TX TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 #2 *NAME NOT RELEASED*

[rosesfromangels]

Which would make her parents and other relatives even older - that's what worries me. The chance we have of a family member coming forward, recognizing her, us finding them, etc is dwindling with time just by them getting older and natural aging increasing the chance of them passing away and losing a possible link of identifying her. Staying positive and optimistic though

IMO, a familial match with Ancestry or similar is the best chance of solving this. I do my best to stay respectful, but I struggle with understanding how these Does (especially the young ones) don't have family seeking them. Or does she...

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[cherrymeg]

IMO, a familial match with Ancestry or similar is the best chance of solving this. I do my best to stay respectful, but I struggle with understanding how these Does (especially the young ones) don't have family seeking them. Or does she...

Amateur opinion and speculation

I think DNA is the best bet. If she was in foster care or she wasn't in a stable home it's possible she slipped through the cracks. If she was living with grandparents or relatives and maybe didn't have parents or siblings in the picture so there wasn't as much pressure to find her. JMHO. That doesn't mean cousins, aunts, uncles, friends don't remember her. I think DNA could really work.

 

[detective24-7]

IMO, a familial match with Ancestry or similar is the best chance of solving this. I do my best to stay respectful, but I struggle with understanding how these Does (especially the young ones) don't have family seeking them. Or does she...

Amateur opinion and speculation

I struggle with it too. I can't comprehend in Doe cases how they can be unidentified/unclaimed for so long. It breaks my heart. Not every child is fortunate enough to have family or parents that care and love them unconditionally. She could be a product of an irresponsible/unloving parent. I grew up with an alcoholic father who was always home/around but given the scenario I ever went missing or ran away, I don't doubt for a second it would take him weeks or months to care or notice I was gone and by that time he would most likely have been "meh, if she's been gone this long without calling or coming back, i'm sure she's found a place"

 

[Paul B.]

My sister says one tip drilled into her from a young age was "if he puts you in the boot, kick out the tail lights.

 

[sunnynz]

My sister says one tip drilled into her from a young age was "if he puts you in the boot, kick out the tail lights.

And these days all cars legally have to have a lever inside the boot/trunk

 

[TmmEye]

Thinking about you sweetie <3

 

[janne]

Sorry if I am moving things slightly OT, but I have often wondered about a link between the case of WCJD and the unsolved murder of Janelle Johnson in Wyoming in 1983.

This is a case that has frequently been included on lists of the Great Basin murders - there is a WS thread, although no mention of Janelle on it.

There's very little available online about this case, (I will link to a couple of sources that I found at the bottom of this post) however there appear to be several similarities in the respective killers MO:
- both victims were apparently abducted while travelling alone and could have been viewed as vulnerable
- both victims were sexually assaulted with an instrument
- bite marks on the shoulders of both victims
- both victims killed by manual strangulation (although there is a suggestion in one source that Janelle Johnson may have been strangled with a belt or ligature of some sort)
- both victims bodies were recovered without their clothing and personal effects

There are a couple of significant differences that may rule out a serial offender - the distance between the 2 casescase starters is extreme, in addition, it appears that Janelle may have been bound by her killer and attempts at least were made to conceal her body, whereas WCJD's body was fairly brazenly deposited by her killer or killers - these are quite significant differences in methodology, however it's possible the killer, if the cases were to be linked, may have refined their MO or become more sophisticated over time.

In the case of Janelle LE had what they viewed as a strong suspect, who later relocated to Houston.

The 2 sources with the most info on Janelle Johnson are annoyingly quite contradictory in some aspects:
Janelle Johnson
Wayback Machine

 

[MadMcGoo]

WOW! First off, I want to commend all of you for the yearssssss you’ve dedicated to Ms WCJD!! I’m not sure where to start, as my mind is racing after spending about 2 weeks deep diving into her case! I’ll try! Let’s see...I’ve been working on a Jane Doe out of Brookhaven MS (1989)...she has a very small thread on WS and about the same amount of information everywhere else I’ve looked. Somehow, and I DO know, just can’t process at the time, her case led me to WCJD’s. Which have both somehow led me to HLL and a Jane Doe from my hometown (which I only heard of a few months back). There is also a thread here on that one but I can not think of how it’s titled! I want to say it has “Hale County, TX or Plainview” in the title, but I have commented on that one as well. Nonetheless, I’ve tried speed reading through this VERY informative thread and done some FB browsing and a few (thousands of) hours browsing through newspaper archives, etc. There are too many similarities and too many things I’ve come across while researching these cases (maybe a few more, esp linked to the Killing Fields) for it to be coincidence. If so, I will humbly eat crow and do a little better next time! (Unlikely) I am also extremely familiar with the Texas Prison System and had a few thoughts about the Ellis Unit angle. Like I said, I do NOT know where to begin, I know a fresh set of eyes is great, but it’s also (LBH) a little frustrating getting a fresh Chatty Cathy who repeats and questions the same things from thread 1, comment 67!

Briefly, some things that have come up in at least 2 or more of the cases I mentioned:
-Late model 70s light blue sedan (thought to be Chrysler Córdoba
-Panty hose (alleged by convicted murderer in MS Jane Doe to have been NEW in the package—there is VERY GOOD reason to believe this was a false confession and the murder involved 2+ people...but Jane was strangled with new panty hose)
-MS Jane Doe was found at a roadside stop by a truck driver (unknown name)
-MS Jane Doe was thought to have been traveling with a carnival/fair
-MS Jane Doe was found nude w/only one men’s tube sock
-MS Jane Doe was allegedly picked up in NOLA/MS-LA border
-WCJD was first spotted by truck driver named Rhodes (who IIRC was traveling through/to or from Friendswood TX- Laura Smither, whose Killer was convicted, happened to be kidnapped from Friendswood and was found in the area of the Killing Fields)
-I have read/heard in more than one place that Rhodes had a photo/s of I BELIEVE WCJD and a couple of more (I will have to check my files, so don’t quote me on that)

I’m exhausted and can’t thibk of what else I’ve come up with! I apologize if I sound completely delusional...it is because I am! !!! But if anyone wants to pick my brain about some of these things , I can probably explain a little better!! (There is also a prison theory I want to look a little more into that is quite interesting)!

I’m really invested in WCJD now, and hope that I can help get her closer to her family!! Thanks again for all of your hard work!!!

ETA: Bite mark!!!

•MMcG•
{Someone Somewhere knows Something}

 

[MadMcGoo]

Ok, I’m at the usual crossroads here.....follow the path more likely to lead to a killer, or follow the clues that could possibly lead to an identification. They’re both long roads and if anyone can give me some experienced insight on which direction to go, it would be VERY MUCH appreciated! I’ve read through more of the the 1st thread (in depth) on WS...but I’ve still got a few questions as to some details (which I may have overlooked or they may not be there). I will say I have spent quite a bit of time on the girl’s home(s) and prison theories. I apologize if these have been mentioned previously, but I do think they are not completely insignificant.
When I first read of WCJDs case I did not think of this, but once I realized the time frame and exact location, was the first thing I thought of. Huntsville has several state prisons and they have changed names and custody demographics at least a few times since the 60’s/70’s. One of the largest attractions especially in the 70/80’s was the Texas Prison Rodeo! People traveled from all over the country to watch. Coincidencentally, the rodeo was only held every Sunday in OCTOBER. ALSO, men were not the only inmates allowed to participate in the rodeo, and inmates from the other units were also allowed to participate. So, while I was stuck on Jane possibly looking to reunite with a family member or connect with a secret lover, when I remembered the Rodeo, my entire thought process went haywire. That leaves dozens of more possibilities. Another huge thing going on at the time was the filming of “Urban Cowboy” (I can only hope everyone has seen it ). Filming, for the most part, took place in Pasadena but there were scenes filmed all over. This most definitely attracted many people! I’d venture to say it was mostly locals or close to local, but the area would have been a “tourist attraction” at the time. I’ll leave that info here for now, I can elaborate more if need be, but I’ll see if anyone thinks it’s worth looking into more!! ::fingers crossed::

•MMcG•

 

[rosesfromangels]

The rodeo info is super interesting!
Thank you!

 

[3llecia]

I’ll leave that info here for now, I can elaborate more if need be, but I’ll see if anyone thinks it’s worth looking into more!! ::fingers crossed::

•MMcG•

I know you wanted guidance picking a path, but I think both are super interesting angles.

I’m busy the next few days but commenting so I remember to come back and help.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I know you wanted guidance picking a path, but I think both are super interesting angles.

I’m busy the next few days but commenting so I remember to come back and help.

The rodeo info is super interesting!
Thank you!

THANK YOU BOTH! I agree, both are interesting, and I’ll probably end up looking into both . There is something about the prison though...I have never been able to shake! I’m going to be digging into that more, and I know several people who have worked for the State for a long time, some may have even been working IN Huntsville at the time, but I’m going to see what archived records TDCJ has available online first! One thing I would like to know, if it is known, would be the direction she was traveling IN TO town...or if anyone has determined unequivocally the general area/town she may have been coming from. That would help me as I rummage through Rodeo history. The arena and Rodeo have ALWAYS been in the same location! That has never changed, but even the name of the “Ellis” unit was once something different. I’ve visited Huntsville on business, and even for me, the exact locations and names of the different units became extremely confusing! So, when I Google the locations TD, the Unit names are even different from the last time I was there...innnnn... 2010/2011 I believe. So knowing a general route or direction of travel for Jane would help tremendously! Thanks for responding!

Another thing I read was a couple of stories and accounts of teenagers being in the “Roloff Homes”, which had several locations....TX, MS, LA, to name a few.....who were transferred to a different home for either “disciplinary” reasons or various other reasons. A few of them were even transferred out of state and several of them became pregnant (VERY young) and were immediately separated from the child after birth. This was another bit of information I thought may be worth looking into. My MS Jane Doe was thought to have Downs Syndrome, or a similar condition and possibly a ward of the State. (Who knows which state). So, there’s some more to ponder!

•MMcG•

 

[Bit of hope]

Ok, I’m at the usual crossroads here.....follow the path more likely to lead to a killer, or follow the clues that could possibly lead to an identification. They’re both long roads and if anyone can give me some experienced insight on which direction to go, it would be VERY MUCH appreciated! I’ve read through more of the the 1st thread (in depth) on WS...but I’ve still got a few questions as to some details (which I may have overlooked or they may not be there). I will say I have spent quite a bit of time on the girl’s home(s) and prison theories. I apologize if these have been mentioned previously, but I do think they are not completely insignificant.
When I first read of WCJDs case I did not think of this, but once I realized the time frame and exact location, was the first thing I thought of. Huntsville has several state prisons and they have changed names and custody demographics at least a few times since the 60’s/70’s. One of the largest attractions especially in the 70/80’s was the Texas Prison Rodeo! People traveled from all over the country to watch. Coincidencentally, the rodeo was only held every Sunday in OCTOBER. ALSO, men were not the only inmates allowed to participate in the rodeo, and inmates from the other units were also allowed to participate. So, while I was stuck on Jane possibly looking to reunite with a family member or connect with a secret lover, when I remembered the Rodeo, my entire thought process went haywire. That leaves dozens of more possibilities. Another huge thing going on at the time was the filming of “Urban Cowboy” (I can only hope everyone has seen it ). Filming, for the most part, took place in Pasadena but there were scenes filmed all over. This most definitely attracted many people! I’d venture to say it was mostly locals or close to local, but the area would have been a “tourist attraction” at the time. I’ll leave that info here for now, I can elaborate more if need be, but I’ll see if anyone thinks it’s worth looking into more!! ::fingers crossed::

•MMcG•

Interesting info. Do you know the exact location where the Rodeo was held? Here is the calendar of October 1980.

Kalender oktober 1980, een maandkalender met weeknummers | Weeknummers.com

5, 12, 19 and 26 October were a Sunday. 31 was a Friday, the 1sth of November was a Saturday when she was found.

Do you know of other events she would have wanted to visit?

 

[MadMcGoo]

Interesting info. Do you know the exact location where the Rodeo was held? Here is the calendar of October 1980.

Kalender oktober 1980, een maandkalender met weeknummers | Weeknummers.com

5, 12, 19 and 26 October were a Sunday. 31 was a Friday, the 1sth of November was a Saturday when she was found.

Do you know of other events she would have wanted to visit?

I Had not even thought to look at a calendar for that particular year! Wow. That changes things a little, then...unless she was also unaware. The rodeo arena has always been at the Huntsville Unit, which we have always referred to as The “Walls” Unit. The exact address is:
815 12th Street
Huntsville,TX 77342
The arena is connected to it. Last time I saw it was used for parking and maybe a portion for housing, but the location has never changed. The Walls is located almost literally in the center of town (or so it seemed). It was a very odd location for a prison IMO. I have not mapped out each location, but when I looked up Ellis a few days ago I was a little taken aback by what the search generated. I don’t doubt that Jane was asking for directions to the Ellis, as it was known/located in 1980, but had that detail not been known, it would have been the last of the units I would have thought she’d be looking for directions to...if that makes sense! Im glad you pointed out the calendar of that year! I am pretty positive they never strayed from that schedule! I’ve been going through local newspapers from that time and haven’t seen anything that would indicate a change either. One thing that might be interesting to note...TDCJ has a “newspaper publication” produced by the inmates through the Windham Schools, called “The ECHO”... it’s been around for as long as the Rodeo, I’m sure. This has definitely thrown another wrench in things!....although I still believe there very well may be a connection to the prison!

As Always,
•MMcG•

 

[MadMcGoo]

I’ve been looking through all the PM photos and maybe it’s time for me to take a break, but does anyone else see a “mole/freckle/discoloration” on her (from the viewer’s eye) right ear? Where the lobe connects to her face??? ETA: the base of her earlobe

 

[mcluver23]

Discussion of prison rodeos Thread 1, July 8, 2017.

 

[detective24-7]

WOW! First off, I want to commend all of you for the yearssssss you’ve dedicated to Ms WCJD!! I’m not sure where to start, as my mind is racing after spending about 2 weeks deep diving into her case! I’ll try! Let’s see...I’ve been working on a Jane Doe out of Brookhaven MS (1989)...she has a very small thread on WS and about the same amount of information everywhere else I’ve looked. Somehow, and I DO know, just can’t process at the time, her case led me to WCJD’s. Which have both somehow led me to HLL and a Jane Doe from my hometown (which I only heard of a few months back). There is also a thread here on that one but I can not think of how it’s titled! I want to say it has “Hale County, TX or Plainview” in the title, but I have commented on that one as well. Nonetheless, I’ve tried speed reading through this VERY informative thread and done some FB browsing and a few (thousands of) hours browsing through newspaper archives, etc. There are too many similarities and too many things I’ve come across while researching these cases (maybe a few more, esp linked to the Killing Fields) for it to be coincidence. If so, I will humbly eat crow and do a little better next time! (Unlikely) I am also extremely familiar with the Texas Prison System and had a few thoughts about the Ellis Unit angle. Like I said, I do NOT know where to begin, I know a fresh set of eyes is great, but it’s also (LBH) a little frustrating getting a fresh Chatty Cathy who repeats and questions the same things from thread 1, comment 67!

Briefly, some things that have come up in at least 2 or more of the cases I mentioned:
-Late model 70s light blue sedan (thought to be Chrysler Córdoba
-Panty hose (alleged by convicted murderer in MS Jane Doe to have been NEW in the package—there is VERY GOOD reason to believe this was a false confession and the murder involved 2+ people...but Jane was strangled with new panty hose)
-MS Jane Doe was found at a roadside stop by a truck driver (unknown name)
-MS Jane Doe was thought to have been traveling with a carnival/fair
-MS Jane Doe was found nude w/only one men’s tube sock
-MS Jane Doe was allegedly picked up in NOLA/MS-LA border
-WCJD was first spotted by truck driver named Rhodes (who IIRC was traveling through/to or from Friendswood TX- Laura Smither, whose Killer was convicted, happened to be kidnapped from Friendswood and was found in the area of the Killing Fields)
-I have read/heard in more than one place that Rhodes had a photo/s of I BELIEVE WCJD and a couple of more (I will have to check my files, so don’t quote me on that)

I’m exhausted and can’t thibk of what else I’ve come up with! I apologize if I sound completely delusional...it is because I am! !!! But if anyone wants to pick my brain about some of these things , I can probably explain a little better!! (There is also a prison theory I want to look a little more into that is quite interesting)!

I’m really invested in WCJD now, and hope that I can help get her closer to her family!! Thanks again for all of your hard work!!!

ETA: Bite mark!!!

•MMcG•
{Someone Somewhere knows Something}

Hi there, i've found all your posts in here super insightful and interesting so far. I have a quick question - when you say that Rhodes possibly had photo(s) of WCJD (and others), are they of her alive or PM when she was found dead?

 

[daisy6441]

@MadMcGoo Are you saying the man who found her had pictures of her? There was also a murderer with the name Rhodes who took pictures of his victims and traveled through this area. Henry Lee Lucas was the one who took credit for WCJD. He also claimed to have killed Orange Socks who was left like WCJD naked with jewelry. The thing is that when I was looking for information about WCJD I found other cases in Conroe (just down the road) where women where found murdered wearing only their jewelry. Some times a piece of clothing was found near them but for the most part they were dumped with little to nothing. It seems odd to me that all these girls were murdered and all the people responsible decided to take their clothing but leave possible valuables on them.

 

[carbuff]

I think MadMcGoo might be conflating the serial killer truck driver and the truck driver who found her?

 

[MadMcGoo]

@MadMcGoo Are you saying the man who found her had pictures of her? There was also a murderer with the name Rhodes who took pictures of his victims and traveled through this area. Henry Lee Lucas was the one who took credit for WCJD. He also claimed to have killed Orange Socks who was left like WCJD naked with jewelry. The thing is that when I was looking for information about WCJD I found other cases in Conroe (just down the road) where women where found murdered wearing only their jewelry. Some times a piece of clothing was found near them but for the most part they were dumped with little to nothing. It seems odd to me that all these girls were murdered and all the people responsible decided to take their clothing but leave possible valuables on them.

Hi there, i've found all your posts in here super insightful and interesting so far. I have a quick question - when you say that Rhodes possibly had photo(s) of WCJD (and others), are they of her alive or PM when she was found dead?

I APOLOGIZE! I see how that was very confusing. Carbuff is correct, I was describing details of the actual convicted serial killer Robert Ben Rhoades. I just found it interesting that the truck driver who happened upon WCJD was also named Rhodes (not positive on the spelling of the latter). Both of whom had ties to Friendwood. I do not know if WCJD was a victim of RBR, and I don’t know if the trucker who found her on November 1st is in ANY way connected to RBR. I was just pointing out the last names. I have been trying to find my files on RBR, and of course when I need them, they’re nowhere to be found (yet), but I know investigators found photos in his apartment of different women. I know there was one photograph of one of his victims that you will easily find by just Googling his name, but I can’t recall if they released any other photos, as it’s been said they were much more difficult to make out. But he kept his victims for days or weeks, so the photos of the girls were taken at different times during captivity. All were taken of them while they were still alive.

I haven’t found very much information on the truck driver who found WCJD. I don’t know that they paid him much mind at the time. Or they determined that he literally did just happen to see a body off of the side of the road and called police. I’m not sure.

Yes, there are several cases that appear to be similar to WCJDs in the immediate area and even throughout the state. I need to finish reading the first thread on here before I throw out many other theories, because I hadn’t even read that the prison rodeo had been discussed....but I am almost through reading! I’ve got several opinions of Henry Lee Lucas, but the one that stands out the most is that he was a horrible liar! So, I’ve got to finish catching up here first before I speculate more on a possible connection. lol I hope that clears up my previous post a little! I see how it was extremely confusing!

•MMcG•