitively stated anywhere? It seems like a huge leap to just assume a head and teeth are "missing".

No, no statement.
However, It’s implicit in the statement that identification will take up to 6 weeks. We know dental record ID is speedy. Can you think of any other reason this would be the situation?

 

[SMK777]

wouldn't they have CH's DNA from his shoes/toothbrush something like that? Could they take it without his consent since he is missing?

You’d think that would have been done very early on. Police often ask for hairbrushes, tooth brushes, and clothing when people are missing. And families are eager to provide them to help.

 

[LauraAnne]

I'm not sure why LE is trying to convince the public that it takes 4-6 weeks to process tissue for a DNA match. No, it doesn't take that long. At all. Paternity labs take hours. 3 days from when you send your sample by mail, you get an email response whether the paternity is a match or not.

It seems pretty clear that to come up with a clear cause of death, and the results of a tox test, that takes 4-6 weeks. Matching paternity of the remains to his father does not.

This is excruciating for the families waiting.

 

[SMK777]

I'm not sure why LE is trying to convince the public that it takes 4-6 weeks to process tissue for a DNA match. No, it doesn't take that long. At all. Paternity labs take hours. 3 days from when you send your sample by mail, you get an email response whether the paternity is a match or not.

It seems pretty clear to that to come up with a clear cause of death, and the results of a tox test, that takes 4-6 weeks. Matching paternity of the remains to his father does not.

This is excruciating for the families waiting.

So what is holding them back on identification? We all know that the autopsy and toxicology process can drag on. But why drag out the identification process?

 

[LauraAnne]

So what is holding them back on identification? We all know that the autopsy and toxicology process can drag on. But why drag out the identification process?

I can't imagine, except compared to how silent they've been on all the other evidence they have, I'd say this LE department likes to hold all their cards extremely close to the vest. I suspect they want to have all the tests back, and manner and cause of death, before they say anything at all.

I don't think this will hold up. It seems public pressure must be building, from all the families and their supporters.

 

[SMK777]

I can't imagine, except compared to how silent they've been on all the other evidence they have, I'd say this LE department likes to hold all their cards extremely close to the vest. I suspect they want to have all the tests back, and manner and cause of death, before they say anything at all.

I don't think this will hold up. It seems public pressure must be building, from all the families and their supporters.

True. And I think Caleb’s family deserve to know whether this is him, or someone else’s loved one. In their position I would feel tormented.

 

[Vaderman]

You’d think that would have been done very early on. Police often ask for hairbrushes, tooth brushes, and clothing when people are missing. And families are eager to provide them to help.

Well, I'm a cautious person. Putting myself in their shoes, even though it's likely to turn out to be him, the remains could also belong to any missing person known or unknown. I would want to tamp expectations that an absolute identity will be made in a timely manner until it's certain.

I think the likelihood is that the comment was made with an abundance of caution and that it won't actually take this long for a confirmation.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

I think more labs are backed up these days with DNA being so critical so more samples are being sent for analysis. At least, I read that awhile ago and here is one article to back that up.

Here’s a Wisconsin based article that said their average turnaround time was 84 days.

‘The state Justice Department's crime labs processed DNA test results faster in 2022 despite receiving hundreds more cases, according to a report released Thursday.

The department's annual crime lab performance report shows the labs received 4,347 cases involving DNA analysis last year. The labs completed the analysis in 3,715 cases, with testing taking an average of 84 days.

Like crime labs across the rest of the country, Wisconsin's facilities have struggled with slow turnaround times for years. Experts say local police and prosecutors are sending more evidence to labs for analysis as they work to build airtight criminal cases.”

Wisconsin crime labs processed DNA test results faster in 2022

A new report shows the state Justice Department's crime labs processed DNA test results considerably faster in 2022 despite receiving hundreds more cases.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[SMK777]

Well, I'm a cautious person. Putting myself in their shoes, even though it's likely to turn out to be him, the remains could also belong to any missing person known or unknown. I would want to tamp expectations that an absolute identity will be made in a timely manner until it's certain.

I think the likelihood is that the comment was made with an abundance of caution and that it won't actually take this long for a confirmation.

Thanks for that observation. Hopefully that will be the case.

 

[SMK777]

I think more labs are backed up these days with DNA being so critical so more samples are being sent for analysis. At least, I read that awhile ago and here is one article to back that up.

Here’s a Wisconsin based article that said their average turnaround time was 84 days.

‘The state Justice Department's crime labs processed DNA test results faster in 2022 despite receiving hundreds more cases, according to a report released Thursday.

The department's annual crime lab performance report shows the labs received 4,347 cases involving DNA analysis last year. The labs completed the analysis in 3,715 cases, with testing taking an average of 84 days.

Like crime labs across the rest of the country, Wisconsin's facilities have struggled with slow turnaround times for years. Experts say local police and prosecutors are sending more evidence to labs for analysis as they work to build airtight criminal cases.”

Wisconsin crime labs processed DNA test results faster in 2022

A new report shows the state Justice Department's crime labs processed DNA test results considerably faster in 2022 despite receiving hundreds more cases.

www.cbsnews.com

Geez, sounds like they need more labs and more analysts. They are flooded with requests and it’s obviously impossible to keep up with them.

 

[Muddy K]

IMO, to be fair, it's only been a short while since the remains were discovered, then recovered and transported and then transported again. Since CCPD believes themselves to have done thorough searches of the relevant areas in the initial days after Caleb disappeared, I have to assume they were just as stunned as we were when remains were found in that lift station. There may not be a handy script available to address such an eventuality.

Further, it seems either evidence or waste water management procedures dictated that LE then needed to carry the investigation forward to the Greenwood waste water facility as well. We don't know why that was necessary, but those investigatory efforts are also young.

LE initially answered questions quickly, but only generally, in part, I think, because many specific details weren't yet known. Captain Markle said nothing direct about an intact body, a skull or not, limbs separated or not, bits and pieces drifting or not. That's why we can't know when an ID will be made. It could be days, could be weeks; we just don't know what they have to work with.

JMO, all LE enforcement involved want an ID as soon as practicable. It's their job to close open cases and solve brand new ones. It's also their critically important job to get that ID to a waiting family. We, the public, will get the ID, I believe, soon after that.

Then there is an entirely new facet as well, the investigation that, IMO, will have to be undertaken in joint by LE and Public Works about whether the lift station was breached intentionally.

LE has a lot on their hands here. JMO, they'll get it right. It is hard to wait, though. If Caleb has finally been found, I have so many questions about what happened.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

Geez, sounds like they need more labs and more analysts. They are flooded with requests and it’s obviously impossible to keep up with them.

I know. Crazy, isn’t it. Kind of sad, too, that there are so many crimes, missing persons, etc., cases that add to these backlogs.

 

[Limecat]

I haven't seen any reporting in MSM or from the CCPD that states the skull was intact. Do you have a link that provides that information? The only comment I have seen from the chief of the CCPD is that the human remains were "almost" fully recovered. So we don't know what exactly the police chief was referring to.

edited by me

I apologize. I did read that today but it’s not an approved source, and I’ve read so many I got confused. Mea culpa.

 

[iamshadow21]

About the delay for ID... I think it's important to note that sometimes, when decomposition is advanced, it is very hard to get DNA. Gannon was in a suitcase for almost two months. The first attempt at DNA identification in Florida failed. They had to do a second round of testing in Colorado, from bone, which was successful.

Foreign bacteria can be a major problem that hampers DNA testing, and this Doe was found in a waste water system. That environment is going to be absolutely filled with all kinds of foreign DNA and bacteria. It's going to have accelerated decomposition and the remains will be extremely contaminated.

In my opinion, they're going to have to go to the bones. If they had a skull, then tooth pulp would likely be well protected, but they may not have a skull if it has become disarticulated and not yet recovered.

MOO

 

[Janitor101]

The ME couldn't detect anything because the remains were too decomposed, but this is why they've been sent to the UNTCHI experts who are trained and have the deeper forensics expertise

Ahhh, thanks...that makes perfect sense.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

About the delay for ID... I think it's important to note that sometimes, when decomposition is advanced, it is very hard to get DNA. Gannon was in a suitcase for almost two months. The first attempt at DNA identification in Florida failed. They had to do a second round of testing in Colorado, from bone, which was successful.

Foreign bacteria can be absolutely a major problem that hampers DNA testing, and this Doe was found in a waste water system. That environment is going to be absolutely filled with all kinds of foreign DNA and bacteria. It's going to have accelerated decomposition and the remains will be extremely contaminated.

In my opinion, they're going to have to go to the bones. If they had a skull, then tooth pulp would likely be well protected, but they may not have a skull if it has become disarticulated and not yet recovered.

MOO

Great point about this poor soul’s remains being contaminated by wastewater adding to testing.

 

[SMK777]

About the delay for ID... I think it's important to note that sometimes, when decomposition is advanced, it is very hard to get DNA. Gannon was in a suitcase for almost two months. The first attempt at DNA identification in Florida failed. They had to do a second round of testing in Colorado, from bone, which was successful.

Foreign bacteria can be absolutely a major problem that hampers DNA testing, and this Doe was found in a waste water system. That environment is going to be absolutely filled with all kinds of foreign DNA and bacteria. It's going to have accelerated decomposition and the remains will be extremely contaminated.

In my opinion, they're going to have to go to the bones. If they had a skull, then tooth pulp would likely be well protected, but they may not have a skull if it has become disarticulated and not yet recovered.

MOO

All of this taken into consideration must be why LE is hesitant to commit to any promise of swift ID. Thanks for the information.

 

[PommyMommy]

JUN 26, 2024

Human remains discovered in well near missing college student's Texas apartment complex

Human remains have been discovered in a well near where 21-year-old Caleb Harris went missing. Here's what we know.

www.ktvq.com

[...]

In an update Wednesday, police said the medical examiner's office was unable to identify the remains nor provide a manner or cause of death due to the "advanced state of decomposition," but officers say they bore "no obvious signs of homicide."

When asked by Scripps News Corpus Christi if an entire body was found, Corpus County Police Chief Mike Markle said, "Almost. We found human remains. We'll leave it at that."

[...]

The remains are now heading to the University of North Texas Center for Human Identification for DNA analysis while Corpus Christi detectives work to determine how they entered the well in the first place.

Markle told Scripps News Corpus Christi that although he senses the urgency from the community and those close to Harris, quick results aren't guaranteed in order to properly handle the investigation. He said it will take anywhere from a month to six weeks to identify the remains.

[...]