I have a question along your line of thinking. The CCPD stated that they were unable to visualize anything inside the manhole as it had water in it at the time and they couldn't see to the bottom. If he had fallen into that manhole, wouldn't his body have floated to the top by April 18?
Bodies float during the stage of decomp where gasses are accumulating in tissues in the body. When the skin degrades, these gasses escape. Then the body sinks again.
If the body is mostly bones, it's going to sink. Human bodies don't just float when they are alive. The more fat a person has, the easier it is for them to learn to float. Some people never learn to float/can't float unless using arms and legs to paddle.
But dead bodies do not always float, and none of them is going to float once the fat and muscle are mostly gone. Tendons and fascia and bone may remain for quite a while.
NEW BRAUNFELS, Texas - A celebration of life is being held for Caleb Harris Tuesday morning by family and friends.The memorial is scheduled for 10 a.m. at the
www.foxsanantonio.com
[...]
Caleb's father Randy says it's been sleepless nights lately.
Tuesday though, was a celebration of life, to be with family and friends.
In the meantime, he wants to know what happened to his son.
There are still unanswered questions.
The medical examiner in Nueces County has not determined how Caleb died.
NEW BRAUNFELS, Texas - A celebration of life is being held for Caleb Harris Tuesday morning by family and friends.The memorial is scheduled for 10 a.m. at the
www.foxsanantonio.com
[...]
Caleb's father Randy says it's been sleepless nights lately.
Tuesday though, was a celebration of life, to be with family and friends.
In the meantime, he wants to know what happened to his son.
There are still unanswered questions.
The medical examiner in Nueces County has not determined how Caleb died.
I imagine it’s going to be difficult to determine exactly when and how he died. And how he came to have this accident, if in fact they are able to rule out foul play.
There are manholes and there are pipes. It's my understanding that the pipe that brought water via gravity flow into the Perry Place lift station wet well chamber was either 10 or 15 inches in diameter. The outbound pipe, carrying the pumped-up and out water, is 18 inches in diameter.
The top opening of the manhole in the crop field, per the People mag article, is stated to have been 25 inches in diameter.
A lot to keep straight, for sure. Add to the list where the intake pipe may have made bends, etc., including at the bottom of the 15-foot-deep manhole, and it gets even more challenging to envision, IMO.
I imagine that the remains only started getting carried through the pipes (manhole 25" vs pipes 10-18") after significant decomposition had taken place.
I imagine that the remains only started getting carried through the pipes (manhole 25" vs pipes 10-18") after significant decomposition had taken place.
Agreed. But do you think that level of decomposition could have taken place in the six weeks between March 4th, when Caleb vanished, and April 18th, when LE searched the open manhole?
Agreed. But do you think that level of decomposition could have taken place in the six weeks between March 4th, when Caleb vanished, and April 18th, when LE searched the open manhole?
100%. significant decomp can occur fast in water (when temperate matched, slower than decomp on land, but still pretty damn fast!). disarticulation seems to happen easily in water deaths as well, so the body breaks into smaller pieces.
found a great pdf source for decomp in water; lots of forensic gobbledegook but in the description of drowning victims w/ PMI close to 6 weeks, w/ temps around 12C, partial skeletonization of hands, chest, and face was seen.
Agreed. But do you think that level of decomposition could have taken place in the six weeks between March 4th, when Caleb vanished, and April 18th, when LE searched the open manhole?
He fell into the manhole cover nearest to his place
- It would make logical sense that his phone turned off when he hit the water.
- his last known Snapchat was right in that area
- It fits the timeline of the time of the Snap and him vanishing/phone leaving the network at 3:10 am.
- It perfectly answers the question raised about why he was outside but then his phone turned off before the food arrived.
What doesn't make sense (so far)
- It was searched extensively
- Status of it being open/closed that night is unclear.
- An alarm triggered due to a blockage. So was he down there the entire time? Is that a natural explanation for why an alarm would trigger months later?
- If he wasn't down there the entire time, where was he?
Regardless of accident or foul play, currently as established, it requires MAJOR jumps and leaps of logic which simply don't make sense, even applying the most liberal/generous interpretation. In my opinion, of course.
I guess I'll end by hoping that LE can definitely conclude what happened and that the family and general public accept those findings.
He fell into the manhole cover nearest to his place
- It would make logical sense that his phone turned off when he hit the water.
- his last known Snapchat was right in that area
- It fits the timeline of the time of the Snap and him vanishing/phone leaving the network at 3:10 am.
- It perfectly answers the question raised about why he was outside but then his phone turned off before the food arrived.
What doesn't make sense (so far)
- It was searched extensively
- Status of it being open/closed that night is unclear.
- An alarm triggered due to a blockage. So was he down there the entire time? Is that a natural explanation for why an alarm would trigger months later?
- If he wasn't down there the entire time, where was he?
Regardless of accident or foul play, currently as established, it requires MAJOR jumps and leaps of logic which simply don't make sense, even applying the most liberal/generous interpretation. In my opinion, of course.
I guess I'll end by hoping that LE can definitely conclude what happened and that the family and general public accept those findings.
Good summary, thank you for posting. I’m very interested in hearing the final determination once available.
If Caleb’s death is ruled accidental, I wonder if that opens the city up to the possibility of a law suit? I’m not sure his parent’s would be interested in pursuing anything like that though.
100%. significant decomp can occur fast in water (when temperate matched, slower than decomp on land, but still pretty damn fast!). disarticulation seems to happen easily in water deaths as well, so the body breaks into smaller pieces.
found a great pdf source for decomp in water; lots of forensic gobbledegook but in the description of drowning victims w/ PMI close to 6 weeks, w/ temps around 12C, partial skeletonization of hands, chest, and face was seen.
Bodies float during the stage of decomp where gasses are accumulating in tissues in the body. When the skin degrades, these gasses escape. Then the body sinks again.
If the body is mostly bones, it's going to sink. Human bodies don't just float when they are alive. The more fat a person has, the easier it is for them to learn to float. Some people never learn to float/can't float unless using arms and legs to paddle.
But dead bodies do not always float, and none of them is going to float once the fat and muscle are mostly gone. Tendons and fascia and bone may remain for quite a while.
I imagine that the remains only started getting carried through the pipes (manhole 25" vs pipes 10-18") after significant decomposition had taken place.
I guess the question is how long this decomposition process took until the remains were finally forced through the outgoing pipe. I can't imagine this process taking less than a month yet, as we are all aware, when the manhole was drained, nothing was found.
Again, I'm most likely not understanding something about the entire process. I'm honestly not even sure if an intact skeleton was found or whether it was just disarticulated bones. ( please excuse the graphic nature of this post..)
He fell into the manhole cover nearest to his place
- It would make logical sense that his phone turned off when he hit the water.
- his last known Snapchat was right in that area
- It fits the timeline of the time of the Snap and him vanishing/phone leaving the network at 3:10 am.
- It perfectly answers the question raised about why he was outside but then his phone turned off before the food arrived.
What doesn't make sense (so far)
- It was searched extensively
- Status of it being open/closed that night is unclear.
- An alarm triggered due to a blockage. So was he down there the entire time? Is that a natural explanation for why an alarm would trigger months later?
- If he wasn't down there the entire time, where was he?
Regardless of accident or foul play, currently as established, it requires MAJOR jumps and leaps of logic which simply don't make sense, even applying the most liberal/generous interpretation. In my opinion, of course.
I guess I'll end by hoping that LE can definitely conclude what happened and that the family and general public accept those findings.
The alarm is for the pump system itself, not the network of pipes. If he fell in a manhole a distance away from the lift station, an alarm wouldn't sound until his remains, or some of them, actually reached the station and interfered with the machinery.
He fell into the manhole cover nearest to his place
- It would make logical sense that his phone turned off when he hit the water.
- his last known Snapchat was right in that area
- It fits the timeline of the time of the Snap and him vanishing/phone leaving the network at 3:10 am.
- It perfectly answers the question raised about why he was outside but then his phone turned off before the food arrived.
What doesn't make sense (so far)
- It was searched extensively
- Status of it being open/closed that night is unclear.
- An alarm triggered due to a blockage. So was he down there the entire time? Is that a natural explanation for why an alarm would trigger months later?
- If he wasn't down there the entire time, where was he?
Regardless of accident or foul play, currently as established, it requires MAJOR jumps and leaps of logic which simply don't make sense, even applying the most liberal/generous interpretation. In my opinion, of course.
I guess I'll end by hoping that LE can definitely conclude what happened and that the family and general public accept those findings.
Great synopsis. Only thing I have to add is that the falling into the manhole narrative also explains why they initially felt he’d gotten into a car— he just suddenly vanished from the scene.
As to why he wasn’t discovered during the initial search of the sewage system: Someone had previously suggested that he might have been caught in an “elbow” section of piping. Later, decomposition and flooding forced him through. Did they use scope cameras on April 18? Difficult to get all the information.
The alarm is for the pump system itself, not the network of pipes. If he fell in a manhole a distance away from the lift station, an alarm wouldn't sound until his remains, or some of them, actually reached the station and interfered with the machinery.
So this definitely takes away from the theory that, “there had to be foul play and someone placing him there at a later date — or else he would have been detected there far earlier”.
Agreed. But do you think that level of decomposition could have taken place in the six weeks between March 4th, when Caleb vanished, and April 18th, when LE searched the open manhole?
Water speeds decomp. There's a lot of bacteria in a sewer system - speeds decomp. Corpus Christi is warm. Warmth speeds decomp.
A man who drowned in Lake Mead was found after 4 days - and skin was already mostly gone. Internal organs gone. That's cooler temps than in Corpus Christie- as Lake Mead is only warm at the top. Virtually no additional bacteria in those waters. There are fish in Lake Mead but there are certainly rodents and other wildlife in the sewers of Corpus Christi
.
At any rate, since it was reported that a body was found in the shaft under the manhole cover (and not "fragments of a body") I am assuming he fell in or was deposited in some other manner in the hole. It may have been just as filled with water when CH had his tragic accident as when it was checked on April 18th and found to be full of water. I have no idea what determines the amount of water flowing through that system.
Great synopsis. Only thing I have to add is that the falling into the manhole narrative also explains why they initially felt he’d gotten into a car— he just suddenly vanished from the scene.
As to why he wasn’t discovered during the initial search of the sewage system: Someone had previously suggested that he might have been caught in an “elbow” section of piping. Later, decomposition and flooding forced him through. Did they use scope cameras on April 18? Difficult to get all the information.
Following the accidental fall theory, I've been trying to reconcile a couple thoughts. Is the thinking the manhole was empty (no water) as it was before the heavy rains and CH succumb to injuries whether initially fatal or thereafter or there was water in the manhole and he drowned? I'm also wondering if the manhole in question had any type of ladder access used for maintenance.
Water speeds decomp. There's a lot of bacteria in a sewer system - speeds decomp. Corpus Christi is warm. Warmth speeds decomp.
A man who drowned in Lake Mead was found after 4 days - and skin was already mostly gone. Internal organs gone. That's cooler temps than in Corpus Christie- as Lake Mead is only warm at the top. Virtually no additional bacteria in those waters. There are fish in Lake Mead but there are certainly rodents and other wildlife in the sewers of Corpus Christi
.
At any rate, since it was reported that a body was found in the shaft under the manhole cover (and not "fragments of a body") I am assuming he fell in or was deposited in some other manner in the hole. It may have been just as filled with water when CH had his tragic accident as when it was checked on April 18th and found to be full of water. I have no idea what determines the amount of water flowing through that system.
I have not looked at your link yet, working up my courage!!
I’ve heard the term saponification used in reference to the decomposition process and that it might affect how the remains appear? Would that be a factor here?
Water speeds decomp. There's a lot of bacteria in a sewer system - speeds decomp. Corpus Christi is warm. Warmth speeds decomp.
A man who drowned in Lake Mead was found after 4 days - and skin was already mostly gone. Internal organs gone. That's cooler temps than in Corpus Christie- as Lake Mead is only warm at the top. Virtually no additional bacteria in those waters. There are fish in Lake Mead but there are certainly rodents and other wildlife in the sewers of Corpus Christi
.
At any rate, since it was reported that a body was found in the shaft under the manhole cover (and not "fragments of a body") I am assuming he fell in or was deposited in some other manner in the hole. It may have been just as filled with water when CH had his tragic accident as when it was checked on April 18th and found to be full of water. I have no idea what determines the amount of water flowing through that system.
@10ofRods thank you for the helpful schooling. I, like others, can be confused by some of the terms around the waste water system, some of which appear to be interchangeable. I'm adding my understanding of the events once again, in case it alters anything you've suggested.
The theory is that Caleb accidentally fell into an open manhole in the crop field across the road from his apartment complex.
As far as I'm aware, it's not been stated if that manhole had rebar ladder rungs in it.
A woman discovered the manhole, its cover moved aside, on April 17th and alerted CCPD LE, who then searched it on April 18th. Finding it partially filled with water initially, they had the manhole drained and did not find any evidence of human remains. According to CCPD Deputy Chief Breedlove in his interview with People Magazine, later that same day, April 18th, LE had the lift station tank drained as well and found nothing. Bolding mine.
Given what you explained, it's possible there were no remains to be discovered in the manhole because they had already disintegrated and been flushed into the 15-inch lateral pipe and were drifting toward the Perry Place lift station, but had not arrived there yet.
Caleb's remains are then discovered on June 24th on the wet well chamber (tank) of the lift station. There are differing statements from LE about what exactly was found and what prompted the discovery of the remains. Breedlove stated DPW employees responded to the Perry Place lift station when the pump set off an alarm indicative of a jam. Breedlove said a human shoulder bone had caused the pump to jam and that in the end they were able to recover "small other pieces of bone" after draining the wet well chamber.
But in another statement, printed by the Caller Times, Asst. Police Chief Todd Green said when the Corpus Christi Fire Department opened the access panel to the wet well chamber, a portion of the body was visibly clear through the grate – including the head.
So I guess what I keep puzzling over is the definition of "a portion of the body." If the shoulders were intact, even if mostly skeletal, do you think they could have fit through a 15-inch pipe? Is bone that pliable? My shoulder span is approximately 18 inches; I believe Caleb's would have been bigger.
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