TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

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Does anyone know if Rusty's has told Andrea that he is remarried and has a child.
 
Andrea did not have the best of care, but she certainly didn't have the worst. There were things that she and Rusty withheld from the doctors as well--the severity and violence of her hallucinations, for one thing. When she was hospitalized long-term, she did not participate in the group therapy sessions, but Rusty talked for her.
 
2XL said:
Does anyone know if Rusty's has told Andrea that he is remarried and has a child.
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Yes he has, her Atty confirmed she is aware and is "ok" with it, happy for him.

I suppose his visiting her is "good" but I think if I was one of her family members I would encourage the gradual "weaning" of Andrea away from visits with Rusty. I have always felt that it was something he did to make himself feel (and look) better - not solely for HER benefit. They ARE divorced now and he is remarried and a new father - that cannot be easy for Andrea, no matter what she says publicly. I am not sure, now that she is lucid and medicated and in daily therapy that she "needs" Rusty visiting her.

I just wish she had other friends who could be there for her, but their strange lifestyle, Rusty's religiously motivated "isolation" of the family and Andrea's own illness, kept her cut off from everyone but a few family members. Poor Andrea had no friends, not a single other Mom or even another Homeschooler family in her life and Rusty certainly didn't encourage her reaching out - or reach out himself. Their "best friends" were that Quiverfull Preacher Woroniecki and his wife - who WROTE Andrea many many letters....

In the aftermath of the drownings, investigative reporter Suzy Spencer discovered letters written to Yates by the Woroniecki family that berated her for her "unrighteous standing before God". A newsletter called Perilous Times, authored by the Woronieckis the first month of 2000, was introduced into evidence at her trials to help establish the central motivating content behind her psychotic delusions.
Also introduced at the retrial was a video produced by the Woronieckis in 1996. In this video, the preacher condemns what he calls the modern "husband goes to work, wife just exists, hypocritical Christian lifestyle." Although the Yates' were not mentioned by name in the video, the Yates did receive a copy mailed directly to them from the Woronieckis when it was first distributed. The defense argued that Yates' delusions followed the video's rationale that the life she was living would ensure her children's fate in hell. The Woronieckis taught in the video that parents must preach full time on the streets, "training" their children by example, so they could be "saved;" however, Russell continued to work at NASA contrary to Woroniecki's instructions.
Yates told her jail psychiatrist, "It was the 7th Deadly Sin. My children weren't righteous. They stumbled because I was evil. The way I was raising them, they could never be saved. They were doomed to perish in the fires of hell."

Yep, Rusty went out every day to work and left a severely disturbed Andrea "trapped" at home with those teachings and 5 small children. She had no-one to reach out to and no way (in her mind) to escape because she thought she had forever ruined her children with her own "sins" - as outlined by Woroniecki and his wife.

Andrea is in prison now (and it is prison, just one for mentally ill inmates) - but she was in prison before - just a different one, and Rusty Yates is a very large part of that. I think so long as she is still "connected" to Rusty, she will never be fully free of the mental and emotional prison Rusty and the Woronieckis put her in. I really hope, for Andrea's sake, that one day she is free of Rusty and that part of her life. She will NEVER be free of what she did, but I think she can be free of Rusty and his baggage. He has moved on - I hope one day Andrea can tell him she doesn't need or want him in her life anymore and he is free to live "his new life" without her.

My Opinion
 
CarpeDiem said:
He never read Andrea's files when she became his patient, they went back to 1999. Two weeks before the murders of the children, he took Andrea off Haldol, though she wasn't better and it was the only drug that ever worked for her psychosis. Two days before the murders, Rusty desperate took Andrea back to him because of the condition she was in, Saaed still refused the Haldol, instead increased the antidepressants and Dr. Saaed's last words to Andrea would be "Think positive thoughts". :mad:
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ok i want to make sure i understand your post. rusty was so worried about the mental health of his wife he was "desperate". yet he left her alone with his children. he lived with her every day and could see she was getting worse in the last 2 weeks. it was so bad he asked the doctor to put her back on the prior medication and the doctor refused. yet he left her alone with the children.

your post makes me feel even more anger at rusty.
 
FlowerChild said:
Yes he has, her Atty confirmed she is aware and is "ok" with it, happy for him.


I just wish she had other friends who could be there for her, but their strange lifestyle, Rusty's religiously motivated "isolation" of the family and Andrea's own illness, kept her cut off from everyone but a few family members. Poor Andrea had no friends, not a single other Mom or even another Homeschooler family in her life and Rusty certainly didn't encourage her reaching out - or reach out himself. Their "best friends" were that Quiverfull Preacher Woroniecki and his wife - who WROTE Andrea many many letters....
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You're quite wrong on that. Andrea had a best friend, they worked together during their days as cancer nurses and remained close. Her name was Debbie Holmes and during the trials she described their relationship to be like "sisters". She saw Andrea just weeks before the murders.
 
I kinda think Rusty should stop seeing Andrea as well but I'm sure if he is anyway interfering with her recovery, her doctors would do something about it.
I just hope he doesn't go visit and show her photos of his new baby!:eek:
 
CarpeDiem said:
You're quite wrong on that. Andrea had a best friend, they worked together during their days as cancer nurses and remained close. Her name was Debbie Holmes and during the trials she described their relationship to be like "sisters". She saw Andrea just weeks before the murders.
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I think that is wonderful... but... Andrea and Rusty's life described in testimony doesn't reflect that Debbie was a frequent visitor to their home or was in close touch with Andrea. Did Debbie have concerns? Speak to Andrea's family about her? To Rusty? And one "old friend" from her life BEFORE Rusty was not much of a support system for Andrea. Since the Yates had been LIVING IN A BUS and some distance away for quite a time before returning to Houston how close was Debbie ALLOWED to be in all that time? Andrea did not seem to "disobey" Rusty's wishes, so how much was she ALLOWED to share with Debbie - even when they did live near her. I know most "Quiverful" families socialize ONLY with like minded families and mainly keep to themselves - I wonder how much Andrea really shared with Debbie?? I have a feeling, not much - or SURELY Debbie would have tried to do SOMETHING to help her.

I see my real sister at LEAST once a week and talk to her DAILY because she is single, has some health issues and is also on anti-depressants - and she is GREAT, unlike Andrea. I talk to my friends who have health (mental or physical) issues at least several times a week and see many of them at least weekly - and at least once a month I visit them IN THEIR HOMES...and at any time if I see, sense or hear something that doesn't seem "right" I move immediately to DO SOMETHING - I help them or get help and get it resolved. I think Debbie was perhaps the ONLY friend Andrea had and the closest person to her other than her parents, but even she wasn't truly close to the "post Rusty" mentally ill Andrea - Andrea was for all intents and purposes...alone - and obviously FELT alone as well.

I PRAY Debbie is STILL like a sister to Andrea - and that she is able to visit Andrea often and continues to be her dear friend no matter what. I hope Debbie is even CLOSER to Andrea now, but I also know that visiting Andrea is not easy or always pleasant and being a close friend to her now requires many sacrifices and often is as much pain as pleasure - being a friend to Andrea NOW is even more of a challenge than it was when she was ill - precisely because she ISN'T ill and now lives each second of her life alone and fully aware of what she did and what she lost.

My Opinion
 
Excellent post, FlowerChild.

Andrea's friend Debbie knew her from her nursing job days. Current friends since then, she had none.
 
I have always partly blamed Rusty for the cause of this. He knew that Andrea was sick but allowed her to continue to have children and even moved all of them on a bus at one point. I hope that he treats his second wife and their child differently.
 
lavonne said:
Here's a question for anyone who has "slipped" into mental depression/psychosis.

Is there a stage, at anytime, when you are lucid enough to realize that you are losing your grip on reality?

I believe there is....even if the window is so small, you know it is happening.

Andrea knew.

She did nothing.

She wanted Rusty to do "something" for her.

She knew.

She waited.

Until it was too late.

She bears the responsibility for doing nothing.
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You're very wrong...She did do something...She tried to kill herself first.

You're forgetting that the right help has to come at the right time from OUTSIDE the person who's experiencing the mental break. It's not something you can save yourself from.

In my aunt's case, she drove herself over to my parent's house before the absolute break occurred. In Andrea's case, it was the suicide attempt.
 
I had 5 kids in 6 years... I had ti rough with no help and I had suicidal and homicidal thoughts I was diagnosed wtih post partum depression with psychosis tendencies . I had preemies in the NICU with a 20 month old at home we had therapies for 2 special needs kids every single day sometimes 5 appts a day. I got myself meds and dealt with things.. I didn't kill my kids. I think she should have been put in prison for the rest of her life.
 
Good for you peeples, for recognizing what happened. She is in prison for life, regardless of where she goes. JMVHO.
 
peeples said:
I had 5 kids in 6 years... I had ti rough with no help and I had suicidal and homicidal thoughts I was diagnosed wtih post partum depression with psychosis tendencies . I had preemies in the NICU with a 20 month old at home we had therapies for 2 special needs kids every single day sometimes 5 appts a day. I got myself meds and dealt with things.. I didn't kill my kids. I think she should have been put in prison for the rest of her life.
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BBM~

Wow, that must have been very challenging. I'm glad you are ok.

Rusty didn't want Andrea to take medication.
 
I cannot help to assign him a role. I am not alone in feeling this way I know. This appears to have been a quiverfull situation with the worst possible outcome. In all other cases where there is an actively involved spouse and another spouse who commits an unthinkable act, we ponder the role of the "healthier" spouse.

To me there is no pondering-to me it is black and white. Not that he doesnt have a nightmare to live with as well. It is very hard to say what is adequate punishment in this case, but she defines insanity to me.
 
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