TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #1

[Kaiser Sousa]

The radio station in the mall was not a popular one at all and was gone by then.

 

[justthinkin]

So it was nothing but a vacant room or rooms? Glass walls or enclosed space not viewable to those outside?

Of course what I'm getting at is this could have been were the girls were first taken possibly.

 

[Kaiser Sousa]

I really dont know what was open to the public during the period around the dissapearance, but even in the early days of the mall there were many offices and rooms where the public did not have access. I remember a large room that was opened up for a fashion show/concert that was called "the flower fair" in 1967 , i had never seen this part of the basement opened up before and I remember there were more rooms I saw on that side I didnt know existed. The Radio Station had only one room that you could see and it had a large window with the DJ and his control room. We would watch him sometimes, but I dont think he played records, could have been farm reports or something. The radio station was in the southernmost corner of the basement and there was a stairway that lead to a single door that led to the south parking lot and Seminary road.

 

[Balthazar]

Diege: In terms of Houston, think about:

1. People Rachel knew from school or church or anywhere else she went - like at work, if she had a job.
2. People Tommy knew that had some connection to Houston.

Also, it's very important to know, did Rachel normally sign cards and letters: Love Rachel - no comma? Did she usually put Love Rachel or something else? That would help us to determine if she actually wrote this note under duress or if someone else wrote it.

 

[Balthazar]

Last night, I started wondering - could Houston actually be Houston's Restaurant? Was there one in Ft. Worth that Rachel and Tommy might have gone to?

I also wondered if the police searched the entire Seminary South Mall on the 23rd - did they go into the basements and behind the scenes or did they do practically nothing?

 

[TexasSandman]

From my understanding, LE considered the girls runaways for several days after the disappearence and were basically ignoring the families concerns. So I would doubt that LE performed any sort of initial search of the Mall other than perhaps a basic walk-through to inquire if the girls had been seen.

 

[TallCoolOne]

From my understanding, LE considered the girls runaways for several days after the disappearence and were basically ignoring the families concerns. So I would doubt that LE performed any sort of initial search of the Mall other than perhaps a basic walk-through to inquire if the girls had been seen.

Too often that seems to be the case. Instead of erring on the side of caution and treating it as a crime and obtaining any evidence that might be available, they claim the individual(s) are a runaway and blow it off only to regret doing so later. How sad that they were just written off in the minds of LE in such a way. So much might have been gained if that were not the case.

 

[TexasSandman]

All the talk about the security offices sure has my head stuck on the Security Guard that claimed he saw the girls in another officer's truck. I know LE supposedly looked at the person in question, but did they look closely at the person that reported it after all this time? We all know that perps will sometimes try to align themselves with the investigation, provide false leads, or even prove to themselves how much smarter they are than LE. I am just still really disturbed by his comments that he never saw anything in the news and had assumed the girls had been found.

 

[Kaiser Sousa]

If I had more information or all the facts, I might have a different view, but I think the security guard scenario makes more sense than someone taking them against their will. If someone forced them to come with them I dont think the guy would have tried to do it in the mall and even the walk from the mall to the car in broad daylight doesnt seem like it would appeal to an abductor. Too much traffic during Xmas , that is if the parking lot was the one on the Seminary drive side.

If they were kept in the basement till late in the evening they might have left a clue in what ever room they were in.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

If I had more information or all the facts, I might have a different view, but I think the security guard scenario makes more sense than someone taking them against their will. If someone forced them to come with them I dont think the guy would have tried to do it in the mall and even the walk from the mall to the car in broad daylight doesnt seem like it would appeal to an abductor. Too much traffic during Xmas , that is if the parking lot was the one on the Seminary drive side.

If they were kept in the basement till late in the evening they might have left a clue in what ever room they were in.

I agree that the security guard scenario seems the most likely. It does seem strange though that a security guard would have them lock their packages in the car. I would think that the most likely guise they would use would be to tell the girls that they were suspected of shop lifting. If that is the case then why were the packages left in the car?

I wonder if the mall did background checks on their security guards.

It doesn't make sense to me that the police assumed that the girls had runaway when there were multiple witnesses that said that they saw something that indicated otherwise.

 

[Kaiser Sousa]

Okay, if Rachel took the jeans from Army-Navy inside the mall to match up with something else maybe some store thought she lifted them and called the rouge security guard, giving him the excuse of taking them to the basement.
I guess that would leave a pretty good witness in the store person that called the security guard though. Maybe Rachel was just walking thru the mall with no sack for the jeans and the guard stopped them. Crap, I wish I did have the police reports, to see who all they talked too.

 

[Kaiser Sousa]

Daisy , Diege says the only present found wrapped in the car was a gift Renee brought from home for Rachel's stepson.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Okay, if Rachel took the jeans from Army-Navy inside the mall to match up with something else maybe some store thought she lifted them and called the rouge security guard, giving him the excuse of taking them to the basement.
I guess that would leave a pretty good witness in the store person that called the security guard though. Maybe Rachel was just walking thru the mall with no sack for the jeans and the guard stopped them. Crap, I wish I did have the police reports, to see who all they talked too.

Me too. The police did give the case file to the first PI, so it probably was destroyed. I wonder if the police ever gave the file to the second PI? Seems unlikely as I can't believe that they gave the file to the first PI, and for all we know they did not even give him the complete file. Does anyone know if that kind of thing was more common back then?

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Daisy , Diege says the only present found wrapped in the car was a gift Renee brought from home for Rachel's stepson.

Thanks! I read everything last night and have just gotten time to write... Do we have confirmation that the jeans that were not purchased at the mall were not in the car?

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Is it possible that the police were protecting one of their own that was moonlighting as a security guard?

 

[Kaiser Sousa]

It seems as though there are conflicting reports on all the facts that I knew from reading the news articles I've read thru the years and on the Trio sight. Daisy at this point I have no idea what was really in the car.

 

[Kaiser Sousa]

So far from what Deige has told us , Rachel was after a top to match the jeans she go out of layaway from the Army-Navy store, Renee was there because Rachel waned her company and Julie wanted to buy a present for her Grandpa. That doesnt sound like a whole lot of xmas presents. I always thought maybe they bought so much that they needed to store some in the car so they wouldnt have carry them while they finished shopping

 

[Kaiser Sousa]

Sorry my "t" isnt typing , I'm really not that illiterate.

 

[Balthazar]

Is it possible that the police were protecting one of their own that was moonlighting as a security guard?

That's a good question with very disturbing implications.

 

[Balthazar]

If I had more information or all the facts, I might have a different view, but I think the security guard scenario makes more sense than someone taking them against their will. If someone forced them to come with them I dont think the guy would have tried to do it in the mall and even the walk from the mall to the car in broad daylight doesnt seem like it would appeal to an abductor. Too much traffic during Xmas , that is if the parking lot was the one on the Seminary drive side.

If they were kept in the basement till late in the evening they might have left a clue in what ever room they were in.

I am wondering the exact same thing - and also wondering if perhaps they are still somewhere in that mall. Maybe the point of the letter was to send police looking everywhere but the mall. The thing is their bodies have never been found, but if there were abandoned or little used areas in the basement - could they have been concealed in some way - perhaps under a new cement floor or by construction going on down there? I remember the massive storage area at my high school had a dirt floor - could there have been an area like that at Seminary South? The thought is really very frightening. During Christmas an unsub could keep the girls in a secluded area and no one would hear anything when the mall was empty overnight and on Christmas day. I do wonder if 3 girls taken with 2 nights leading up to Christmas plus Christmas night was likely more than a coincidence in the mind of the unsub. Yet the buildings have been rennovated twice since 1974 - once to turn it into an enclosed mall and a second time to turn it into a lifestyle center and nothing was found. Just the same, I'm wondering if it would make sense for investigators to use ground penetrating radar on the basement floor of the mall.