TX - Hailey Dunn, 13, Colorado City, 27 Dec 2010 - #53

[cluciano63]

I'm not sure that Billie is a person who would be a good candidate for anyone trying to take too much from how she phrases things. I think she thinks too much about what she is trying to get across (don't look at SA) and not enough time on how she is saying what she does say pertaining to Hailey. I think the phrases she comes out with (Hailey is not in the house) are beyond odd, but not sure they really mean anything more than...Hailey is not in the house.

 

[tehcloser]

What is "Intelligence going backwards " ?

Working the crime backwards from a certain point.

 

[TorisMom003]

It was brought up sometime before (please don't ask me by who or where on here it was) that BD maybe saying "in MY house" because that is how some parents word things when talking with their children, or something to that effect. I have two daughters, ages 13 and 9, I only use the "in MY house" when one of my daughters are in trouble. I have never said to them when I want them to come home from somewhere that they need to be "in MY house". That wording to me does not sound right when talking to a child that you think may have run away or was kidnapped, that wording to me sounds like the child is in trouble and is being told that while they live "in MY house" they will follow my rules.

Just MOO

 

[nervous_nellie]

Is it anything like "In a backwards sort of way"?:waitasec:

my dad is a retired police detective and he has always told me that is how he works a case, that he works backwards from a last incident or seen time...fwiw...

 

[concernedmother]

Working the crime backwards from a certain point.

I googled and I think your right.

 

[tehcloser]

I can't completely blame PK, when the reporting is horrible too.

 

[Hatch]

From that MSM link.... there are some other good things in there, too.

Kampfer said that police are aware of the witnesses' accounts but that law enforcement has not been able to corroborate them. Regarding the naming of other people of interest, Kampfer said officials are following several leads, including two leads involving people. But, Kampfer said, identifying the other people whom investigators are looking into might result in those people fleeing or tampering with evidence. He said fear of potential retribution against the family by those named is a concern, as is the possibility someone might do something to harm Hailey or destroy evidence if they knew police were focusing on them.
snip http://www.reporternews.com/news/20...o-city-teen-provides-copy-ti/?partner=popular

 

[gibby207]

OT-- Clu, I really enjoy your parade of kitties every day!

OT: Me too... appropriately in the snow, I see... lol

 

[tehcloser]

So, SA going to Dunn to see GM and then on to Big Spring by way of I-20 puts him back in the ping area of the home. And if my mapping is right, the time would be close to said pings. However, there are minutes unaccounted for...and a straight trip would have put him in the Big Spring area at 7:35, which is 2:03 hours before the pings place him there.

 

[SmoothOperator]

As I said earlier stayed up all last night and this morning sifting thru ALLOT.. affidavits..few other statements from LE/PK..original statements and alibis..Billie's presser word for word..as well as her timeline..among lots of other info big and small that we've gleaned..saved..and discussed over the past month.. I posted the mapping of Shawn's newest timeline of the 27th..and I've posted a list of some of the discrepancies btwn LE and Billies presser/Timeline.. but I've also just went over allot of the everyday..little things as well..things that we do not know but that would speak volumes..

One example of what I've been thinking is this..let's go by Billies latest version of events on the 27th..

6:20am- Billie peeks in a dark bedroom lit by a TV and pacifies herself that Hailey is there in the bed{this done as a reaction of not seeing Hailey in her normal sleeping spot..the Living Room couch)
6:30am- Billie's ride arrives and she leaves the house to go to work..

In this version of events this means that Hailey was alone in the home at 1804 Chestnut from 6:30am until 3:00pm when Shawn arrives back home from Big Spring..
That is 8 and half hours of Hailey at home..as far as we know ALONE..

Among several issues that I in my mind have questioned/debated..one of them is somethiing as simple as this..

A 13 yr old girl home alone for an entire day..while off school for Christmas vacation.. Even if she was one who tended to sleep in late while off from school she still when finally awakening would definitely eat IMO most likely atleast 2 "meals"{brkfast/lunch..just to label them}..BUT WITHOUT A DOUBT AT LEAST ONE "MEAL" FOR CERTAIN DURING THAT 8 AND HALF PERIOD OF TIME WHILE HOME ALONE..
Would most not agree?

Things such as this small everyday occurance would IMO yield such strong evidence{one way or the other}..

I mean I know with my 13 yr old during Christmas break he eats us outta house and home..lol{and stays as thin and lean because he's go..go..go}..and in an 8 hr period my kitchen would have definite evidence pointing to most likely 4 "mini-meals"..and even though he has been taught how to clean up after himself..he nevertheless is still a 13yr old kid..so even if he was to do exactly as taught my dishwasher would easily show definite proof of those 4-5 mini-meals..more often tho his dishes only make it to just the sink where he stacks them up..lazily not taking the time to just load them in dishwasher..

I'm sure u see my point now.. Billie's kitchen would have shown definite signs if Hailey had indeed been there for that 8 and half hour period of time..

AND IF IT WERE VACANT OF ANY SIGN OF A MEAL IN THOSE 8 AND HALF HOURS{meaning it would either have Billie/Shauns bowls from brkfast ..or the night before..just whenever/whichever of them would have been the last to eat something from the kitchen}..Does that make sense?

It certainly does to me.. Because even if one was to argue that Hailey may have only eaten junk that needed no plate..utensils..etc..well there would still be evidence of this..along with a normal amount of drinks consumed..

Wouldn't this be something Billie would be able to answer or no?

Again am just typing as I'm still just thinking on all the many different aspects..views..issues..etc..
Racking my brain for anything that will narrow this down and find Hailey..

We all know there is no perfect crime..and I'm confident that there is much we haven't a clue of..its just trying to have patience when we are talking about finding a 13 yr old little girl.. thats alot to ask IMO..{the patience part}

 

[OneLove]

It was brought up sometime before (please don't ask me by who or where on here it was) that BD maybe saying "in MY house" because that is how some parents word things when talking with their children, or something to that effect. I have two daughters, ages 13 and 9, I only use the "in MY house" when one of my daughters are in trouble. I have never said to them when I want them to come home from somewhere that they need to be "in MY house". That wording to me does not sound right when talking to a child that you think may have run away or was kidnapped, that wording to me sounds like the child is in trouble and is being told that while they live "in MY house" they will follow my rules.

Just MOO

BBM

I can picture this very well! And I believe it may be possible that term had been used in discussing the "living room", such as maybe "in MY house you will NOT take over MY living room", hence the media comment directed to Hailey of missing her in HER living room. She seemed to me to show a bit more emotion during that statement. Guilt? True remorse? If so, I really do feel empathy for her.

ETA: Nevermind. No empathy until she cooperates in the fullest to bring Hailey home. MOO
Lots of empathy reserved for her later though if it is shown that she had no part in Hailey's disappearance and that SA did NOT molest Hailey at ANY time.

 

[belimom]

....

THe Point of my rambling story is that even credible well intentioned witnesses can get things wrong. NONE of the other people were able to corroborate my friends memory of the football game.
That is why I doubt this ladies sighting as well. I think others would have seen her and the other kids. And I don't think those kids could lie and keep it under wraps for this long if they had been with HD that night. Just MOO..

Bouncing off your post about the witnesses, something was triggered deep in my brain from grad school: retroactive interference.

When you have a memory (seeing Hailey walk down the street) and then something happens after that memory (Hailey disappears on a certain date), the new event can interfere with the old memory (such as timing). In trying to assist, someone may ask themselves, "Did I see Hailey that day?" and into their brain pops a scene they have seen at other times - Hailey walking down the street. It could be that day or it could be superimposed into other memories that day and forever and now on (erroneously) recalled in that person's mind as being that day.

Googling doesn't return the same in-depth definition as my doctoral level psychology textbooks (I'm finding much more simplified definitions) but I did find this (it's a link to a document not a webpage so beware):

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...uNypBg&usg=AFQjCNHUkitNNZrmVdBjbQSkwy-vL5JPfQ

One cognitive process that is believed to be involved in false memories is interference. Retroactive interference occurs when new learning affects old learning (Chandler & Fisher, 1996). Retroactive interference can have devastating influences on eyewitness testimony; similar information occurring after the crime can have detrimental effects on the memory of the original crime (Chandler & Fisher, 1996). Chandler & Fisher (1996) also explain how social demands can interfere with crime information. Overhearing others’ account of the crime can interfere with the way a person remembers their own version of the crime (Chandler & Fisher, 1996).

My own person anecdote: we got a new family room when I was 13 and started hanging stocking there instead of our old den. For the life of me, I cannot recall one single Christmas now in our old den even though I had 13 of them. Even when I see pictures of the stockings, etc, in the old den, my brain automatically places them in the new family room.

 

[KMouse]

Couldn't agree anymore, hiding behind the lawyer is not a good sign.

SA could have done a presser himself with a written statement that has been approved by his lawyer. But no....

 

[TxLady2]

I wonder how much of a response she's going to get from now on, since she began her press conference by criticizing the editorial process of the folks she called together. mo

Just guessing but I would think she is talking more about the NG show than local press.

 

[x_files]

SA could have done a presser himself with a written statement that has been approved by his lawyer. But no....

It would be the right thing to do to support his grieving gf BD and to help
her missing daughter that he professes to love.

 

[gibby207]

Bouncing off your post about the witnesses, something was triggered deep in my brain from grad school: retroactive interference.

When you have a memory (seeing Hailey walk down the street) and then something happens after that memory (Hailey disappears on a certain date), the new event can interfere with the old memory (such as timing). In trying to assist, someone may ask themselves, "Did I see Hailey that day?" and into their brain pops a scene they have seen at other times - Hailey walking down the street. It could be that day or it could be superimposed into other memories that day and forever and now on (erroneously) recalled in that person's mind as being that day.

Googling doesn't return the same in-depth definition as my doctoral level psychology textbooks (I'm finding much more simplified definitions) but I did find this (it's a link to a document not a webpage so beware):

I can attest to this as I have blocked out a year or so of my childhood and now have impressioned memories of events during that time because my family told me those events. Those pseudomemories (as I like to call them) have no feeling behind them, even tho it was a very traumatic time for me. It's hard to explain but I make an impression of other times that I was doing similar things as you said that goes along with the story line that my family tells me and voila - fake gibby memory. I figured this out when I told my family member "I think I remember now" and described my memories, which were wrong. lol And the no emotions thing was to protect my dissociation I guess.... Prolly deeper and more than yawl wanted to know about ol' gibby. LOL

I should go back into psychology. It's fascinating to me.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

At some point early on in this case, I spoke of a case that happened "back home" where a teenage girl went missing and her parents were vilified until some kids happened upon the girl's body. Her parents and LE had to more or less "guess at" a DOD to put on her headstone. I've stood at this child's grave and mourned for her and the things she will never experience: first love, graduation, first job, first child, first grandchild.

A man was tried, convicted and sentenced to death. Just now I opened my online paper from "back home" to find this:

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20454855&BRD=1867&PAG=461&dept_id=124334&rfi=6

AG has been on my mind throughout this whole HD ordeal. How many hours have been put into finding this child? How many people wake up thinking about her, praying for her and fearing for her? How many years will it take to bring her justice? And then how many more tax dollars will be spent defending the person responsible?

We need to have special laws in place when it comes to crimes against our children...from the moment one goes missing, straight through to sentencing and beyond. We are a tolerant nation, but our stand needs to be that when it comes to harming children...there is no tolerance!

 

[CONNIEHU]

So, SA going to Dunn to see GM and then on to Big Spring by way of I-20 puts him back in the ping area of the home. And if my mapping is right, the time would be close to said pings. However, there are minutes unaccounted for...and a straight trip would have put him in the Big Spring area at 7:35, which is 2:03 hours before the pings place him there.

Okay Im trying to follow you...so are you plotting him leaving work at 6:10 going to Dunn to GrandM house between 6:25&6:35 and no one home so goes on to Big Spring to mothers house through CC to pick up I-20?

 

[epiphany]

IMO, Billie still doesn't want to answer the tough questions, and she will no longer allow the tough questions to be asked of her. She's made her statement. Now she should stick to it and focus on H.

 

[missy1974]

A 13 yr old girl home alone for an entire day..while off school for Christmas vacation.. Even if she was one who tended to sleep in late while off from school she still when finally awakening would definitely eat IMO most likely atleast 2 "meals"{brkfast/lunch..just to label them}..BUT WITHOUT A DOUBT AT LEAST ONE "MEAL" FOR CERTAIN DURING THAT 8 AND HALF PERIOD OF TIME WHILE HOME ALONE..
Would most not agree?

I snipped for length. I have to agree with you. I have kids, and you always know when they have been in the kitchen lol I was thinking about this today too, and of course, I don't think we will get any answers from BD anytime soon on any of it. Another thing I was thinking, I have a teenage daughter, now 18, but at 13, I knew when she had gone out anywhere by the looks of my bathroom, and what was on the counter (hairspray/brush/make-up), or what was not put away. Just a thought.
I hope LE asked her some of these questions in those first interviews with her.