TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

[FW_Froggy]

If there were any pictures of all three girls together (and even a fourth or fifth person), that might settle the question of whether they were wearing coats. There weren't any in the Olds. They were either wearing them when they "left with someone they trusted", or they were never wearing them.

If they disappeared with coats or without coats what does that mean?

 

[Pricklykitty]

If they disappeared with coats or without coats what does that mean?

If they had coats it adds credibility to ST's account of seeing them wrap up before heading out. If they dont have coats it shows her version can't be right.

 

[Tyra1003]

FW Cat was pretty adamant about TT being left a truck by his parents. VI insiders on his behalf say it wasn’t so.

Did anyone ever find any proof on either? The talk about a second vehicle kind of lost its steam after the first couple threads.

 

[FW_Froggy]

FW Cat was pretty adamant about TT being left a truck by his parents. VI insiders on his behalf say it wasn’t so.

Did anyone ever find any proof on either? The talk about a second vehicle kind of lost its steam after the first couple threads.

I just remember talk of the Purple Javelin (muscle car) that he got on his 16th Birthday.

 

[Brightchaser47]

DeBardeleben was ruled out I'm pretty sure, months later and earlier he was in FW but almost certainly not in December. But he wasn't the only one like that.

Regarding DeBardeleben--Deleted Member 165916 (thread 3, pg 34, post 663):"I've read everything there is on that subject. Many coincidental things that made him a POI. It was thoroughly and vigorously investigated. Both a dead man and a dead issue. IMO"

So, you were right, and that settles the DeBardeleben discussion (yay).

 

[Brightchaser47]

According to kettlecorn, Verified Family Insider (thread 3, pg 34, post 661):
"(ST) picked Shawn up on the 23rd. I do not know those details. I know the plan was for her to get him on the 23rd and have him for the 24th and have him back home to TT for Christmas Day".
So we have a possible discrepancy in DA's story.

 

[Tyra1003]

FW Cat was pretty adamant about TT being left a truck by his parents. VI insiders on his behalf say it wasn’t so.

Did anyone ever find any proof on either? The talk about a second vehicle kind of lost its steam after the first couple threads.

I went back to try to look. FM Cat says he was left the Oldsmobile the girls were in and that he had a personal vehicle at the time of his parents deaths. Sorry for any confusion on my part.
It was a lot of reading in 3 days. I don’t know how to quote/carry over from old threads. It’s thread #2, first page.

 

[Brightchaser47]

According to kettlecorn, Verified Family Insider (thread 3, pg 34, post 661):
"(ST) picked Shawn up on the 23rd. I do not know those details. I know the plan was for her to get him on the 23rd and have him for the 24th and have him back home to TT for Christmas Day".
So we have a possible discrepancy in DA's story.

Unless it's a certainty that ST picked up Shawn from Minot on the 23rd, I'm wondering if he got picked up by Mama, at the bowling alley, later that night.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I wonder if everyone's old itemized phone records are in the police evidence room.

Those would be very telling. Phone records alone would go a long way in solving this case, IMO.

 

[Brightchaser47]

In reading through old threads/posts, I keep seeing the phrase "LE knows exactly what happened, but they can't prove it" (and variations of that). How can they be that certain, if indeed, they have no bodies? I'm not criticizing LE-- just trying to figure out a few things.
Also, I'd like anyone's thoughts on that newspaper article (Marshall News Messenger, Wed July 2,1975) mentioning JS's phone conversations with unknown male, who claims to have knowledge of girls' whereabouts. He does not indicate whether they are dead or alive. His "terms" were 1)reward money, 2) he'd  only turn himself in to/deal with the District Attorney, and 3) only that, on the understanding he'd get full immunity from prosecution of any involvement he may have had in the girls' disappearance. When the DA stated such immunity would  not extend to involvement in their deaths, "negotiations" were over, and the man refused to meet with anyone.

 

[T rex]

In reading through old threads/posts, I keep seeing the phrase "LE knows exactly what happened, but they can't prove it" (and variations of that). How can they be that certain, if indeed, they have no bodies? I'm not criticizing LE-- just trying to figure out a few things.
Also, I'd like anyone's thoughts on that newspaper article (Marshall News Messenger, Wed July 2,1975) mentioning JS's phone conversations with unknown male, who claims to have knowledge of girls' whereabouts. He does not indicate whether they are dead or alive. His "terms" were 1)reward money, 2) he'd  only turn himself in to/deal with the District Attorney, and 3) only that, on the understanding he'd get full immunity from prosecution of any involvement he may have had in the girls' disappearance. When the DA stated such immunity would  not extend to involvement in their deaths, "negotiations" were over, and the man refused to meet with anyone.

I always thought it was possible that the whole informant thing was just a Jon Swaim tactic. It could have been for several reasons, to generate publicity, to help get him into the case file and/or to drive a wedge between some people.
On the other hand if the informant was real it's possible they wound up dead somewhere.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I always thought it was possible that the whole informant thing was just a Jon Swaim tactic. It could have been for several reasons, to generate publicity, to help get him into the case file and/or to drive a wedge between some people.
On the other hand if the informant was real it's possible they wound up dead somewhere.

It could've been for publicity, or to "drive a wedge", but I don't see how it would get him access to the case file.
If the informant  was real, he was playing "very hard to get"--seventeen pay phones? Then he apparently didn't trust Swaim enough to meet with him...

 

[FW_Froggy]

I always thought it was possible that the whole informant thing was just a Jon Swaim tactic. It could have been for several reasons, to generate publicity, to help get him into the case file and/or to drive a wedge between some people.
On the other hand if the informant was real it's possible they wound up dead somewhere.

I'm with you I think Swaim was just trolling there seeing if he could catch a fish.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I'm with you I think Swaim was just trolling there seeing if he could catch a fish.

That's some pretty elaborate trolling. Did he study theater/drama, before becoming a P.I.?

 

[T rex]

That's some pretty elaborate trolling. Did he study theater/drama, before becoming a P.I.?

I don't know if he studied it but he probably could have taught it.

 

[Pricklykitty]

I think it was likely a bit of a bluff and fishing game with JS. Say he suspected X of knowing what happened, but couldn't get them to talk. By securing immunity for his supposed informant ahead of time, he could then approach X and prove he could protect them for helping him solve the case. Unfortunately for Swaim either it wasn't enough to convince X, or X was involved in the death of the girls so immunity wouldn't cover them.
I do think that he may have had someone in mind though that he hoped this tactic would work on.

 

[Brightchaser47]

It's been said he died because he "was getting too close to the truth" of what happened to the girls. Also, he allegedly had "dirt" on several "important" people. Whether those claims are true or not, is it  possible that a "dirty cop" (or detective) was involved in either his death or the girls' disappearance?

 

[Valiant]

It's been said he died because he "was getting too close to the truth" of what happened to the girls. Also, he allegedly had "dirt" on several "important" people. Whether those claims are true or not, is it  possible that a "dirty cop" (or detective) was involved in either his death or the girls' disappearance?

It's always possible, but what would have been the motive of a dirty cop in taking the girls?

 

[tilomagnet]

From my impression Swaim made a ton of powerful enemies not related to the missing trio, so in case he was suicided there are plenty of suspects. But anyway, it would be highly interesting what Swaims ultimate theory or opinion was who was responsible for the disappearance. RW apparently thought quite highly of JS too.

 

[Brightchaser47]

From my impression Swaim made a ton of powerful enemies not related to the missing trio, so in case he was suicided there are plenty of suspects. But anyway, it would be highly interesting what Swaims ultimate theory or opinion was who was responsible for the disappearance. RW apparently thought quite highly of JS too.

If he was capable of gathering that level/amount of "intel", he probably was onto whoever took the girls. As for having  all his files destroyed, I find that highly suspicious. I can understand why RW liked him-- he took action.