Unfortunately, although I think we have an interesting theory, I doubt that the police would be willing to test the basement with luminol when we have no proof of anything or even a very specific area to look at. The basement could be huge and it sounds like there are many rooms. It might help if we could narrow down where they might have been kept. I also wish we knew who the suspects are as that might provide additional insight to what may have happened to the trio.
TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #1
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justthinkin
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I thought perhaps LE could take a look around the basement, and choose the places they thought were the most apt to maybe have some blood evidence. if any exists. I don't know enough about luminol to know if it would work this many years after the disappearance.
If you're in Ft. Worth, start asking people who used to shop at Seminary South what wording they would have used to describe where they left their car if they parked out front of the 2nd. floor at Sears. See how many would refer to it as the upper lot without you bringing up that wording. That could give us more of an idea if we should pursue LE looking into this. Did they even have luminol available back in 1974?
I still say you're onto something here, PrincessRose with the language, upper deck.
If you're in Ft. Worth, start asking people who used to shop at Seminary South what wording they would have used to describe where they left their car if they parked out front of the 2nd. floor at Sears. See how many would refer to it as the upper lot without you bringing up that wording. That could give us more of an idea if we should pursue LE looking into this. Did they even have luminol available back in 1974?
I still say you're onto something here, PrincessRose with the language, upper deck.
deige
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by the way, in response to everyone question about the phrase used in the letter " I know I'm going to catch it" was a phrase we used as children. Our parents were raised in east Texas, Marshall to be exact. Their dialect was a little different than in North Texas. But that does not mean she wrote the letter only that I remember using the phrase and also telling my sons they were going to catch it if they didn't straighten up. I hope this is helpful to you. Have a blessed day.
Luminol can work even in a situation that is more than 100 years past the time blood was present. For example, it has been used in the Lizzie Borden house not too many years ago to examine the basement area for blood. It can work in a situation where the room has been repainted or refloored. The main issue would be if someone cleaned the crimescene with bleach. In that case, the whole room would glow as though it was covered with blood - however, it is easy for an investigator to distinguish between blood and bleach due to the characteristics of the two.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminol
http://science.howstuffworks.com/luminol.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminol
http://science.howstuffworks.com/luminol.htm
Debra, do you know whether Rachel updated her driver's license after she got married and moved into the house with Tommy? She was married only a few months before disappearing.
If she was still carrying a license with her maiden name and address, that would indicate the abductor either knew her personally or talked to her long enough to get the new information if he knew to send a letter to Tommy and not to the Arnolds. Unless of course she had other documents like a school I.D. in her purse that might have had the new address and name...
If she was still carrying a license with her maiden name and address, that would indicate the abductor either knew her personally or talked to her long enough to get the new information if he knew to send a letter to Tommy and not to the Arnolds. Unless of course she had other documents like a school I.D. in her purse that might have had the new address and name...
That's a very interesting piece of information, Diege. I was thinking about a different scenario - one in which the ex felt betrayed by Tommy and wanted to get even. She knew about you dating him and she knew what Rachel looked like from when she dropped off or picked up her son for Tommy's visitation. It looks to me like you were dating Tommy as he finalized his divorce and then he took up with Rachel. What if Tommy's ex orchestrated this because she wanted to hurt Tommy? What if they mistook Renee for you, having never met you, and took all 3 girls to get even with Tommy?
I'm wondering if your sister was approached by Tommy's ex and she asked her to come see her son, if the three girls would willingly go with her?
Which leads to the question of the gift in your sister's car for Tommy's son - did Renee's mother know Renee had bought that gift for him for certain? If not, that could indicate that gift was put in the car to cast suspicion away from the guilty party.
VespaElf
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Ive finally been able to catch up on this thread-WOW!Great work guys-has anyone heard from the Detective currently handling the case?I know it was said he had a heart attack then a bypass but was back at work?
Kaiser Sousa
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I was thinking about a different scenario - one in which the ex felt betrayed by Tommy and wanted to get even.
I really dont think so , dont really want to say why on site
I really dont think so , dont really want to say why on site
Kaiser Sousa
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Well its starting to sound like Rachel might have written the letter if "catch it" was a commonly used phrase as Diege says. Diege I know this is heartbreaking for you to revisit all this here but we want to help. If your anything like me, you aint getting any younger. Somebody has to no something , we have to get closure for all. How certain is everyone that Rachel didnt write the letter? would you say 50/50 chance or what?
You can PM me, if you want with this info. I will not publicly reveal anything on the website that you want to keep private.
The astrologist who is working with us also does not see anything on the charts indicating that Tommy's ex was involved. I just want to rule out every "known" person.
Kaiser Sousa
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is there spell check on this site? I know "know" is not spelled "no"
It is not unusual to invite the detective involved in a Cold Case to Websleuths and they will often come on here and post. Websleuths has a pretty good reputation with law enforcement for solving cold cases. I think it might be helpful to get the public case file first, however, so that we can ask educated questions. Right now I think we are still dealing with a lot of supposition.
Sadly, no. One way to get around it is to type in Word, spellcheck there then copy paste here. It's klugy, but effective. At any rate, no one here cares about spelling mistakes!
There is another member who is an astrologist (and a really good one) who has been helping us. In general her charts show this was a stranger abductions, that the girls could have been taken from a restroom and also show that Rachel's wedding rings are with the unsub and this evidence may someday be his undoing.
This makes me wonder where the restrooms were at Seminary South - does anyone remember? With the Christmas rush, I would imagine the ones in the department stores would have a long line for the ladies room. So is it possible that the girls went down to the basement to use a restroom that was less known - perhaps one near the former bowling alley?
Diege, do you remember anything about the restrooms at the mall? Was there one in the basement you all knew about?
This makes me wonder where the restrooms were at Seminary South - does anyone remember? With the Christmas rush, I would imagine the ones in the department stores would have a long line for the ladies room. So is it possible that the girls went down to the basement to use a restroom that was less known - perhaps one near the former bowling alley?
Diege, do you remember anything about the restrooms at the mall? Was there one in the basement you all knew about?
Kaiser Sousa
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there were some large ones upstairs at sears that the stalls were pay toilets in 1973, there were restrooms in the Restaurants, El Chicos, Wyatts, and Bobs(if it was still there) and the largest and free was in the basement on the south side where Razors Edge and the Radio Station were. There were not many public restrooms in most of the stores. And of course the bowling alley had restrooms, but now that i think of it they wouldnt have gone to the bowling alley then to use them, because if it was open they wouldnt like it down there and I think it was closed by then. I wish there were some public records on what was open and when.
Kaiser Sousa
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Is there something distinct about the ring that would make it easy to identify?
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