TX - Four dead, 17 injured as train strikes wounded veterans parade float in Midland

[jjenny]

was there a curve nearby so that the train could not be seen until it was right on them?? it seems like it took so many by surprise. I just don't understand that unless there was limited view of the tracks

I don't think so. Looking at the photos appears to be pretty straight. I think the sirens in the parade might have prevented the driver from paying attention to the sounds made by the train. Also, it appears to me the first truck passed, but didn't leave room for the second truck to pass all the way through.
Presumably the second truck should have waited until he had room to go all the way through.

 

[SwampMama]

This is just heartbreaking. So much tragedy. We live in a small rural town where trains run thru (but don't stop). Some crossing have gates, lights and warnings, some don't. I have heard of enough tragedies to know never to stop on the tracks, always look even if there are signals present and remember that a train can't stop.

So many prayers for the families and victims.

 

[redheadedgal]

city manager "declines" to answer whether group had proper permit to hold event

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/11/17/west-texas-train-crash/1711397/

 

[redheadedgal]

NTSB: float driver was warned: signals were activated before the float crossed the tracks

The NTSB said 20 seconds before the collision, bells and lights activated on the crossing. 13 seconds before the crash happened, the gates started to descend. Then, 12 seconds prior, the front of the truck crossed in front of the train.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4987000...ntsb-float-driver-was-warned-collision-train/

 

[danzn16]

NTSB: float driver was warned: signals were activated before the float crossed the tracks

The NTSB said 20 seconds before the collision, bells and lights activated on the crossing. 13 seconds before the crash happened, the gates started to descend. Then, 12 seconds prior, the front of the truck crossed in front of the train.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4987000...ntsb-float-driver-was-warned-collision-train/

:what:

 

[hollyblue]

This is just heartbreaking. So much tragedy. We live in a small rural town where trains run thru (but don't stop). Some crossing have gates, lights and warnings, some don't. I have heard of enough tragedies to know never to stop on the tracks, always look even if there are signals present and remember that a train can't stop.

So many prayers for the families and victims.

When I was little we had a family friend by marriage who lost her husband of little over a year by a train. They just had the black and white crosses up back then and he had his car radio cranked up and couldn't hear the train. There were other trains just parked that block his view of the one coming on the far side. It's much safer now with all the bells and whistles...and many communities have built walking overpasses for pedestrians...and school children, but tragedies still occur at times. This is going to become one big legal mess when everything settles down.

Per the articles there have been 10 previous "accidents", but thank heavens no deaths at this same crossing. People in a hurry and trying to beat the gates. I don't think it would have mattered in this case, but am curious since the speed limit was changed from 40 mph to 70 if the warning gizmos had been changed to reflect that....as the one guy mentioned in the article. 20 to 30 seconds is not long at all.

I hate to asked this but I'm not clear on it... were all the soldiers in wheelchairs or unable to jump?

 

[The Farm]

was there a curve nearby so that the train could not be seen until it was right on them?? it seems like it took so many by surprise. I just don't understand that unless there was limited view of the tracks

I do not know for sure but there are not many curves out in West texas. Pretty wide open and straight.

 

[danzn16]

I do not know for sure but there are not many curves out in West texas. Pretty wide open and straight.

That's what I thought. I'm still surprised how everyone didn't see the train coming until it was right on them. I know many of the veterans were wounded so it wouldn't have made much of a difference but it would have made more since for the wives or people watching the period to have be away of it at least a minute before it hit.

Now this information about the truck passing after lights and the arms going down on the tracks is absolutely crazy. What would possess someone to do that?!?!

 

[jjenny]

The truck was already on the tracks when the arm came down.
It sounds to me that he couldn't move fast enough because the other truck was in front of it. These trucks have really long beds on which these people were sitting. The whole set up doesn't appear to be safe to me-people sitting in chairs on top of truck bed. Sounds like the flashing lights did activate before the truck moved onto the tracks, but the arm didn't come down yet.

 

[Betty P]

The truck was already on the tracks when the arm came down.
It sounds to me that he couldn't move fast enough because the other truck was in front of it. These trucks have really long beds on which these people were sitting. The whole set up doesn't appear to be safe to me-people sitting in chairs on top of truck bed. Sounds like the flashing lights did activate before the truck moved onto the tracks, but the arm didn't come down yet.

This is the cause of so many rail/highway accidents - people pulling out onto a crossing when traffic on the other side stops.

Here's a good rule for drivers to follow when approaching a RR crossing:

First, always slow down when approaching a grade crossing so you can focus on what's going on.

Second, even if the crossing lights are not flashing, look across the tracks and make sure there is sufficient room for your vehicle on the other side. Never begin crossing the tracks if you can't see a space on the other side that is large enough to fit your car/truck/RV, etc.

People make the mistake of pulling onto the tracks when their lane on the other side already has a vehicle in it. Even if traffic on the other side is moving when you begin to cross, that traffic can stop, leaving you sitting on the tracks.

Don't be in a big hurry when you approach a rail crossing. Take the time to slow down or stop to be aware of the surrounding traffic.

 

[danzn16]

The truck was already on the tracks when the arm came down.
It sounds to me that he couldn't move fast enough because the other truck was in front of it. These trucks have really long beds on which these people were sitting. The whole set up doesn't appear to be safe to me-people sitting in chairs on top of truck bed. Sounds like the flashing lights did activate before the truck moved onto the tracks, but the arm didn't come down yet.

This is what I heard to from witness accounts but if you read the link posted a few posts above from msnbc it saws LE viewed video from the train and it said the truck passed after the lights activated and after the cross arms came down.

 

[jjenny]

This is what I heard to from witness accounts but if you read the link posted a few posts above from msnbc it saws LE viewed video from the train and it said the truck passed after the lights activated and after the cross arms came down.

The arm came down onto the bed of the truck. The truck had already moved into the railroad tracks by the time the arm came down. LE account seems to suggest that same thing as witness accounts do. If the arm came down in front of the truck, the truck would not be able to pass.

 

[danzn16]

NTSB: float driver was warned: signals were activated before the float crossed the tracks

The NTSB said 20 seconds before the collision, bells and lights activated on the crossing. 13 seconds before the crash happened, the gates started to descend. Then, 12 seconds prior, the front of the truck crossed in front of the train.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4987000...ntsb-float-driver-was-warned-collision-train/

Am I understanding this wrong then? 20 sec prior lights activated, 13 sec prior arms started to descend, 12 sec prior to crash trucks front crosses in front of train. So the truck starts going across the tracks 8 sec after the lights and bells warned off a train and 1 sec before the arms started to fall. Yes the arms would descend on the trailer if he started going across at that time but he still had advanced warning that the train was coming. This LE account and video account conflicts with witness account saying the truck was sitting on the tracks. But maybe witnesses just saw right before the accident and saw that the truck was on the tracks and the arms came down on the trailer which would be the same as what is stated here. This is main stream media stating LE findings. If you have another article that says different please share or if I am reading this wrong please explain what I am getting wrong here.

A tractor trailer driver receives training to not sit on the tracks. To not cross until there is space for the entire trailer to pass. There is no excuse here. And everyone who has any type of license knows not to disobey railroad lights, bells, and cross arms, especially with 24 people as passengers. I do not understand this!

 

[redheadedgal]

driver "severely traumatized", under the care of a physician, is receiving hate mail and hasn't spoken with police yet but has cooperated with a blood sample...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...sh-driver-identified-20121120,0,4627193.story


despite the report by the NTSB most witnesses are saying the float was already on the tracks when everything activated and it had nowhere to go... reports (comments on local tv stations' fb pages) also exist that a policeman was waving the float through the crossing just before it was hit...

ok, i'm confused...

 

[Sonya610]

I hate to asked this but I'm not clear on it... were all the soldiers in wheelchairs or unable to jump?

No, none of them look paralyzed based on how they are sitting and the position of their legs. If the cab was on the tracks maybe the folks sitting on the chairs in the back didn't immediately realize the danger?

 

[jjenny]

If you ask me, he shouldn't have been on the tracks if he had no room to clear them, regardless of when everything was activated.
As for people not jumping off, they didn't have all the time in the world to jump off even if they could. Clearly it all happened quickly once the truck got onto the tracks.
We are talking about seconds.
Some people might not be able to react that fast.

 

[Confusion]

I hate being one of those "blame everybody!" people, but why would anyone have a parade route that crosses railroad tracks in the first place?

 

[danzn16]

driver "severely traumatized", under the care of a physician, is receiving hate mail and hasn't spoken with police yet but has cooperated with a blood sample...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...sh-driver-identified-20121120,0,4627193.story


despite the report by the NTSB most witnesses are saying the float was already on the tracks when everything activated and it had nowhere to go... reports (comments on local tv stations' fb pages) also exist that a policeman was waving the float through the crossing just before it was hit...

ok, i'm confused...

Ok this makes sense how one would continue across the tracks if you were being motioned across by an officer. I don't see how a report could be wrong if they have video though. Eyewitness accounts are often wrong so I'm not surprised by that. I do feel very bad for the driver. Although it may have been his fault, it was absolutely an accident and I'm sure he is traumatized and feels truly awful. I do not know why anyone would send hate mail!!!

 

[danzn16]

No, none of them look paralyzed based on how they are sitting and the position of their legs. If the cab was on the tracks maybe the folks sitting on the chairs in the back didn't immediately realize the danger?

I have thought this since the beginning. I see no wheelchairs on this float. Granted we can only see the veterans.

 

[Tuffy]

I do not know for sure but there are not many curves out in West texas. Pretty wide open and straight.

I'm not very good at linking to Google maps, but...

http://goo.gl/maps/Ypgkm

This is the intersection where the accident happened. The crossing is "at grade" plus there are lights and crossing gates. The landscape is flat, and the train tracks appear to run in a straight line.

I don't think I would say that the crossing or tracks could be at fault here.

Twenty-one seconds before the crash, the crossing's southbound traffic signal turned green.

At 20 seconds, the crossing's warning lights began to flash and the bells sounded. At the same time, the lead parade float's trailer crossed the southern edge of the track's rail and made it through.

Thirteen seconds before impact, the crossing arms began to come down.

One second later, the trailer carrying the veterans began crossing the track, its front tires rolling over the northern edge of the rail.

Three seconds later, the train engineer blasted his horn, stretching out the blare for four seconds.

Seven seconds before impact, one of the crossing arms crashed into a flagpole on the parade float.

Two seconds later, the engineer hit the emergency brakes.

At 4:36 p.m., the 80-car train slammed into the trailer at 62 mph. It took more than a minute to come to a complete halt.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-midland-train-crash-warnings-20121117,0,1589904.story

I really believe this to be driver error.

Another point to drive home about train track crossings - notice that it took the train 1 full minute to stop. The train always wins in these types of wrecks. The train can't swerve to avoid a vehicle and they cannot stop fast enough. It's up to the drivers on the road to be extra cautious before crossing tracks.

I cross a set of tracks almost daily during my commute. These tracks are at an intersection. Almost daily, I see cars pull onto the tracks while waiting for the red light. :what: There is a train that comes by around 7:30 - 8:00 am! WTH are these people thinking?