TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels, 4 Feb 2011 - # 5

[HiHater]

I honestly don't think LE is any further with this case than the very first day.

I hate to think that! There are things that make me believe this, then other things make me think they have to know more than what they let on. I just really, really hope that evidence that could have been used did not get overlooked from the outset because they classified the case a certain way. JMO

 

[burbqueen]

IMO this case is gonna be cold, but thats just me....

 

[HiHater]

OMG! I know how Nancy Grace feels every times she says "BOMBSHELL TONIGHT!"

Let's just say I just did some lookin around on Mapquest to see exactly where Country Ridge/Hunter Road are at in proximity to the residence baby Joshua disappeared from. It's not close at all.

<modsnip>
ahhhhh!

 

[Kat]

Snipped by me
BBM

I am starting to lean this way as well. In looking at the time line, the parents have said abduction consistently, I can't help but think what if the police assumed certain things without giving other things the attention and investigation needed. JMO

That may be accurate I have no way to tell if it is or not about LE and their investigation because they've been so closed mouthed about so much of it.

What concerned me is this---and again I bring up this to balance the viewpoint that LE has a tunnel vision with this investigation (which I do not argue at all) that the family may very well have tunnel vision too.

In that they were ( to the best of my knowledge and it is on one of the threads because I did pose this question -there are 5 threads to search and I am not going to search them for my initial query post and the response by other members) stating that this was an abduction before the ground search had been completed for Joshua. LE had not even finished their ground search and the family was stating that this was an abduction.

Not looking at LE but at this particular fact I have to wonder if the family doesn't have tunnel vision as well? If their perception of what happened to him was developed that evening or shortly thereafter and the fact that he wasn't found bolsters their theory.

Their assertion that he was abducted is a theory IMHO. So we have LE that says it's not an abduction. We have the family that has said it was an abduction even before the ground searches were completed.

(IIRC and don't take this as fact I think that it was stated on the NG show within 48 hours of Joshua going missing but I could be wrong on my recollection of the timeline).

Do we have an inept LE with inept FBI and Texas Ranger investigators too?

Do we have a family that became focused on one theory that made sense to them and now they have tunnel vision to any other possibility?

Do we have a family member or person in that home that knows exactly what happened to Joshua, when it happened and where he is now?

I have no clue. But that's where I am so far. JMHO

 

[Fairy1]

That may be accurate I have no way to tell if it is or not about LE and their investigation because they've been so closed mouthed about so much of it.

What concerned me is this---and again I bring up this to balance the viewpoint that LE has a tunnel vision with this investigation (which I do not argue at all) that the family may very well have tunnel vision too.

In that they were ( to the best of my knowledge and it is on one of the threads because I did pose this question -there are 5 threads to search and I am not going to search them for my initial query post and the response by other members) stating that this was an abduction before the ground search had been completed for Joshua. LE had not even finished their ground search and the family was stating that this was an abduction.

Not looking at LE but at this particular fact I have to wonder if the family doesn't have tunnel vision as well? If their perception of what happened to him was developed that evening or shortly thereafter and the fact that he wasn't found bolsters their theory.

Their assertion that he was abducted is a theory IMHO. So we have LE that says it's not an abduction. We have the family that has said it was an abduction even before the ground searches were completed.

(IIRC and don't take this as fact I think that it was stated on the NG show within 48 hours of Joshua going missing but I could be wrong on my recollection of the timeline).

Do we have an inept LE with inept FBI and Texas Ranger investigators too?

Do we have a family that became focused on one theory that made sense to them and now they have tunnel vision to any other possibility?

Do we have a family member or person in that home that knows exactly what happened to Joshua, when it happened and where he is now?

I have no clue. But that's where I am so far. JMHO

To the best of my recollection, the family (mother) has consistently (for the most part) stated abduction.

If LE had believed that was true, they wouldn't have mounted a ground search for several days after Joshua went missing. I do not see them being on the same page at all.

 

[HiHater]

Just removed, not sure the parameters and saw the modsnip from earlier. Sorry.

 

[HiHater]

To the best of my recollection, the family (mother) has consistently (for the most part) stated abduction.

If LE had believed that was true, they wouldn't have mounted a ground search for several days after Joshua went missing. I do not see them being on the same page at all.

I would also ask then, why would they search an area 12 miles away on 2/9 if they thought the baby wandered off? No way could he get that far, unless someone took him. JMO

 

[HiHater]

Does anyone knows if cell phones ping when they are not in use? Like, do I have to actually make a phone call in order for the signal to register with a tower (or however you say it).

There are rather young people involved in this case, I'd imagine they have cell phones that may be able to yield some clues...

 

[liltexans]

Does anyone knows if cell phones ping when they are not in use? Like, do I have to actually make a phone call in order for the signal to register with a tower (or however you say it).

There are rather young people involved in this case, I'd imagine they have cell phones that may be able to yield some clues...

I think the phone only needs to be turned on to ping. As far as I know you do not need to be using the phone in order for it to ping.

 

[TxLady2]

I would also ask then, why would they search an area 12 miles away on 2/9 if they thought the baby wandered off? No way could he get that far, unless someone took him. JMO

Because they are not stuck on one theory, they are considering all possibilities, which is what they should be doing.
What if the baby did manage to wander a mile or so away? And then someone spotted him, realized this was an opportunity, did whatever they wanted to and then dumped his body several miles away from the house? Not all predators stalk their victims, sometimes they just seize an opportunity when they see one.

 

[HiHater]

Because they are not stuck on one theory, they are considering all possibilities, which is what they should be doing.
What if the baby did manage to wander a mile or so away? And then someone spotted him, realized this was an opportunity, did whatever they wanted to and then dumped his body several miles away from the house? Not all predators stalk their victims, sometimes they just seize an opportunity when they see one.

I understand that, but someone asked why they would conduct a ground search if they believed the abduction story...

I agree, the fact that they have investigated from different perspectives shows that LE does not necessarily have tunnel vision. The parents on the other hand, they may have tunnel vision because they know more than any of us (about Baby Joshua, about each other, the house, the area, the "friend", etc.)

 

[Dee10]

So SB was told there are no signs the friend abducted him; when they do not believe he was abducted by anyone, however they are following up on all tips. Several people were interviewed more than once and it was the father that said everyone but SB has taken a poly (which is different than what SB said on the video a week or two ago).

Thanks to those for the summaries, it was helpful to know we do know more than we did on day one and several people were interviewed more than once.

 

[LCoastMom]

Just removed, not sure the parameters and saw the modsnip from earlier. Sorry.

We can post a link to FB - we can paraphrase comments as rumors from FB and the news blogs (stated to be rumors) as long as the FB isn't private.


Baiting is stating I read something (not really shared) and with no link.

I think I have this correct, if you aren't sure you can always alert on your own reply and ask if it is OK. (I did this on the FB poster Link because I couldn't remember either).

 

[justthinkin]

I think these quotes will clarify what I meant by changes.


February 5, 2011

&#8220;I last saw my son around 8 last night,&#8221; said Josh Davis, Joshua&#8217;s father. &#8220;He was pulling on my beanie trying to take it off. He was behind my chair. When I told him to stop, he looked at me and smiled.

&#8220;That was the last time I saw him.&#8221;

Davis described Joshua as a cheerful, playful and loving boy.

&#8220;They have no leads,&#8221; said Sabrina Benitez, Joshua&#8217;s mother, through tears. &#8220;I last saw him around 7:40 p.m. in my room watching &#8216;Toy Story.&#8217; When I realized he hadn&#8217;t come back to watch with me, I realized he was missing.&#8221;
Saturday, February 5, 2011 6:34 pm | Updated: 9:23 pm, Sat Feb 5, 2011.
http://herald-zeitung.com/news/commu...cc4c03286.html

This is the very first quote we have from SB from any link posted on WS. As I see it, the important information she gives is
1. They have no leads.
2. Last saw him 7:40PM
3. Realized he was missing.

Is it just me or does it seem odd to anyone else that her first statement is about leads?
---------------------------------------------------------

February 7, 2011 Nancy Grace


GRACE: And to you, Sabrina Benitez, what happens after 8:00? What happens then?

BENITEZ: That`s when I realized that the baby hadn`t been -- like it wasn't normal that he hadn`t been in and out the room. That`s when I jumped up and came to see if he was in the room when I realized he wasn`t in that room. He hadn`t been in the living room. And everyone in the house started looking for him.
GRACE: And what time was this?

BENITEZ: Around 8:00.

GRACE: Well, your husband -- the father says he saw the baby at 8:00, so what time did you realize he was missing?

BENITEZ: It was all right around that time. I mean everything happened so quick I wasn`t looking at the clock. But it was all around that time frame.
-----------
Important info as I see it
1. Now SB last saw him around/after 8:00PM
2. He hadn't been in that room. (Grandfather's room?)
3. He hadn't been in the living room.
4. Everyone started looking for him around 8;00PM

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/07/ng.02.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

February 10, 2011 Nancy Grace

....BENITEZ: He was wandering from our room to the living room, where the other family members were. When I realized after about 10 minutes that it was unusual my baby hadn`t been back in the room to come get a toy, come watch the movie.

....GRACE: Right now, I`m quoting Lieutenant Michael Penshorn from Braunfels, Texas. He says, although we are still searching our primary focus now is shifting more towards the investigation aspect. Investigating to find out exactly what happened to Joshua Davis on the evening in question.

Well, we are fortunate tonight to have the lieutenant with us. What did you mean by that Lieutenant?

LT. MICHAEL PENSHORN, NEW BRAUNFELS POLICE DEPT.: Well, you know, I think we all agree that obviously children do not simply disappear. You know, this is not necessarily a case of a stranger coming and taking this child. Nothing to indicate this is a kidnapping or abduction. Mainly we`re looking at it that something happened to this child in and around this home which led to his disappearance. Period.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/10/ng.02.html

10th. of February, and Penshorn is telling us what their main focus is, "Mainly we're looking at..." and ends his statement with 'period.' By saying "period" at the end of his sentence, he's emphasizing what their focus is on day 6.

It couldn't be any clearer to me. Now this is just my interpretation, but I think when he says in and around the home, what he means is inside the house and outside the house, not around as in around the neighborhood.

 

[justthinkin]

I am so dragging my feet on the summation for thread 2. I haven't gotten through it yet. Hope nobody's holding their breath.
jt, the fat and lazy one

 

[HiHater]

I think these quotes will clarify what I meant by changes.

1. They have no leads.
2. Last saw him 7:40PM
3. Realized he was missing.

Is it just me or does it seem odd to anyone else that her first statement is about leads?

Important info as I see it
1. Now SB last saw him around/after 8:00PM
2. He hadn't been in that room. (Grandfather's room?)
3. He hadn't been in the living room.
4. Everyone started looking for him around 8;00PM



It couldn't be any clearer to me. Now this is just my interpretation, but I think when he says in and around the home, what he means is inside the house and outside the house, not around as in around the neighborhood.

Snipped by me, for space...

I just wanted to offer MHO for what it's worth.

1. She could have been responding to a question when she spoke about leads. That's not necessarily weird to talk about, I mean her child is missing and she's trying to find him. In her mind, she is thinking "abduction", so in that case, leads are the key to finding the baby.

2. When SB says she "realized he was missing", she might not have meant MISSING in a sense that he was gone from the home. Missing could have simply meant he was unaccounted for; not where he normally was or should have been.

3. SB didn't change the time she last saw him. Nancy Grace asked for clarification, and SB specifically says she wasn't looking at the clock/it all happened so fast. I think the important thing is that mom saw him---he never went back to mom---then dad saw him---and never saw him again. I think the sequence of those events would probably be more important than the time. I am horrible at looking at time, because I'm a SAHM and not really on any sort of schedule. If asked the last time I saw my kid, I'd have to base it on a TV show time, dinner time, bath time, play time, etc---and not an actual clock...

4. I don't recall what source I read it from, but I seem to remember the 911 call being placed at 838, and the family claims to have searched for him for about 20 minutes before the grandfather called 911. So that kind of narrows down the timeline, but not much.

5. Even an abduction scenario could have occurred in or around the home. I still don't see how that "clears" the friend as you alluded to in your earlier post.

6. EVERYTHING above is JMO...

 

[HiHater]

So SB was told there are no signs the friend abducted him; when they do not believe he was abducted by anyone, however they are following up on all tips. Several people were interviewed more than once and it was the father that said everyone but SB has taken a poly (which is different than what SB said on the video a week or two ago).

Thanks to those for the summaries, it was helpful to know we do know more than we did on day one and several people were interviewed more than once.

JD said that the "friend" refused a poly....It's in a herald-zeitung article, don't have it readily available but if I need to can find...

 

[justthinkin]

HH,

JD also said, "yes," excluding his wife, when reporter Deborah Knapp asked if all seven adults in the house had been given polys.
http://www.kens5.com/news/local/Missing-toddlers-dad--115595439.html

So we have two different answers from him regarding the polys.

I wish you would find that article and what post it was in because it was after he said that the friend hadn't been given a poly, that NBPD made a statement about that. That statement is the one I'm looking for.

About your other post....
I have to agree with you about the leads statement. It could have been preceded by a question about leads, but we don't really know that it was.

I still find it odd that she says around 7:40, and then gets more vague about times, and winds up saying something about not having a watch or a clock, one of those two.

I still question her use of the expression missing at that point in time because she does follow that up by saying she jumped up and ran to another room which, in my mind, cancels out a more casual use of the word missing. Her actions indicate panic.

NG says, "so what happened after 8:00?
SB now says that's when she noticed her son hadn't come back to the room.

It is a time change, and she notices it herself, and goes into the business about well it was all around that time, saying she didn't have a watch or clock or something like that. I'm not quoting directly here obviously. Her statements don't have to mean anything bad necessarily. She could've just gotten confused. The statements are something to retain though. Same with the dad's statements about polys.

I did not bring up Penshor's statement in reference to anything about the friend, only to show how early LE's main focus turned to the residence.

I do not see where NBPD has been lax about anything concerning this case. They called for outside help early on. They did an extensive ground search while conducting a parallel search from day 1. They sought the aid of the Texas Rangers, DPS, a variety of dogs, scent, tracking and cadaver dogs and handlers. They had helicopters with infrared out there. They were on the RSO right away. They've done a fine job, IMO.

 

[HiHater]

1. Police sources have said on several occasions they can’t divulge information about who has taken a polygraph test or anything related to so-called “lie detector” results. Speculation continues to circulate on Facebook and around the community regarding polygraph work in the case.

http://herald-zeitung.com/news/local_news/article_416d3bb6-420e-11e0-a735-001cc4c002e0.html


2.

After more than a week of worry, Joshua's father has become suspicious of even his closest friends.

The night Joshua disappeared, a friend who had been watching the Celtics-Mavericks basketball game with the family left just before Joshua's absence was noticed, he said.

That friend has declined to take a polygraph test, he said. Police asked Davis not to release his friend's name.

“I've known him for six or eight years. It's kind of hard to believe he'd play any role in this,” the father said.

Davis said after family members searched throughout the home after 8 p.m. that night, he called his friend to see if he had any idea what happened to the boy.

Unlike the rest of the family's friends, the man declined to help look for the missing tot, and Davis hasn't seen him since Feb. 4, he said.

“I sure would hate to think that (the friend is involved in Joshua's disappearance) - he hasn't taken a lie detector test. Everyone who was here has taken one, except my girlfriend because she's pregnant. They asked him, and he wouldn't take a lie detector test.

“I don't see why my friend didn't want to come search for Joshua. My sister came from a whole other state.”

http://herald-zeitung.com/news/local_news/article_81076280-3979-11e0-9a54-001cc4c002e0.html

If you read the bolded sentence, it doesn't make sense for him to speak like that. It's like, he says the friend hasn't taken one, then goes right on to say EVERYONE except his girlfriend has---then back to saying the friend wouldn't take it; similar to what he said in the video. Also keep in mind that JD and SB say the police asked them not to release the friend's name, and it is very possible that JD didn't know that his "friend" declined the poly when he gave that interview on Feb 8. The article I am quoting from is about a week later--I'd assume much more info and focus was available by that time. JMO

3. I think a lot of this is semantics when it comes to SB. Jumped up is not necessarily indicative of panic, people from different cultures and places speak differently. I think people, myself included, may have read too much into that early on. The FBI’s elite Behavior Science Unit out of Quantico, Va was called in on this case, and if SB or JD's statements or behavior were questionable, I think the experts would have gotten to the bottom of it. Both of them were cooperating, with no lawyers, statements were recorded, so LE has plenty to work with on those two.

4. She last saw her son at 740, she noticed at about 8 that he hadn't been back in the room. What's confusing about that; how is that a story changing? She's telling you two different events. When she saw him, when she noticed he was gone. We also don't know if she said Joshua is missing right at that point in time. She's relaying a story to us about a person who actually is missing, so she may be using that word more loosely now than she did initially. If that makes sense.

5. If the focus was on the residence early on, the LE did do something wrong in this case. The locations searched are contrary to this though. Searching 12 miles away is not focusing on the residence. Especially to search 12 miles away 2 times in one week...JMO In addition, we don't know much of what the police have done behind the scenes, so I don't think anyone could necessarily say they have been lax. Yes there were the FB rumors that said they have been, but only time will tell. Oh, and as far as the parallel investigation from day one, that's not necessarily true. It went from a search on Friday the 4th, to a recovery effort on Sunday the 6th, and I don't find an instance where Lt. Penshorn is discussing a "full blown investigation" until Tuesday the 8th.

Side note: I may have missed this earlier, but I found an instance where the police specifically ruled out STRANGER abduction---Authorities have said they have ruled out stranger abduction, based on a range of factors that includes the location, the time of day, the weather and even the statistical probability that something like this would occur, McDonald said. “The part of him getting out of the residence is still a possibility, but he’s definitely not a two-mile radius and we’re definitely not at a stranger-abduction scenario, so all other possibilities are still on the table,” he said.

To me, that means the "friend" is still part of the big picture somewhere...

Note* I can provide links to allll of the above info, but I have already provided the links somewhere in this or the other 4 threads. Let me know!

 

[Dee10]

According to Lt. Michael Penshorn, detectives have recently seen an increase in tips about Davis' disappearance, after a corresponding increase in reward money offered for information that leading to Davis' recovery.

http://www.ksat.com/news/27404017/detail.html