GUILTY TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #6

[mickey2942]

I am very much looking forward to seeing the prosecution closing arguments. I think it's going to be very impactful. I just find myself wondering what the heck the defense can really say.

They are probably going to hit home on the defense that AG thought she was in her home, and saw an intruder. It is not against the law to defend your home from an intruder. That other people, under oath, said that they also went into other people's apartments. That AG was exhausted....from her 13 hour shift.

1. She was in no danger from Botham Jean, ever. There is no evidence of that. He wasn't even standing when she shot him.

2. If other people went into the wrong apartment, they didn't kill anyone.

3. AG wanted to party with her BF, after her "long" day.

Every single thing that the defense says, the prosecutor can hammer home the inconsistencies.

 

[gitana1]

A question for those of you that have followed the proceedings. Is it the prosecutions stance that she mistakenly entered the wrong apartment? tia

Yes. But that it wasn't reasonable to do so.

 

[gitana1]

I never said she went there intentionally to harm him. I said she knew she was at the wrong door and proceeded anyway. Big difference between the two. I have been consistent in my position. I gave her the benefit of the doubt until she got to the door and realized it was unlocked. The state has charged murder so they have taken that tack. They don’t believe her mistake of fact/self-defense position. Neither do I.

Hmm. I don't think I understand. So why would she go in and shoot him anyhow do you think?

And yes, the state don't believe her mistake of fact defense. But they do believe she made a mistake. They said that in their opening.

 

[blue22]

They are probably going to hit home on the defense that AG thought she was in her home, and saw an intruder. It is not against the law to defend your home from an intruder. That other people, under oath, said that they also went into other people's apartments. That AG was exhausted....from her 13 hour shift.

1. She was in no danger from Botham Jean, ever. There is no evidence of that. He wasn't even standing when she shot him.

2. If other people went into the wrong apartment, they didn't kill anyone.

3. AG wanted to party with her BF, after her "long" day.

Every single thing that the defense says, the prosecutor can hammer home the inconsistencies.

Actually none of them said they went into the apartments. They all said there was something that made them realize they were on the wrong floor. I think that really hurt the defense.

 

[gitana1]

They are probably going to hit home on the defense that AG thought she was in her home, and saw an intruder. It is not against the law to defend your home from an intruder. That other people, under oath, said that they also went into other people's apartments. That AG was exhausted....from her 13 hour shift.

1. She was in no danger from Botham Jean, ever. There is no evidence of that. He wasn't even standing when she shot him.

2. If other people went into the wrong apartment, they didn't kill anyone.

3. AG wanted to party with her BF, after her "long" day.

Every single thing that the defense says, the prosecutor can hammer home the inconsistencies.

Yes and I don't think any of those people actually entered the wrong apartment. They tried to.

 

[gitana1]

Actually none of them said they went into the apartments. They all said there was something that made them realize they were on the wrong floor. I think that really hurt the defense.

That's what I thought had been posted.

 

[blue22]

Yes and I don't think any of those people actually entered the wrong apartment. They tried to.

The one woman who was flighty, giggling, and loving the attention said something about a smelly bad toothed guy being in her apartment. I didn't believe her, though. Of course, he didn't get shot.

 

[rosesfromangels]

"....AG wanted to party with her BF, after her "long" day...."

Respectfully snipped for focus and commentary response. Killing a sweet, accomplished and beautiful man was horrific enough. But now add all the sexting with a married man....well...I don't think that jury of 8 out of 12 women is going to receive that well. Being "the other woman" just adds to the loathing and contempt they must already have for this Defendant. This woman has left a large wake of destruction behind her. Frankly, pretty hard to fathom, and I can't even begin to understand how Botham's family must feel. God help them through this.

This is truly a sickening case - but aren't they all. Sigh...

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[bwt42]

Yes. But that it wasn't reasonable to do so.

So, an unreasonable mistake versus a reasonable mistake?

 

[blue22]

So, an unreasonable mistake versus a reasonable mistake?

The whole crux of the case is whether her reaction of killing the victim was reasonable or not.

 

[mister happy]

That's a good point. That's why I think she's an angry hot head. The social media post of her that I saw showed someone who relished the thought of killing someone who messed with her.

Dangerous person to have a gun.

BBM. I guess the prosecution wasn't allowed to show those memes that Guyger left on her Pinterest account. To me, they revealed her mindset. In the James Fields trial, a meme of a car plowing into a group of people was shown. Fields had posted it on his Instagram a few months before his Charlottesville crash, and it looked eerily similar to the iconic photo of the actual crash. IMO, memes can tell a lot about the individual who posted them.

 

[bwt42]

The whole crux of the case is whether her reaction of killing the victim was reasonable or not.

Thanks, but that's not what I asked.

 

[mickey2942]

Respectfully snipped for focus and commentary response. Killing a sweet, accomplished and beautiful man was horrific enough. But now add all the sexting with a married man....well...I don't think that jury of 8 out of 12 women is going to receive that well. Being "the other woman" just adds to the loathing and contempt they must already have for this Defendant. This woman has left a large wake of destruction behind her. Frankly, pretty hard to fathom, and I can't even begin to understand how Botham's family must feel. God help them through this.

This is truly a sickening case - but aren't they all. Sigh...

Amateur opinion and speculation

I agree. AG does not come off as sympathetic. She comes across as arrogant, entitled, narcissistic, and not the least bit repentant.

AG is not a "likeable" person. More men on the jury probably would have helped.

 

[Weki]

I think I’ve already indicated my suspicions about her motives. And I’m not the only one who thinks there’s a connection between what she did and her relationship with Rivera. State laid the crumbs for this in their opening.

But even if you don’t buy that connection.

It is simply unbelievable that she didn’t realize she was at the wrong door. It is unbelievable that she didn’t pause and notice she was at the wrong door when she realized the door was unlocked. It is simply unbelievable that she would go in and decide to confront a burglary when she has no clue what awaits her on the other side. There could’ve been 10 men with AK-47s in there. It’s simply unbelievable that if she truly feared for her life she wouldn’t seek cover when she had ample opportunity to do so. It is unbelievable that he posed a threat to her when she had the element of surprise on her side and he had no weapon. It is a downright lie that she shot him from the threshold and that he was coming towards the door and “ducked.”

In his opening the prosecutor said initially he felt sorry for her when he heard the 911 call. Then he didn’t. He was parading that red mat around for a reason. That red mat is like a big stop sign that would’ve clued her in that she was at the wrong door. There were too many signs that she ignored, which make it highly improbable that she didn’t know she was at the wrong door.

 

[blue22]

Thanks, but that's not what I asked.

You asked unreasonable mistake vs reasonable mistake. I said that is the crux of the whole case. The prosecution does not believe that she intentionally sought him out to kill him.

(Meaning, there was no relationship and she didn't get home saying she was going to go up there and kill him. I don't believe they have ever disputed she could have gone on that floor by accident. They even mention it in the opening statement. That was a reasonable mistake. Her reaction to that mistake was not. That's what they are trying to prove.)

 

[gitana1]

I'm re-watching pros. openings...jic you want to too, here is a link:

defense:

I'm going to bump this so we can all be on the same page. The state does absolutely say she thought she was entering her own apartment. Starting around minute 20:00 through min. 26:30.

"She has to go down two very long hallways now, to get to what she thinks is her apartment. But in fact, she's walking toward Bo." Min. 21:50.

"She walks past 16 different apartments and fails to register the number 4 on any one of them....She walked past 16 of those, without recognizing them. Well, maybe the explanation for that is she doesn't look straight ahead when she's walking, she looks down...she's on the wrong floor. Doesn't register. Whatever has been on her mind after that conversation has consumed her attention entirely. And she's missing obvious things...Now one of two things happened. Either Amber Guyger immediately assumed there was an intruder inside what she thought was her apartment and she decided to go in and engage, or number two, she completely failed to recognize the reality that she failed to lock her door that morning and like everything else, she just keeps going on, missing all of these clues."

He then goes on to state that either she knew there was an intruder in her apartment beofre she entered or after. And that she departed from her training.

At no time has the state offered the theory that she somehow knew it wasn't her home and entered anyhow.

 

[gitana1]

So, an unreasonable mistake versus a reasonable mistake?

Yes. That's right. if it was a reasonable mistake, that would be a defense. Example of reasonable mistake? She entered into an apartment right next door to hers, same floor, looks identical, except for a flower pot that had been in front of her door which was somehow moved in front of the neighbor's by accident.

Unreasonable? Wrong floor, parking garage level is totally different, long hallway with brightly lit apartment numbers that all indicate NUMBER FOUR, apartment has a large, bright red floor mat while hers does not. Her home has a large baker's rack in front of the entry. His does not. Etc.

 

[Weki]

If you believe she thought it was her apartment then you must also believe Botham Jean was coming towards her in an aggressive manner while she stood on the threshold. And the trajectory of the bullet can be explained by him ducking when he saw the gun.

State alleges that he was shot while getting up from the couch. By this, state is basically saying he was not a threat to her at any point. No weapon, sitting on the couch. Also, they are alleging she walked all the way into the apt. She didn’t notice the smell of marijuana or the furnishings/mess, they also allege.

She’s lying about his aggressive posture and where she shot him. Why is she lying? Why didn’t she render aid?

 

[wary]

If you believe she thought it was her apartment then you must also believe Botham Jean was coming towards her in an aggressive manner while she stood on the threshold. And the trajectory of the bullet can be explained by him ducking when he saw the gun.

State alleges that he was shot while getting up from the couch. By this, state is basically saying he was not a threat to her at any point. No weapon, sitting on the couch. Also, they are alleging she walked all the way into the apt. She didn’t notice the smell of marijuana or the furnishings, they also allege.

She’s lying about his aggressive posture and where she shot him. Why is she lying? Why didn’t she render aid?

BBM

If I believe she thought it was her apartment, that in no way, shape, or form implies that I need to believe that Mr Jean was coming toward her in an aggressive manner. The two things have nothing to do with each other.

 

[Weki]

BBM

If I believe she thought it was her apartment, that in no way, shape, or form implies that I need to believe that Mr Jean was coming toward her in an aggressive manner. The two things have nothing to do with each other.

Ok so then you believe she just walked in and shot him for no reason?

This is my point - if you believe she genuinely thought it was a burglary and walked in to confront the threat then you have to believe she shot him only because he posed a threat. If you don’t believe her story about what happened when they confronted each other, then her whole story falls apart.

Hence, my belief, she knew she was at the wrong door to begin with.

ETA: Unless you believe she had a right to go in and shoot no questions asked. Which is not what she says. So she’s lying and you have to ask why. If she shot him and he posed no immediate threat even if she believed it was her apartment, then it’s murder too.