TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels, 4 Feb 2011 - # 2

[katydid23]

Sarx,

Great Post. Thanks for trying to help us all consolidate and organize the possible scenarios. I have been trying to figure out a way that someone from inside could have taken the child out without others seeing and without being caught soon after. Especially since the time window was so narrow.

One scenario I keep coming back to is someone going out for a quick smoke, and the child follows unnoticed. What could a perp do in 10 minutes to conceal the child before moving them later?

Could it just be something straight forward and simple? All 3 of our cars have pretty full trunks. blankets, clothing, odds and ends. I think someone could conceal an unconscious toddler under beach towels and jackets in their trunk for long enough while people first begin their search. And then it is usually frantic and chaotic. Everyone would be running around and perhaps EVEN DRIVING AROUND and searching the streets. Could someone pretend to search, and drive away with him in their trunk--and hide him at that time?

THe biggest problem would be if they were still there when the dogs showed up. But maybe they had left already?

 

[trigger]

Good points, sarx.

I agree, an abduction on a cold, dark night is highly unlikely.

If Joshua wandered off, he has to be in a hidden location because like I said, the buzzards would've found him by now if he were out in the open.

I don't know what to think about family involvment. We're not just talking 2 people, we're talking a collusion of a half dozen + or -, plus a six year old boy that was present.

Doesn't it bother you that none of these other people present have been interviewed? That seems so odd to me.

The family all have been interviewed and were asked to take LDT

Relatives of a missing New Braunfels toddler said police are asking them to undergo polygraph tests in an effort to locate the 18-month-old boy.

According to Jerome Davis, Joshua's grandfather, that also includes administering polygraph tests to everyone who lives in the household.

Davis made the comments as he arrived at the police station Monday morning to submit to the exam, which police often use to detect inconsistencies in statements made by witnesses or suspects in crimes.

Davis said in addition to him and Joshua's parents, two other adults have been asked to submit to polygraphs. Penshorn refused to comment on this, saying he did not want to reveal too many details about the investigation.

http://www.ksat.com/news/26777491/detail.html

 

[Inspector Gidget]

I still think he was taken by someone in that house that day.One of the
people left and came back it was stated Does anyone know who that was?
Mmm I wonder why they left ,to go the store maybe?

 

[Trident]

So, whilet at a re-cert class I started jotting down thoughts. I'll spit them all out and then see what everyone thinks.
4 Scenarios
1. wandered off
2. taken by someone in house (either alive or because they hurt him somehow)
3. taken by stranger
4. hurt either by accident or on purpose by family member

I see scenario 3 as being highly unlikely.

Caution, some of this may be upsetting, please don't read if it might bother you

Scenario 1
I don't feel the area in a 1 mile area has been cleared, it would take days to do so completely. Have they done line searches and then cross gridded them (effectively doing the same line search but perpendicular to the way you did it the first time)
Have they checked every pond and small body of water in that same area? There appear to be a lot of them. Both of these things are highly time consuming.
Expanding to 2 miles=do the exact same thing all over for 2nd mile. 1 square mile is almost 28 million square feet 640 acres, it's a lot more ground to cover than most think. Especially when you are looking for an 18 month old baby who is 2 ft tall and going to be a whole lot smaller if curled into a ball.

Scenario 2 and even 4
we are looking at a 30 minute window from the time Dad last saw him to the time the 911 call was made. There has been no information out saying that these times are incorrect. If Dad said 8 and he was out in the livingroom with others, then there would be multiple people who saw him at this time. So, what could have happened in that 30 min. window? Not much time to hurt/kill a child and dispose of him. The most likely scenario would be to hide the body for future disposal. Where would that be? Shed? Car? Do neighbors leave their cars unlocked? What neighbors have sheds or something similar that would work? HRD dogs were brought out, no word as to whether they hit on anything or not. What they did not do use find Joshua. Did they check the cars of everyone who was there that night? Who would have had time/ability to do it after the 911 call was made? I'm seeing some real logistical issues here with trying to pin this on them.
As for scenario 3....
What are the odds of a stranger driving down that street at 8 at night when an 18 month old happens to wander outside? I'm going with astronomically unlikely.

BBM And yet, this is a very real possibility in the case of Derrick Engebretson from Oregon. In fact, if you do a bit more reading, the man confessed then later recanted.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/e/engebretson_derrick.html

 

[ThoughtFox]

I'm really hoping they searched that house completely before starting the outside search. I'm starting to wonder if the baby could have climbed up on something and fallen behind some furniture? Just speculating. ETA: Children can hide in a very small space and not be seen. My kids used to hide in the clothes basket under the clothes.

Some of your posts here reminded me of a family story about my older brother when he was five years old and fell asleep behind the cedar chest. Meanwhile my parents were frantically driving up and down the road calling his name - they lived way out in the country and thought he had gotten lost in the woods or something. They came home frantic and in tears and there he was, standing on the porch wondering where they had been.

I wish all these missing child stories could have a happy ending like that. I know we all do.

 

[Texas Mist]

BBM And yet, this is a very real possibility in the case of Derrick Engebretson from Oregon. In fact, if you do a bit more reading, the man confessed then later recanted.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/e/engebretson_derrick.html

Derrick disappeared during the day from what I just read at that link.

I also find it highly improbable, tho not impossible, that baby Joshua was snatched up after wandering outside in the cold dark night.

In the 'wandered off/then abducted' scenario, it would seem there would be scant, if any, evidence.

It's just mind-boggling this baby could vanish like this w/ no clues as to what happened to him.

 

[LCoastMom]

So, whilet at a re-cert class I started jotting down thoughts. I'll spit them all out and then see what everyone thinks.
4 Scenarios
1. wandered off
2. taken by someone in house (either alive or because they hurt him somehow)
3. taken by stranger
4. hurt either by accident or on purpose by family member

I see scenario 3 as being highly unlikely.

Caution, some of this may be upsetting, please don't read if it might bother you

Scenario 1
I don't feel the area in a 1 mile area has been cleared, it would take days to do so completely. Have they done line searches and then cross gridded them (effectively doing the same line search but perpendicular to the way you did it the first time)
Have they checked every pond and small body of water in that same area? There appear to be a lot of them. Both of these things are highly time consuming.
Expanding to 2 miles=do the exact same thing all over for 2nd mile. 1 square mile is almost 28 million square feet 640 acres, it's a lot more ground to cover than most think. Especially when you are looking for an 18 month old baby who is 2 ft tall and going to be a whole lot smaller if curled into a ball.

Scenario 2 and even 4
we are looking at a 30 minute window from the time Dad last saw him to the time the 911 call was made. There has been no information out saying that these times are incorrect. If Dad said 8 and he was out in the livingroom with others, then there would be multiple people who saw him at this time. So, what could have happened in that 30 min. window? Not much time to hurt/kill a child and dispose of him. The most likely scenario would be to hide the body for future disposal. Where would that be? Shed? Car? Do neighbors leave their cars unlocked? What neighbors have sheds or something similar that would work? HRD dogs were brought out, no word as to whether they hit on anything or not. What they did not do use find Joshua. Did they check the cars of everyone who was there that night? Who would have had time/ability to do it after the 911 call was made? I'm seeing some real logistical issues here with trying to pin this on them.
As for scenario 3....
What are the odds of a stranger driving down that street at 8 at night when an 18 month old happens to wander outside? I'm going with astronomically unlikely.

Scenario 2 and 4 doesn't leave much time to get all 8 people, including a 6 year old all on the same page - just like it doesn't seem like it would be enough time to conceal a baby's body well enough that 5 days of searches yielded zip (that we know of).

So was he really missing hours or days before the 911 call - I don't think so...

Stranger abduction seems even less likely, unless it were aliens flying by just wanting to help out this defenseless baby out in the elements.

Wandered off - find his socks, he won't be far away... I did see pictures from the line searches - people walking about 1 to 2 arms lengths apart across a weed filled field. They are using drones and divers for small places and the water traps.

Maybe stranger/alien abduction is the most likely cause of his disappearance at this point... IDK.

*I did read/hear that everyone there Fri night was interviewed by LE and vehicles were checked.

*Mom said her POI has changed their story.

* this will have to be MOO because I can't find the link right now...

 

[not_my_kids]

Thank you so much for your effort "not my kids", your timeline provides an answer to what time the 911 call came in, plus a wealth of information in this ongoing case!

That is supposed to read 8:38 p.m. and will be one of a million things I have to fix.

 

[not_my_kids]

Here's what I'm not getting:

The mother keeps saying 8:40 p.m. But then on NG, in her own words, she says 8 p.m.

LE says they were dispatched at 8:38 p.m. That's 40 minutes

Even if he were discovered to be gone at 8:40 p.m. that's not 10-20 minutes either. That's immediate. I'm going to catalogue the parents statements later today, as I noticed some very interesting sound bites while compiling LE statements. Let's just suffice it to say that, from watching literally every video interview, my perceptions of the father have changed and my overall outlook on this case has hanged as well. Not accusing, just analyzing.

The mother, I still think she's clueless, she does things like wringing her hands and showing other signs of true nerves and worry when there are no LE present and the camera is on the other side of the room. She does also wipe both eyes when she cries, not just one, as was earlier stated. On the flip side of that, some of her statements are a bit conflicting, but none of us have perfect recall.

As for the searches, I believe that they think they have searched everywhere on that grid, but I also believe that they are wrong. One square mile of nearly open terrain, that would take more then 100 searchers, and there is no way that the dogs, wrong or right kind have covered each individual inch of that grid pattern by now, especially considering that now the grid is two miles.

 

[MsFacetious]

SARX -

I was driving tonight, talking about how "SARX said they should have found Joshua's scent unless he was beamed up by aliens." :seeya:

Then, I realized... :thud:

Even if a person was abducted by aliens... would there not still be a scent from the spot they were standing in before ET beamed them up? :ufo:

You never know when we will have a parent who insists their child was abducted by ET the babysitter or the aliens in their own head. Then we'll need to know this. :waitasec:

Bedtime... fftobed:

 

[belimom]

And what she said on NG was

GRACE: And to you, Sabrina Benitez, what happens after 8:00? What happens then?

BENITEZ: That`s when I realized that the baby hadn`t been -- like it wasn`t normal that he hadn`t been in and out the room. That`s when I jumped up and came to see if he was in the room when I realized he wasn`t in that room. He hadn`t been in the living room. And everyone in the house started looking for him.

GRACE: Well, your husband -- the father says he saw the baby at 8:00, so what time did you realize he was missing?

BENITEZ: It was all right around that time. I mean everything happened so quick I wasn`t looking at the clock. But it was all around that time frame.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/07/ng.02.html

bbm

So now I'm confused. Was this a slip-up or was the father not watching basketball in the living room? It's a small home so I'm assuming that there is no separate den/family room. So that leaves another BR? So where were these other people - out in the LR alone? Or all piled in a BR watching TV? Even if there is a den/family room, that still leaves these other folks (or someone?) in the living room - otherwise she wouldn't know that he hadn't been there.

In my mind I had it that the mom was in the BR watching TV (and maybe g'father in another BR with another child?) while everyone else was in the LR watching the ballgame.

So either that was a slip-up or the father really wasn't in the LR. Which means... who WAS in the living room? I'm now starting to understand how someone in that house did something and not all the other adults would know, if everyone was split up all over the home.

 

[TxLady2]

I agree, they aren't needed to determine the mindset for a missing 18 m/o toddler. However I also am very glad that multiple LE agencies are investigating what happened to this precious little boy. I pray he is found soon. rayer:

They may be profiling the family members as well, sort of looking at the whole picture of what could have happened that day.

 

[belimom]

I'm really hoping they searched that house completely before starting the outside search. I'm starting to wonder if the baby could have climbed up on something and fallen behind some furniture? Just speculating. ETA: Children can hide in a very small space and not be seen. My kids used to hide in the clothes basket under the clothes.

Some of your posts here reminded me of a family story about my older brother when he was five years old and fell asleep behind the cedar chest. Meanwhile my parents were frantically driving up and down the road calling his name - they lived way out in the country and thought he had gotten lost in the woods or something. They came home frantic and in tears and there he was, standing on the porch wondering where they had been.

I wish all these missing child stories could have a happy ending like that. I know we all do.

bbm

I think that small toddlers can find the tiniest of all spaces - and spaces that you wouldn't even think to look. But at this point, if he's in the home, I'm trusting that LE would have found him - especially with the dogs, kwim? Even if LE didn't noticed a scent, I think the most basic of police dogs could have known something was up inside. MOO...

 

[pamlet]

Another good point and one I've heard conflicting reports on, buzzards. What's the word, are they in the area or has it been too cold? We have them all year long here, but in Hailey's case I keep hearing that in some parts of Texas they are seasonal. Any resident buzzard experts? lol.

I was thinking about buzzards last night- they're out in force ... I saw about 8 of them just off the road the other day on a racoon -

I think they're pretty much here all the time.

 

[TxLady2]

That's very carefully worded... IMHO. I just wonder about the word "awareness" being put in the mix, kwim?

It's a nice way of saying they don't know why that many adults in one room would not be aware of a toddler going out the door.

 

[belimom]

I still think he was taken by someone in that house that day.One of the
people left and came back it was stated Does anyone know who that was?
Mmm I wonder why they left ,to go the store maybe?

The bucket/shovel being removed (if this is true and if those things turn out to be involved -- all "ifs" at this point) makes it seem that someone sure had more time than just 20-30 minutes.

It seems now that the mom/dad/g'father were all separated from at least a guest or two who was in the living room - if I'm interpreting the mom's statement on NG correctly. Did the others in the home see this baby that evening? If not and/or there are any inconsistencies among the guests there, then I'm sure LE would want to verify when he was seen prior to that evening.

This guest coming/going sure sounds hinky as well.

 

[suzyq211]

I would love to be able to see a floorplan of the house.

 

[TxLady2]

http://law.rightpundits.com/?p=2809


Authorities feel the child wandered off, pointing out that the glass front door had been left open that evening and also would not latch. Sabrina Benitez, the baby’s mother, feels someone visiting their home Friday evening kidnapped Joshua. She said this person has already changed their story, but police are not pursuing her theory.
==========================================

I WONDER IF THEY HAVE PURSUED HER INITIAL THEORY?


Officials believe the child simply wandered off, possibly following someone out the door of the home, located in south Comal County near W. Klein Road and S. Walnut Avenue. They did investigate a registered sex offender across the street and cleared him. The police were notified of Joshua’s disappearance within 20 minutes of his last being seen.
====================================================

All of these 20 minute increments are weird to me.
The mom has said she began looking at 7:40 because he didn't come back to Toy Story
The Dad said he last saw him at 8:00.
The cops were called @ 8:40. [although I have seen 8:20 reported as well]

But either way, If mom became concerned @ 7:40, and she is just 30 seconds away from Dad, who was with him @ 8:00---Why didn't she find him between 7:40 and 8 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Yes, that is strange. I am thinking somebody is mixed up on their times, or the little boy was missing a lot longer than 20 minutes.

 

[belimom]

Benitez, also speaking on HLN, said she was watching "Toy Story" with Joshua shortly before 8 p.m. Friday when he left the room, heading toward where six other adults and another child were.

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-joshua-davis-missing,0,7686494.story

But now this doesn't add up, even though it's not a direct quote. But this is the impression that was originally given, IMHO. Now the g'father is in another room with another child, correct? (Where was that stated?) And now the father was somewhere besides the living room - but someone was in the living room...

Yes, I'm stuck on this, b/c it's not making any sense (IMO). And are the locations of various people changing as time goes by or was it always said that they were scattered about?

 

[TxLady2]

I think it would be very possible that some predator could have been driving around, saw this child wandering the streets and snatched him very quickly. It only takes a few seconds. Joshua could have managed to get several blocks away in that timeframe, it would not have had to happen right in that neighborhood. I would not discount this possibilty so quickly.

Something is just not adding up here, but I can't figure out what. I do pray that they find him soon.