TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

[beubeubeu]

I have seen TM's account of this but have no way of knowing if it is true. He says that VB just went to live in California with his dad for a bit, but then asked TM for bus fare back to FW, and lived with TM for a bit in 1975.
TM is VB's biggest defender. Even when he acknowledges VB asked him to say they were drinking whiskey together the day the trio vanished when it wasn't true, TM says it was just a mistake and carries on with vehement defence of VB.

Reading the way TM defends VB has led me to form the opinion that VB didn't harm the girls in any way, but that he was part of the story.

Yet when someone pointed out that - just weeks before he took stand and spoke so highely of VB - TM said that nobody was able to place VB at the mall that day, JM's teen friend, same who was with her at the mall and was part of that planned lunch together said that oh yeah, she heard that VB met with the girls at the mall (by accident, not that to her knowledge it was anything like scheduled meeting). To that TM either never responded or it got deleted before I saw it.

Exact fact may be impossible to get but it seems like LE could have it pretty solid that girls for sure were at the mall.

 

[Valiant]

Well, whole department with greeting cards and such right next to the record department at Murphy's...
It was said (by DA at least that neither paper or envelope matched anything that was at home) but since LE assumed that 9 yo ran away it doesn't seem like they bothered visiting any of the three homes that girls lived at the time.
Theoretically paper and envelope could come from Renee's or Renee's grandma house but at this point rarely anyone is considering that girls had anything to do with the note.

Before that article was published few years ago the only visuals on the letter were video, xero copy shot and some very poor quality pic. It was clearly stated multiple times that there is nothing more in the note, no marks, no nothing... Yet in 2020 there are some tiny numbers visible on the left bottom, near folding. What is that? Was it there all the time or was this piece of evidence handled so poorly that someone used it as writing paper sometime later?

This isn’t really the type of envelope you’d buy at a greeting card store. It’s the type sold in a box of 50 or 100. Lots of places sell them. If she bought a box of envelopes, where are the rest? Did she always carry stamps? If not, why didn’t someone at the Post Office recall selling them stamps?
I think the envelope is a great diversion, just like the letter was, away from what really happened.

 

[Pricklykitty]

Yet when someone pointed out that - just weeks before he took stand and spoke so highely of VB - TM said that nobody was able to place VB at the mall that day, JM's teen friend, same who was with her at the mall and was part of that planned lunch together said that oh yeah, she heard that VB met with the girls at the mall (by accident, not that to her knowledge it was anything like scheduled meeting). To that TM either never responded or it got deleted before I saw it.

Exact fact may be impossible to get but it seems like LE could have it pretty solid that girls for sure were at the mall.

TM just like all the other players have hazy memories as and when it suits them imho.

There are lots of facts remembered that support who they want and the scenario they want, but any other time everything is hazy or confusing for them. No surprise this case has been unsolved so long

 

[Ozoner]

Well, whole department with greeting cards and such right next to the record department at Murphy's...
It was said (by DA at least that neither paper or envelope matched anything that was at home) but since LE assumed that 9 yo ran away it doesn't seem like they bothered visiting any of the three homes that girls lived at the time.
Theoretically paper and envelope could come from Renee's or Renee's grandma house but at this point rarely anyone is considering that girls had anything to do with the note.

Before that article was published few years ago the only visuals on the letter were video, xero copy shot and some very poor quality pic. It was clearly stated multiple times that there is nothing more in the note, no marks, no nothing... Yet in 2020 there are some tiny numbers visible on the left bottom, near folding. What is that? Was it there all the time or was this piece of evidence handled so poorly that someone used it as writing paper sometime later?

Those tiny numbers could easily be evidence inventory numbers added by LE.

 

[T rex]

I have seen TM's account of this but have no way of knowing if it is true. He says that VB just went to live in California with his dad for a bit, but then asked TM for bus fare back to FW, and lived with TM for a bit in 1975.
TM is VB's biggest defender. Even when he acknowledges VB asked him to say they were drinking whiskey together the day the trio vanished when it wasn't true, TM says it was just a mistake and carries on with vehement defence of VB.

Reading the way TM defends VB has led me to form the opinion that VB didn't harm the girls in any way, but that he was part of the story.

VB is the same person that had an intrest in both Rachel and Renee. Is that right?

 

[jetsfanjohn]

VB is the same person that had an intrest in both Rachel and Renee. Is that right?

Yep.

 

[Brightchaser47]

That would be the most likely theory IMO too for the same reasons that you have laid out.

Although the venue seems most likely too, I have a couple of nagging doubts, e.g :-

The neighbours not hearing/seeing anything unusual.

The distance from the house to the Mall when it comes to 'staging' the car. I did not realise until recently that it was quite a distance. Still 'doable' in the timeframe though.

Just as LE "can't get the car off the parking lot" at SS, I can't get the (girls') bodies off Minot Ave., for those who believe they met their end at that house. Either:
1. TT had a vehicle present at the house that we don't know about (hidden in/behind the garage, maybe).
2. DA's car was used to move bodies.
3. There was another accomplice whose vehicle was used.
4. The girls were buried on that property.
As I see it, those are the only possibilities.

 

[Brightchaser47]

IIRC, we've been told TT and DA reIationship took place between marriages to ST and RA. Not sure how accurate that is. I, too, am curious as to how well DA and ST knew each other.

DA claimed to have never met ST's family (post by  Deige, thread 1). She never specified how well she knew ST. She said Rachel only knew TT's ex through encounters when picking up/dropping off little ST.

 

[Valiant]

Just as LE "can't get the car off the parking lot" at SS, I can't get the (girls') bodies off Minot Ave., for those who believe they met their end at that house. Either:
1. TT had a vehicle present at the house that we don't know about (hidden in/behind the garage, maybe).
2. DA's car was used to move bodies.
3. There was another accomplice whose vehicle was used.
4. The girls were buried on that property.
As I see it, those are the only possibilities.

5. The girls and the Oldsmobile were all at the Minot house. The girls were removed in the car before the car was planted.
Not saying that’s what happened, but it could have.

 

[T rex]

So on the day in question Rachel and Renee try to get TM to go with them but he declines. They then go to SS where it's likely they meet VB who is TM's good friend.
Now my mind drifts to the party that Renee was suppose to attend that night and I think TM too. Could there be someone else that was expected to be at that party that didn't show? Or could there have been someone there that said something that they seemingly shouldn't have known yet? This person could be VB himself or someone else that had some knowledge of what had happened.

 

[beubeubeu]

Those tiny numbers could easily be evidence inventory numbers added by LE.

Partially crossed over, tiny numbers written ON the actual piece of evidence in missing kids case should easily qualify as a crime IMO.

To be clear, I mean this:



Zoomed:



Zoomed and turned:



0 2
?? (weirdly crossed over with some sort of "W" shaped thing "9" or "5") 8 2 3 (another number on the fold, possibly 9, 4, 5 or another 8)
And something tiny below that

 

[Brightchaser47]

5. The girls and the Oldsmobile were all at the Minot house. The girls were removed in the car before the car was planted.
Not saying that’s what happened, but it could have.

Good point. I thought about that, too,  but it would require either a very clean kill, or very thorough clean-up. The car was seemingly immaculate. I'm not wild about that theory. But, as you stated, it could have happened.

 

[FW_Froggy]

Partially crossed over, tiny numbers written ON the actual piece of evidence in missing kids case should easily qualify as a crime IMO.

To be clear, I mean this:

View attachment 408118

Zoomed:

View attachment 408119

Zoomed and turned:

View attachment 408120

0 2
?? (weirdly crossed over with some sort of "W" shaped thing "9" or "5") 8 2 3 (another number on the fold, possibly 9, 4, 5 or another 8)
And something tiny below that

Looks to me like plastic is laid on top of the paper and all that writing is on the plastic.

 

[beubeubeu]

1. The way I read your first question/statement is that you have found it weird that "it wasn't serious or affecting them that much in December 1974" considering the drama of TT'S love life with both sisters in a short period of time. And that if TT was involved with Rachel before his first marriage, by December 1974 Rachel and DA are cool with it.

Did I get that right?

It's possible they knew each other or dated before. I just don't think anything was cool in December of 1974. Do you mean the way DA described it or think it's minimized? I thought the fight at the bowling alley was supposed to be about their triangle but can't remember now.

2. I completely picture men in their mid twenties and up. I picture the one or two older guys that end up hanging with teens, buying the beer, renting the hotel room for a party, etc. Maybe there was a really rotten one in the bunch.

I can imagine completely not serious relationship that went as far as quick engagement, ending with breakup and marriage between the guy and sister of ex-fiance with all three people being okay with it and not having any jealousy, resentment or affection related issues between them... ending up living together not so long after just cause the "third wheel" had no other options.
It was discussed left and right, and even thou majority seems to be suspecting that something was still going on between the ex-fiances there were also people (quite a few) saying that's pretty much exactly what they did in their youth: lived with ex and their new partner for a period of time, while not having any other place to go than their "home" which was such a nightmare that they just wouldn't come back.

What I find weird is that with one vague info about Renee asking her dad about dating VB it gets so easily concluded that she had to ask this question while dating TM (while it could happen long before that).
And just because of that I wonder if it wasn't like that with TT & DA.
Yeah, it would be very easy to clear that up with one simple statement... but that doesn't appear to be their way of doing things, so I'm considering it as possibility too.

2. Yet at least the guy who reported the sighting of girls in security guard's car at 11:30 PM was ex cop, significantly older, and claiming that for the longest time he had no idea that search is still going on. Which makes him look exactly as sketchy as everyone else in this story.

 

[beubeubeu]

Love Trumps All (verified family member) said DA took TT to Bowling. On DA's 40 questions she answered from DJ. On question #21 DA said TT did not come to Minot before bowling and DA said she did not see TT till after he got through bowling.

Love Trumps All seemed to be almost as confused about the details of the story as everyone else despite having much better insight.

 

[beubeubeu]

There's a post by  Deige (thread 1, pg 15, post 287) that has some interesting info (including where the mail kiosk was) about TT and Rachel.

It seems to match the other description, but no picture from the right time and angle to spot the exact thing.

 

[beubeubeu]

This isn’t really the type of envelope you’d buy at a greeting card store. It’s the type sold in a box of 50 or 100. Lots of places sell them. If she bought a box of envelopes, where are the rest? Did she always carry stamps? If not, why didn’t someone at the Post Office recall selling them stamps?
I think the envelope is a great diversion, just like the letter was, away from what really happened.

Back in the day lots of people carried some stamps in their wallets.
The info about the envelope is very interesting. So it wasn't the type of envelope that could be purchased along with Christmas card?

 

[T rex]

Back in the day lots of people carried some stamps in their wallets.
The info about the envelope is very interesting. So it wasn't the type of envelope that could be purchased along with Christmas card?

I wonder if there was any chance that TT would have had any self addressed stamped envelopes laying around. I remember people sometimes used to hand them out as a courtesy, kind of like a business card or something.

 

[beubeubeu]

Looks to me like plastic is laid on top of the paper and all that writing is on the plastic.

Can you try to write something this small on plastic, using blue ballpoint pen? Or any other pen that would look even remotely similar?

 

[Ozoner]

Can you try to write something this small on plastic, using blue ballpoint pen? Or any other pen that would look even remotely similar?

I have written on plastic with ballpoint pen. That looks like it could be from a ball-point pen or a felt-tip pen. I can't tell for certain, but it does look like it might continue past the edge of the paper slightly, which would mean that it's on the paper. I could be seeing some kind of artifact from the digitization of the image, though.