TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #4

[rosesfromangels]

What was the “first incident”?

Dallas officer who killed black neighbor also shot a man in 2017 incident

 

[rosesfromangels]

I don't think there is any evidence that she had any beef with him. I believe her story, I believe she went into the wrong apartment by mistake and then shot him because she wrongly thought he was in her apartment.
The problem here is, if he actually was in her apartment, she is allowed to shoot without having to retreat due to stand your ground law. So this becomes very tricky due to TX laws.
If she believes she is defending herself, then there is no malicious intent, is there?
I think there should be laws covering so-called "accidental" shootings but as of now I don't think TX has them.
But I think murder charge is a stretch.

Respectfully have a completely different POV. The DA would not be going for murder without some solid evidence. It is my *speculation* that the discovery process will show she had filed noise/pot smell, etc. complaints with the management against him. Time will tell.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[mickey2942]

Okay, it is officially driving me insane that no more evidence has been released!

1. The bloodwork from A.G.
2. Audio file of 911 call.
3. Autopsy
4. A.G. Social media accounts
5. Cell phone records
6. Door lock records
7. Information from 300 witnesses
8. A.G. work schedule
9. First account of shooting vs. 72 hours later.
10. Camera system of apartment.
11. Did A.G. have a Security passkey for SouthSide apartments? Was she working there?
12. Complaints from A.G about BSJ?

Okay, I am sure that there is more...the fact that even after the grand jury, the evidence and information lock down on this case makes me think that there is a lot more to the story, and that is why a charge of murder was made. Especially when A.G. was fired after the police Chief kept supporting her.

I bet that none of the evidence will be released. They will continue to say it is confidential until the trial...and I bet that there won't be a trial. I think that a plea agreement will be made. And BSJ's family will get a big check, and A.G. will probably do prison time.

 

[jjenny]

I don't see plea happening in this case at all.
Prosecution and defense here are miles apart.

 

[jjenny]

Respectfully have a completely different POV. The DA would not be going for murder without some solid evidence. It is my *speculation* that the discovery process will show she had filed noise/pot smell, etc. complaints with the management against him. Time will tell.

Amateur opinion and speculation

DA wouldn't not be going for murder without solid evidence? I beg to differ.
Or there would be no "not guilty" verdicts.

 

[rosesfromangels]

DA wouldn't not be going for murder without solid evidence? I beg to differ.
Or there would be no "not guilty" verdicts.

The outcome has so many, many dependencies - the composition of the jury, the "performance" of the Prosecutor and Defense Attorney, the demeanor and testimonies of plaintiffs, defendant, and witnesses; the strength of the forensic data, et. al.

This is a high profile case, and will serve as a bellwether for future cases with similar dynamics. For these reasons and more, I believe there is exceptional preparation and scrutiny. If the D.A. is moving forward with murder, I believe he/she has got the goods.

We see this one differently, and that's what these threads are all about; discussing from a 360 view. Thanks for helping me test my thinking! We'll see how this plays out.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[tmar]

We, meaning the lawful citizens in N. Texas, believe there will be a fair and just trial IF an impartial jury is empaneled and we believe A.G. will most likely be convicted of Murder. Her story is a made up lie to cover her keister, falls so flat, and Botham Jean was an innocent man inside his own property.

Just as Texas is a " Stand Your Ground" state, we are as strongly opposed to a just person being murdered on what is " their ground".
He was unarmed. He did absolutely nothing to provoke this renegade attack.

I, and my friends, believe she will be found guilty. We've thought that from the start, and after I talked to a Texas State Policeman ( they work closely with the Texas Rangers out in the field but are not in the same division of LE), I am personally convinced that she is an example of police using excessive force and killing with no concern for human life or the right of another. It's my perception after the one on one conversation that she will be an example for all who follow as how never to intimidate or hurt innocent gentle people, regardless of gender, age, race, religion or any other factor.

Everyone tells me " He was a gentle man". It breaks my heart. We want a full measure of justice served here in Texas. That's all I know to say. We are united, and I believe a jury of her peers will be as well.

I agree with you, in all your points.
How can a jury believe her rubbish?
MOO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I am elated to know this woman is going to be tried for murder. She must be held acountable.

As most posters know I am a very strong supporter of police officers.

Imo no one is repulsed any more than all of the countless devoted and totally dedicated police officers who serve with honor putting their very lives on the line day in and day out all across our nation.

Imo they know some in our society tend to paint with a wide brush when it comes to all of our police officers nationwide. When a so called officer goes rogue like this woman did.. good officers cringe fearing they will all be labeled the same. I know many police officers and they have told me this many times.

Wrong is wrong and what she did to this totally innocent man who was in his own home doing absolutely nothing wrong means justice must be served as he so deserves.

God continue to with his family.

Jmo

 

[mickey2942]

I know the law, and that a murder charge means "intent". When AG pulled out a gun, that was "intent". No mistake there. She was fully aware, focused, and deliberately shot him with her gun, not once, but twice. Grabbing for a gun, is premeditation. She had a split second to think, and instead of retreating and calling the police, she decided to shoot to kill.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I know the law, and that a murder charge means "intent". When AG pulled out a gun, that was "intent". No mistake there. She was fully aware, focused, and deliberately shot him with her gun, not once, but twice. Grabbing for a gun, is premeditation. She had a split second to think, and instead of retreating and calling the police, she decided to shoot to kill.

I think she went there to arrest him for the pot due to the smell, or some similar motive. I think she felt empowered by her badge and apartment rent-a cop status. She was a loose cannon, and an innocent man paid the ultimate price. In return, she must pay her debt to society, and attempt to make reparations to his family.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[LadyL]

delete

 

[rosesfromangels]

Dallas officer who killed black neighbor also shot a man in 2017 incident

Here is a repost of the first incident

 

[Suwannee]

I am not versed in legal matters. If there is anyone on WS who may be and would kindly offer his/her advice, I have a question:

Since the indictment on the manslaughter charge against ARG was handed up as “NACT” (no action taken), is there a legal precedent which allows for “manslaughter” as a lesser-included offense to be added during the trial? As it stands, this grand jury chose this action, which, I believe, means that charge will never be on her records; with a “no bill” indictment, the charge would remain on her records until a grand jury were to indict her - I don’t believe there is a statute of limitation on these types of felonies in Texas.



For the Jean family, I pray she will be convicted legally, but, mainly, of the heart. During the presser yesterday, they said they are praying for her so that she may understand the pain she has inflicted. What gracious parents! What a world it would be if we admitted our faults and were mature to live with the consequences?

 

[Falcon500]

I think she went there to arrest him for the pot due to the smell, or some similar motive. I think she felt empowered by her badge and apartment rent-a cop status. She was a loose cannon, and an innocent man paid the ultimate price. In return, she must pay her debt to society, and attempt to make reparations to his family.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Very amateur. Are you claiming that she could smell the marijuana from the parking garage?

A “loose cannon”? Because she shot a guy in a justified shooting once before?

“Empowered by her rent a cop status”? A police officer is an officer 24 hours a day. Not just when on duty.

 

[luvhockey]

I can't find anywhere the amt of bail. She bailed out on the manslaughter charge but wouldn't a murder charge carry a much much higher amount?

 

[Jax49]

I can't find anywhere the amt of bail. She bailed out on the manslaughter charge but wouldn't a murder charge carry a much much higher amount?

I'd have thought so but bond was transfered.

http://courtecom.dallascounty.org/publicaccess/
The case number is F1800737.

View attachment 157865
View attachment 157866

 

[Suwannee]

Very amateur. Are you claiming that she could smell the marijuana from the parking garage?

A “loose cannon”? Because she shot a guy in a justified shooting once before?

“Empowered by her rent a cop status”? A police officer is an officer 24 hours a day. Not just when on duty.

I won’t go into ARG’s mindset just prior to the deadly event as I don’t understand what drives an individual to come to this level of action in a situation involving the protection of personal property because, in essence (IMO), that seems to be her narrative. Here are the Dallas Police Dept. Regs. concerning using deadly force.

http://www.dallaspolice.net/reports/Shared Documents/General-Order-906.pdf

1. If she were an on-duty (24/7) Dallas Police officer, protection of property is not a valid reason for using deadly force. (906.01D)
   
   
2. If she were an off-duty (not a 24/7) Dallas Police officer, the Dallas Police Dept. restrictions concerning the use of deadly force are not applicable to her as she would be deemed a private citizen. (906.02H)
   

I don’t know the totality of verbal commands given to Botham Jean that were uttered by ARG (as per the arrest affidavit), but if it comprised her identifying herself as an officer of the law, would not that constitute her falling under the regulation that stipulates no use of deadly force to protect property?


I would hope the only reason I would ever find it necessary to take another person’s life would be to protect my children from eminent death directly caused by an evil individual. It’s that simple for me. But, I am much older and maybe a tad wiser than ARG….possessions just don’t make a difference in the grand scheme of things.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Very amateur. Are you claiming that she could smell the marijuana from the parking garage?

A “loose cannon”? Because she shot a guy in a justified shooting once before?

“Empowered by her rent a cop status”? A police officer is an officer 24 hours a day. Not just when on duty.

You are correct, I am an amateur when it comes to law enforcement procedures. Since you are a verified expert, we can all benefit from your analysis of this tragic incident, so thank you for your responses.

Motive: Yes, I speculate the smell of pot might have permeated in to her unit, or the apartment complex asked her to investigate. The records will reveal whether that is accurate. Same goes for sound nuisance.

Loose cannon: She was standing at a doorway with a bright red entry mat on a different floor level. It is my opinion and speculation that she didn’t end up there by error. There are mixed reports in the media as to what, if anything, was shouted prior to shots fired; this will be critical at trial.

I think the deceased was annoying to the accused. Perhaps she felt he interfered with the peaceful enjoyment of her residence, and/or her ability to rest and refresh. I think she lost her temper, and the result we know.

I’d be interested on your take of whether proper procedures were followed, based on what has been released to the public.

Thank you for your valued response.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[iluvmua]

Is manslaughter even considered?

Because if they only charged her with murder, then she will walk.

The Texas Rangers got it right the first time.

It would not suprise me if they charged her with murder just to appease the family and the masses.

Jmo.

 

[mickey2942]

The instructions for the jury will be murder and manslaughter charges. Guyger is still charged with manslaughter, and is out on $300,000 bond for both.

So, the murder finding from the grand jury appeased the masses.

This situation reminds me quite a bit of the O.J. trial in a way, Los Angelos was still hyped up over the Rodney King incident, and I was often in LA for work that year, it was a tinderbox. People were jittery about the outcome of the trial, that if OJ was found guilty, incidents of civil unrest would occur. Most people who lived in the area hoped it would end peacefully. The jury was hardly unaware of this issue.

No doubt, if the Grand Jury had not returned a finding of murder, there was potential for citizens protesting the outcome. Not unlike the issue of Dallas police Chief "deciding" to fire Guyger, because the protests were not going to stop until Guyger was terminated.