TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #8

[Brightchaser47]

DA claimed to be "home all day" (presumably alone). She also claimed SM came and left in the wee hours. DJ (whose source was allegedly TT) claimed SM's car was at Minot that morning and evening. ST claimed the girls came and left, and  she came and left. TT claimed to be at work all day.
This is all speculation, but...I'm about willing to bet the farm that DA, SM, ST, and the girls were  all at Minot together, and something happened. TT was misled, initially, but couldn't say much when he did realize what happened, because he was involved in something illegal at the shop, and DA and ST knew about it. As I've said before, no one wanted to go to prison. Sooo, they basically swore each other to silence (blackmail, if you will), and CA and KA helped dispose of bodies. Again, speculation, but I think it's plausible.

 

[beubeubeu]

DA claimed to be "home all day" (presumably alone). She also claimed SM came and left in the wee hours. DJ (whose source was allegedly TT) claimed SM's car was at Minot that morning and evening. ST claimed the girls came and left, and  she came and left. TT claimed to be at work all day.
This is all speculation, but...I'm about willing to bet the farm that DA, SM, ST, and the girls were  all at Minot together, and something happened. TT was misled, initially, but couldn't say much when he did realize what happened, because he was involved in something illegal at the shop, and DA and ST knew about it. As I've said before, no one wanted to go to prison. Sooo, they basically swore each other to silence (blackmail, if you will), and CA and KA helped dispose of bodies. Again, speculation, but I think it's plausible.

If only that scenario would bring more answers than doubts... but it doesn't.
SM's car there in the morning and everning. But where was he? With DA? Then why would Rachel came back there with Renee and Julie?

 

[Brightchaser47]

If only that scenario would bring more answers than doubts... but it doesn't.
SM's car there in the morning and everning. But where was he? With DA? Then why would Rachel came back there with Renee and Julie?

Those are valid questions. SM's car being there  doesn't guarantee SM was there. Some have speculated that the girls came back to Minot from the mall to visit, before Rachel took the other two home.
Having said that, I'd always assumed going to Seminary South was planned. We've been told ad nauseam that the girls "planned to do some last- minute Christmas shopping at Seminary South, to get presents for little ST,"etc.. But, apparently the decision to go to Seminary South was made at Gordon, when Rachel went to pick up Renee.
According to an interview, JW was unaware of any plans beyond the stop at A/N. That would explain why she started calling around, looking for the girls so early (around 2 p.m.)-- Renee didn't have permission to go to the mall.
It occurs to me that maybe the girls decided to go on to the mall after A/N, to kill time, because Rachel knew SM was at her house, that he was after DA, and she hoped he and DA would both be gone when she got back. Then maybe Rachel brought the girls back to Minot, in case SM and DA were still there, because maybe having them there made her uncomfortable, and TT wasn't home.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

Those are valid questions. SM's car being there  doesn't guarantee SM was there. Some have speculated that the girls came back to Minot from the mall to visit, before Rachel took the other two home.
Having said that, I'd always assumed going to Seminary South was planned. We've been told ad nauseam that the girls "planned to do some last- minute Christmas shopping at Seminary South, to get presents for little ST,"etc.. But, apparently the decision to go to Seminary South was made at Gordon, when Rachel went to pick up Renee.
According to an interview, JW was unaware of any plans beyond the stop at A/N. That would explain why she started calling around, looking for the girls so early (around 2 p.m.)-- Renee didn't have permission to go to the mall.
It occurs to me that maybe the girls decided to go on to the mall after A/N, to kill time, because Rachel knew SM was at her house, that he was after DA, and she hoped he and DA would both be gone when she got back. Then maybe Rachel brought the girls back to Minot, in case SM and DA were still there, because maybe having them there made her uncomfortable, and TT wasn't home.

Going to the Mall to kill a bit of time, as you suggested makes sense to me (I do thing that they made it to the Mall, late morning, IMO, a few hours before they were due to meet friends).

Not sure what goes down to get all three 'disappeared' back at Minot though, if it is not a scenario where someone 'loses it' in a fit of rage.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Not sure what goes down to get all three 'disappeared' back at Minot though, if it is not a scenario where someone 'loses it' in a fit of rage.

It's possible that DA, ST (and possibly SM) were at Minot involved with drugs. At some point, (whether after A/N or the mall), the girls stopped at Minot, where they were offered something, or accidentally ingested something, that proved fatal.

 

[Brightchaser47]

If the girls' death was a drug-related accident at Minot, there may've been a bit of a panic, and DA could've called on her dad for assistance. . I propose that when DA and TT were MIA that night (between bowling and the mall parking lot), DA was leading TT on a wild goose chase of looking for Rachel someplace she knew her sister wouldn't be.
Meanwhile, ST was back at Minot, manning the phone, and CA was disposing of the girls' bodies at a well site, somewhere. This is all speculation, of course, but if true, it would explain:
*what CA, DA, ST, and TT were all doing that night
*why FA believed for years that CA went to the mall lot, and why he allegedly came home so feverishly ill
* how FA, DA, and TT could all say they don't know where the girls are
* why the bodies haven't been found (there are  thousands of non-producing gas wells in Texas, that have been abandoned for decades, and we don't know which well sites were built by A Trucking

 

[FW_Froggy]

If the girls' death was a drug-related accident at Minot, there may've been a bit of a panic, and DA could've called on her dad for assistance. . I propose that when DA and TT were MIA that night (between bowling and the mall parking lot), DA was leading TT on a wild goose chase of looking for Rachel someplace she knew her sister wouldn't be.
Meanwhile, ST was back at Minot, manning the phone, and CA was disposing of the girls' bodies at a well site, somewhere. This is all speculation, of course, but if true, it would explain:
*what CA, DA, ST, and TT were all doing that night
*why FA believed for years that CA went to the mall lot, and why he allegedly came home so feverishly ill
* how FA, DA, and TT could all say they don't know where the girls are
* why the bodies haven't been found (there are  thousands of non-producing gas wells in Texas, that have been abandoned for decades, and we don't know which well sites were built by A Trucking

If I had to start searching somewhere I'd start with the relatives property from back in 1974.

 

[Brightchaser47]

If I had to start searching somewhere I'd start with the relatives property from back in 1974.

Is there a piece of property that's been undisturbed for 49 years?

 

[FW_Froggy]

Is there a piece of property that's been undisturbed for 49 years?

Yes CA's brother's property, many many acres around Marshal, Texas.

 

[Brightchaser47]

If I had to start searching somewhere I'd start with the relatives property from back in 1974.

I found a piece of property that (IMO) holds lots of potential for hiding bodies, but LE would need Probable Cause to search it.

 

[beubeubeu]

TT mentioned expecting a ransom note, but not getting one. It's possible one  did come in that envelope, but he kept mum about it, and it was replaced with the "letter", which was given to LE.

Yeah, but why replace something that nobody else saw in the first place?
And who would kidnap three girls to blackmail just one husband?

 

[Brightchaser47]

Yeah, but why replace something that nobody else saw in the first place?
And who would kidnap three girls to blackmail just one husband?

Good points.

 

[Brightchaser47]

There seem to be elements of truth to all the alibis and statements given in this case, and yet, those same alibis and statements are all over the place. Sooo, here's what I think happened:
Sunday night:
*Renee gets permission to go to A/N with Rachel the next day
 Monday  morning:
*CA is at home, getting a cancer treatment and resting
* TT goes to work, DA and SM are at Minot, Rachel goes to pick up Renee at Gordon
*Renee decides she wants to go on to the mall after A/N, Julie gets permission to go along
Monday, shortly after noon:
*ST shows up at Minot
*the girls hit A/N, go on to the mall
*the girls are seen with VB at the mall (whether he rode with them or met them is irrelevant)
A bit later:
*the girls and VB head back to Minot, where DA, SM, ST are involved with drugs
*a drug-related fatality occurs, involving the girls-- SM,DA,ST,VB are all witnesses (or at least present when it occurs)
*JW starts calling around, looking for Renee
Monday evening:
*an initial search is made for the car, but car is not located
*ST and DA stage the car
*CA is called, drives to Minot, picks up the girls' bodies, drives to Hatley Road in Marshall, where girls are buried
*TT comes home from work, goes bowling
*car located, LE called
Later that night:
*DA picks up TT from bowling alley, takes him on wild goose chase of "looking for the girls", but not finding them
*DA and TT appear at mall parking lot
*Missing Persons reports taken
*families disperse, to wait by the phone, RW and companion set up watch over car
*CA returns home from disposing of the girls' bodies
Tuesday morning:
*"letter" is taken to A residence, LE called
Sometime later:
envelope produced
Note: Many of these events overlap and I may be off a bit on the timeline, but the general idea is there. It isn't foolproof,  but it does explain:
*where people were, and when (roughly)
*why all these people claimed to have seen the girls that day, but  none of them admit to seeing each other
*how so many people could have knowledge of the girls' fate, but bodies still not found (the only people who knew exactly where the girls ended up are dead)
*how Organized Crime involvement is not necessary for this to have remained the puzzle it has been
Again, this is all just speculation...

 

[jetsfanjohn]

There seem to be elements of truth to all the alibis and statements given in this case, and yet, those same alibis and statements are all over the place. Sooo, here's what I think happened:
Sunday night:
*Renee gets permission to go to A/N with Rachel the next day
 Monday  morning:
*CA is at home, getting a cancer treatment and resting
* TT goes to work, DA and SM are at Minot, Rachel goes to pick up Renee at Gordon
*Renee decides she wants to go on to the mall after A/N, Julie gets permission to go along
Monday, shortly after noon:
*ST shows up at Minot
*the girls hit A/N, go on to the mall
*the girls are seen with VB at the mall (whether he rode with them or met them is irrelevant)
A bit later:
*the girls and VB head back to Minot, where DA, SM, ST are involved with drugs
*a drug-related fatality occurs, involving the girls-- SM,DA,ST,VB are all witnesses (or at least present when it occurs)
*JW starts calling around, looking for Renee
Monday evening:
*an initial search is made for the car, but car is not located
*ST and DA stage the car
*CA is called, drives to Minot, picks up the girls' bodies, drives to Hatley Road in Marshall, where girls are buried
*TT comes home from work, goes bowling
*car located, LE called
Later that night:
*DA picks up TT from bowling alley, takes him on wild goose chase of "looking for the girls", but not finding them
*DA and TT appear at mall parking lot
*Missing Persons reports taken
*families disperse, to wait by the phone, RW and companion set up watch over car
*CA returns home from disposing of the girls' bodies
Tuesday morning:
*"letter" is taken to A residence, LE called
Sometime later:
envelope produced
Note: Many of these events overlap and I may be off a bit on the timeline, but the general idea is there. It isn't foolproof,  but it does explain:
*where people were, and when (roughly)
*why all these people claimed to have seen the girls that day, but  none of them admit to seeing each other
*how so many people could have knowledge of the girls' fate, but bodies still not found (the only people who knew exactly where the girls ended up are dead)
*how Organized Crime involvement is not necessary for this to have remained the puzzle it has been
Again, this is all just speculation...

Good timeline that certainly ticks a lot of boxes about people's movements.

JMO, I don't think one of the girls OD'ing on drugs would cause a situation where all three would have to disappear, as a result (even if they had been all together earlier that day). I think this case is more about a family situation that went bad, involving person(s) close to the eldest girl.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Good timeline that certainly ticks a lot of boxes about people's movements.

JMO, I don't think one of the girls OD'ing on drugs would cause a situation where all three would have to disappear, as a result (even if they had been all together earlier that day). I think this case is more about a family situation that went bad, involving person(s) close to the eldest girl.

I didn't mean to imply that only one of the girls OD'd. I believe all three died of an accidental overdose, although not necessarily in the exact same way (i.e. different drugs or ingested in different ways).

 

[Brightchaser47]

Deleted by me

 

[T rex]

I didn't mean to imply that only one of the girls OD'd. I believe all three died of an accidental overdose, although not necessarily in the exact same way (i.e. different drugs or ingested in different ways).

But what are the chances that the three people that got into a car that morning to go to SS just happened to be the same ones that OD in a house full of people?
I think it would more have to fall in line with one of RA and DJ's theories, that is something happened to one of the girls and the others were compelled to leave but I'm not really big on that either.

 

[Brightchaser47]

JMO, I don't think one of the girls OD'ing on drugs would cause a situation where all three would have to disappear, as a result (even if they had been all together earlier that day). I think this case is more about a family situation that went bad, involving person(s) close to the eldest girl.

If TT (or even DA) were responsible for the demise of one or all three girls, how would they secure the silence of everyone else on the matter for all these years? None of these people were wealthy enough for blackmail to come into play, really.
And how do we explain the fact that  nobody in this case who claimed to have seen the girls or been at Minot can give a straight answer (that makes sense), as to their whereabouts, if they weren't somehow involved?

 

[Brightchaser47]

But what are the chances that the three people that got into a car that morning to go to SS just happened to be the same ones that OD in a house full of people?

Remember that the 'adults' who were at that house that day were just that-- adults. We don't know really, what substances were available, being used, in the air, etc. Merely being in the presence of a "cloud" of something being smoked could make a child or young teen (or even an adult who didn't use drugs) very sick (voice of experience).

 

[Brightchaser47]

Good timeline that certainly ticks a lot of boxes about people's movements.

JMO, I don't think one of the girls OD'ing on drugs would cause a situation where all three would have to disappear, as a result (even if they had been all together earlier that day). I think this case is more about a family situation that went bad, involving person(s) close to the eldest girl.

One nice thing about the idea that CA disposed of the girls' bodies at Marshall, is that whether the girls were murdered or overdosed on drugs, we have a plausible place to look for bodies.