TX TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 #2 *NAME NOT RELEASED*

[Paul B.]

I think modern self-defence tips give a false sense of complacency and feminist justice to women. Yes, with modern techniques, he'll probably be caught (qualifying word "probably"). But if he kills you, you'll still be dead and dead people can't come back.

 

[BlackCloud]

I think modern self-defence tips give a false sense of complacency and feminist justice to women. Yes, with modern techniques, he'll probably be caught (qualifying word "probably"). But if he kills you, you'll still be dead and dead people can't come back.

Even if they catch him now (I hope he's dead but maybe he's alive...) this poor girl couldn't come back...
Killers always win. You can punish them but you can't delete what they did...so sad...

 

[cherrymeg]

I think modern self-defence tips give a false sense of complacency and feminist justice to women. Yes, with modern techniques, he'll probably be caught (qualifying word "probably"). But if he kills you, you'll still be dead and dead people can't come back.

Pretending these people don't exist won't keep you safe. Self defense doesn't promise safety or make you feel any safer it's supposed to prepare you to fight back and give yourself a better chance of survival. Carrying pepper spray, a taser or a gun doesn't make you safe. They can be used against you and you have to know how to use them and have them on hand if you are attacked. Murderers and rapist don't give time outs so you can find your weapon.
I want to know what makes a person willing to kill me tick. It might not save me or there past victims, but figuring these guys out might save other people.
What would you suggest women do?

 

[cherrymeg]

Even if they catch him now (I hope he's dead but maybe he's alive...) this poor girl couldn't come back...
Killers always win. You can punish them but you can't delete what they did...so sad...

It's tragic but I wouldn't say killers win. It's not a win or lose situation. If they need to murder to feel something, or rape and these are the moments they feel powerful they're pathetic. Ted Bundy had sex with his victims corpses. He couldn't stay away even after they were dead. I don't see him as a winner or even in control. Families of victims deserve answers. They can't get their loved ones back but they should at least find out what happened to them and who killed them. No answers about a missing family member must be hard. You would always wonder if they were alive or not.

 

[daisy6441]

I decided to write down the physical descriptions from different sources. Most list her as 5' to 5'6" and 105-120 pounds. There was an article that quoted the detective as saying she was 108 pounds and 5'6". Sounds like she was a pretty skinny girl. Her sweater being described as "over sized" could be due to how thin she was or it could be that they were hand-me-downs.

 

[T rex]

We're they trying to humiliate and degrade her.....? If so, was this personal....someone she knew? Maybe her original ride came back for her....

You could be on to something about someone coming back for her but it wouldn't necessarily have to be her original ride. It would help if LE could identify the people she talked to in the parking lot. Which way did they go when they pulled out of the parking lot? Was it in the same direction as WCJD was walking? If so, why wouldn't they have given her a ride? Maybe they didn't want to be seen leaving with her and came back for her. She didn't walk that road for long or there would be an eyewitness account of it.

 

[Izzy77523]

I worked at the Hitching Post in 2000... This story is well known. Huntsville is a prison town and the rumours in Huntsville were that it was a prison guard.... There were more prison guards at the Hitching Post between shifts than truckers, and a young girl would trust a prison guard. Just food for thought.

 

[Izzy77523]

I want to elaborate on my nights of working at the hitching post. Keep in mind I was there in the year 2000. There were lots of lot lizards, also known as prostitutes.. Guards and truckers would solicit them. As an employee there I saw a lot, and being that I was about 19/20 I was pretty aware of my surroundings. When I was hired as the grave yard waitress I was told that if I left the building for any reason during my shift I would be fired. The older waitresses would tell me stories about girls being assaulted in the parking lot and that was enough to scare me. ALSO, in the mornings, inmates would be brought there to sometimes catch a bus after being released. The list of suspects is huge... Truckers, prison guards, inmates, cops.... Travelers. Nobody pays attention to the parking lot. Also next door was a gas station that serviced 18 wheelers... Some not so savory mechanics worked there. I know because I often got the cat calls. The hitching post is a stop along your way, nothing fancy, just a place to eat, shower, fuel up, and maybe get a girl in your cab....

 

[cherrymeg]

I worked at the Hitching Post in 2000... This story is well known. Huntsville is a prison town and the rumours in Huntsville were that it was a prison guard.... There were more prison guards at the Hitching Post between shifts than truckers, and a young girl would trust a prison guard. Just food for thought.

That is terrifying. What would bring her there if it really was the prison?

 

[Izzy77523]

Being the daughter of an inmates it hasn't always been difficult to get in to visit someone. Not sure if a minor would've been able to visit an inmate without adult supervision though, so perhaps she was at least 18.. I may do some digging later to see if a minor could've visited a inmate without ID here in Texas.I am willing to bet that most inmates now have DNA on file, I wonder if they match Jane Doe's to inmates DNA.

 

[T rex]

I want to elaborate on my nights of working at the hitching post. Keep in mind I was there in the year 2000. There were lots of lot lizards, also known as prostitutes.. Guards and truckers would solicit them. As an employee there I saw a lot, and being that I was about 19/20 I was pretty aware of my surroundings. When I was hired as the grave yard waitress I was told that if I left the building for any reason during my shift I would be fired. The older waitresses would tell me stories about girls being assaulted in the parking lot and that was enough to scare me. ALSO, in the mornings, inmates would be brought there to sometimes catch a bus after being released. The list of suspects is huge... Truckers, prison guards, inmates, cops.... Travelers. Nobody pays attention to the parking lot. Also next door was a gas station that serviced 18 wheelers... Some not so savory mechanics worked there. I know because I often got the cat calls. The hitching post is a stop along your way, nothing fancy, just a place to eat, shower, fuel up, and maybe get a girl in your cab....

Nobody pays attention to the parking lot? I guess that was in response to my post, however the witnesses not only gave a description of the car WCJD got out of but they also knew that she had talked to other people and described their vehicles too. So obviously at that time someone was paying attention to the parking lot. Now, I just wanted to get that out of the way first because I really love your posts. They are insightful and informative. It really puts things into perspective. I hope you will keep them coming.

 

[Izzy77523]

Nobody pays attention to the parking lot? I guess that was in response to my post, however the witnesses not only gave a description of the car WCJD got out of but they also knew that she had talked to other people and described their vehicles too. So obviously at that time someone was paying attention to the parking lot. Now, I just wanted to get that out of the way first because I really love your posts. They are insightful and informative. It really puts things into perspective. I hope you will keep them coming.

Not at all in regards to your post. I'm just saying that so much goes on in that parking lot that luckily there was a witness, I know after my years of working there I became immune to the working girls and couldn't pick one from the other in a line up. It really is sad. I didn't mean to downplay your post.

 

[Izzy77523]

Over the year or two I was there I had a few cops come by asking if I had seen someone or recognized a photo of someone. Unfortunately I never did recognize anyone, and truth be told, most the truck drivers were family folks. They would pull out pictures of their wives and children, tell me they were trying to hurry to make it back in time for some event. I maybe had one creep out of 100 customers, but the prison guards were often crude and thought themselves above the law. I'm in no way anti prison guard, but the morning group I would get at 4 a.m. were an odd bunch. I have no doubt she was picked up at the hitching post, and unfortunately she was the unlucky girl for the day. Several girls would stop me on my way to My car at 7 am and ask for money or tell me they were "just" trying to get back home. I'm older now, I wasn't as compassionate back then, plus I was a little afraid of anywhere outside the building, so much so that the dishwasher we called TC would walk me to my car. The owner of the restaurant was real protective of his employees but he didn't have compassion for the working girls either.... We were told to kick them out unless they were buying food and not approaching other customers. I'm not sure how things are ran around the time WCJD was murdered. This case has bothered me for 20 years.

 

[T rex]

Not at all in regards to your post. I'm just saying that so much goes on in that parking lot that luckily there was a witness, I know after my years of working there I became immune to the working girls and couldn't pick one from the other in a line up. It really is sad. I didn't mean to downplay your post.

Over the year or two I was there I had a few cops come by asking if I had seen someone or recognized a photo of someone. Unfortunately I never did recognize anyone, and truth be told, most the truck drivers were family folks. They would pull out pictures of their wives and children, tell me they were trying to hurry to make it back in time for some event. I maybe had one creep out of 100 customers, but the prison guards were often crude and thought themselves above the law. I'm in no way anti prison guard, but the morning group I would get at 4 a.m. were an odd bunch. I have no doubt she was picked up at the hitching post, and unfortunately she was the unlucky girl for the day. Several girls would stop me on my way to My car at 7 am and ask for money or tell me they were "just" trying to get back home. I'm older now, I wasn't as compassionate back then, plus I was a little afraid of anywhere outside the building, so much so that the dishwasher we called TC would walk me to my car. The owner of the restaurant was real protective of his employees but he didn't have compassion for the working girls either.... We were told to kick them out unless they were buying food and not approaching other customers. I'm not sure how things are ran around the time WCJD was murdered. This case has bothered me for 20 years.

No problem at all Izzy. There's probably plenty of things in my posts that could be downplayed. I was just pointing out that a witness may have seen some other small detail that could be significant.

So you think that she never made it out of the parking lot? That's interesting.

FYI: Sometimes you have to watch out for those dishwashers too. I'm not saying anything bad about TC but you reminded me of another case.
In the late 60's Lee Roy Martin was known as the Gaffney strangler. At the textile plant where he worked some of the women were getting Lee Roy to walk them out to their cars at night because they feared that they could become the next victim.

 

[Izzy77523]

No problem at all Izzy. There's probably plenty of things in my posts that could be downplayed. I was just pointing out that a witness may have seen some other small detail that could be significant.

So you think that she never made it out of the parking lot? That's interesting.

FYI: Sometimes you have to watch out for those dishwashers too. I'm not saying anything bad about TC but you reminded me of another case.
In the late 60's Lee Roy Martin was known as the Gaffney strangler. At the textile plant where he worked some of the women were getting Lee Roy to walk them out to their cars at night because they feared that they could become the next victim.

TC was a young black guy, but still a set of eyes so I wasn't alone. The cooks were two little old ladies, the hostess was about my age, so we were a harmless group. However the cook that worked like two nights a week to relieve the old ladies was a pervert, just harmless vulgararity is like to think... Don't think he was around in the 80s nor fit the right age bracket to have been a suspect. I don't know if she made it out the parking lot, she obviously did, but where she was actually murdered, no clue where to even start speculation on that. I'm not opposed to it being a cop, a mechanic next door, a trucker, a employee at the Hitching post in 1980, a correctional officer, a inmate recently released or just some weirdo passing through. There are so many characters that frequent that place because its on the way out of or into town. The parking lot for truckers is the size of a Wal-Mart parking lot, so we are talking 50 truckers a night just parked... Maybe 15 correctional officers in there for coffee before their shift at 4 a.m. police officers patrolling for lot lizards or just mingling with each other... That poor girl could've been approached by someone that's from Canada for all we know.

 

[sunnynz]

TC was a young black guy, but still a set of eyes so I wasn't alone. The cooks were two little old ladies, the hostess was about my age, so we were a harmless group. However the cook that worked like two nights a week to relieve the old ladies was a pervert, just harmless vulgararity is like to think... Don't think he was around in the 80s nor fit the right age bracket to have been a suspect. I don't know if she made it out the parking lot, she obviously did, but where she was actually murdered, no clue where to even start speculation on that. I'm not opposed to it being a cop, a mechanic next door, a trucker, a employee at the Hitching post in 1980, a correctional officer, a inmate recently released or just some weirdo passing through. There are so many characters that frequent that place because its on the way out of or into town. The parking lot for truckers is the size of a Wal-Mart parking lot, so we are talking 50 truckers a night just parked... Maybe 15 correctional officers in there for coffee before their shift at 4 a.m. police officers patrolling for lot lizards or just mingling with each other... That poor girl could've been approached by someone that's from Canada for all we know.

This is such good detail, painting a picture of what the hitchin post is like. I always pictured it as a small place with a small parking lot. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Izzy77523]

One thing that causes me to believe it was most likely a traveler/trucker that was a suspect... She was brutally assaulted. She was not just raped, she was attacked viciously...that kind of violence and assault on her body is pure evil and not something that would cause one to think it was the first and only assault committed by this suspect. That leads me to believe it wasn't someone local because had it been, could they remain dormant after such a crime?

 

[Izzy77523]

This is such good detail, painting a picture of what the hitchin post is like. I always pictured it as a small place with a small parking lot. Thanks for sharing.

It was rather large, with a convenient store next door/mechanic shop for 18 wheelers. I would say the restaurant had 40 plus tables... Showers truckers could pay for in the back.. A changing room... There was open field all around it... Remember I worked there 20 years after the murder but believe me, no updates had taken place, it was like taking a step back in time when I worked there. It was on the north side of town heading towards hours of nothing until you got to Dallas... Huntsville is North of Houston, so it was like a stop between Dallas and Houston. North of Huntsville outskirts is where it was, closest prison was the Holiday unit, maybe 2 miles away.

 

[Izzy77523]

Huntsville hitching post - Google Search

 

[Izzy77523]

I feel stupid to keep adding to this, but want too get all my thoughts out.... Maybe she was heading to the Ellis Unit to see someone. They said nobody at the Ellis unit recognized the girl, BUT.... inmates get moved all the time and in Huntsville there are 12 prisons in the surrounding area.... Did they ask at other prison units?? I can name a few off the top of my head... Holiday, Ferguson, walls... It seems like an unlikely "made up story" to be going to see an inmate at a prison unit unless there was truth to it. Let's say she was 15-20 in 1980, that inmate would still most likely be around her age and alive today. Any way to look up inmates from the county of Aransas Pass and see if any inmates close in age were incarcerated in Huntsville at the time of her murder... I know the list may be long but TDCJ surely could supply that information. Narrow it down to ones who had also been in the Ellis unit... But not when the murder occurred. Long shot, but surely... It could be done. I also doubt they really showed it to every inmate at Ellis. I'm just rambling but I don't think that part of the story is fake.