TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #8

[Brightchaser47]

Yes, at the time this occurred mail could have made that trip. We could mail a letter to my grandparents who lived an hour away and they’d get it the next day back then. Eventually everything went to a central hub for processing and it was no longer next day.

Some time ago on here, it was posted by someone from that area that although the letter could've been received the next day, mail delivery for that particular neighborhood was typically in the afternoon. TT and DA claimed that TT retrieved it from the mailbox that morning.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Rather than rehash whether that envelope actually went through the mail, I'd like to know why in all these years, no one outside LE has ever seen the  front of said envelope, and why absolutely no one (not even expert analysts) is permitted anywhere near it. I find those two facts very suspect. jmo

 

[Brightchaser47]

Interesting to note that a serial killer in the area during 1974 name Mike (Mike Debardeleben), used the letter writing ruse and also used the security guard (but usually impersonated police) in later crimes he was associated with. Debardeleben was discussed in length on this thread though years ago. One thing to consider is that the suspected rapist for these 3 girls was only 23 and Debardeleben was in his 30s in 1974 and also the local police interviewed this suspect (the 23 year old) and he even admitted picking up the girls, but denied harming them in any way and the police must have had good reason to believe him cause they let him go.

According to the article, there was no physical evidence the girls had been drugged or assaulted. My question is, why would those girls make up something like that? That's a pretty nasty prank, if it didn't happen.

 

[Brightchaser47]

View attachment 448367

View attachment 448368

A couple things that stand out to me here:
*This suspect was held for possible charges by District Attorney, even after being cleared by polygraph. It was the lack of physical evidence that freed him-- not the polygraph. That might also have happened in our case.
* Either FWPD was fairly small at that time or departmental duties were shared and overlapped, because in both this case and the missing Trio, multiple departments (missing persons, homicide, juvenile) were involved, that normally today wouldn't be (imo).
ETA: I wonder if the same individuals who administered/interpreted this polygraph were involved in doing so for our case. DA allegedly claimed some of the questions were inappropriate.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Do you know what these posts had to do with or when they were made? Just a bunch of random stuff or a particular subject and time frame?

I have no idea. Apparently RA wanted the Stuff he deleted GONE Forever.

I really wonder what his motive was in doing that-- whether he was asked to by FWPD, or someone else involved with the case.

 

[beubeubeu]

Some time ago on here, it was posted by someone from that area that although the letter could've been received the next day, mail delivery for that particular neighborhood was typically in the afternoon. TT and DA claimed that TT retrieved it from the mailbox that morning.

If memory serves me right it was some sort of quote from Renee's dad, who was insisting that it was impossible for the mail to be delivered in the morning.
(Not cause he asked some people who were living on that street, not cause one of PI's figured that out, not cause postman or post office worker said so.)
Cause couple years later he, RW lived few streets from Minot and there, then mail was delivered in the afternoon. So he assummed/figured that it was most likely like that on 23rd of December 1974.

 

[Brightchaser47]

If memory serves me right it was some sort of quote from Renee's dad, who was insisting that it was impossible for the mail to be delivered in the morning.
(Not cause he asked some people who were living on that street, not cause one of PI's figured that out, not cause postman or post office worker said so.)
Cause couple years later he, RW lived few streets from Minot and there, then mail was delivered in the afternoon. So he assummed/figured that it was most likely like that on 23rd of December 1974.

It was on an earlier thread on here (WS). I thought I had a screenshot of it, but can't find it right now. The poster claimed to have gone to school with one of the girls, so it wasn't Richard. If I can find it, I'll post.

 

[beubeubeu]

It was on an earlier thread on here (WS). I thought I had a screenshot of it, but can't find it right now. The poster claimed to have gone to school with one of the girls, so it wasn't Richard. If I can find it, I'll post.

It may not be relevant unless it does include Christmas time schedule specifically.

Completely unbelievable for me tbh.
Their exact address was published in newspapers.
Letter's arrival was described and published in newspapers as well.
And what? Like nobody, not one person living on Minot or neighbouring streets nor any post office workers from the area never read that? Never questioned that, never pointed that out?
How likely is that?

 

[Brightchaser47]

It may not be relevant unless it does include Christmas time schedule specifically.

Completely unbelievable for me tbh.
Their exact address was published in newspapers.
Letter's arrival was described and published in newspapers as well.
And what? Like nobody, not one person living on Minot or neighbouring streets nor any post office workers from the area never read that? Never questioned that, never pointed that out?
How likely is that?

That's true, but this case was weird from the get-go imo, and we don't know what did or didn't get reported to police, really. Someone could've mentioned it, and it was ignored. Or there could be notes on it lurking in the case files.

 

[beubeubeu]

According to the article, there was no physical evidence the girls had been drugged or assaulted. My question is, why would those girls make up something like that? That's a pretty nasty prank, if it didn't happen.

According to the articles and narratives from back in the day there was next to no physical evidence of sexual assault happening ever, unless victim was beaten to a bloody pulp and so excessively mutilated it was too hard to deny that assault occured.
Also any evidence that girl or a woman is on drugs works as one way ticket to being seen as irrelevant. Doesn't matter if forced, tricked, poisoned or even murdered with mentioned drugs. Irrelevant victims are not discussed.
So obviously, most publically smeared and portrayed as liars didn't have much "evidence".

 

[Brightchaser47]

According to the articles and narratives from back in the day there was next to no physical evidence of sexual assault happening ever, unless victim was beaten to a bloody pulp and so excessively mutilated it was too hard to deny that assault occured.
Also any evidence that girl or a woman is on drugs works as one way ticket to being seen as irrelevant. Doesn't matter if forced, tricked, poisoned or even murdered with mentioned drugs. Irrelevant victims are not discussed.
So obviously, most publically smeared and portrayed as liars didn't have much "evidence".

I agree it used to be horrible how victims of assault were treated (especially by LE and the courts). But in this case, the hospital that examined the girls concluded there was no evidence. The only reason I can think of for the hospital to falsify this, would be if the accused was someone important and they were trying to avoid scandal. Which, quite frankly is also a possibility in the case of the Trio. jmo

 

[Chypre]

A couple things that stand out to me here:
*This suspect was held for possible charges by District Attorney, even after being cleared by polygraph. It was the lack of physical evidence that freed him-- not the polygraph. That might also have happened in our case.
* Either FWPD was fairly small at that time or departmental duties were shared and overlapped, because in both this case and the missing Trio, multiple departments (missing persons, homicide, juvenile) were involved, that normally today wouldn't be (imo).
ETA: I wonder if the same individuals who administered/interpreted this polygraph were involved in doing so for our case. DA allegedly claimed some of the questions were inappropriate.

Thanks for the reply.
Great insights toward the newspaper articles. I wonder about the effects of overlap between cases and professionals as well. Is there a way to thaw cases by the public coming forward (such as the three girls in that newspaper article coming forward to cold case unit voluntarily to share memories)? Without it turning into a mob?

 

[Brightchaser47]

Thanks for the reply.
Great insights toward the newspaper articles. I wonder about the effects of overlap between cases and professionals as well. Is there a way to thaw cases by the public coming forward (such as the three girls in that newspaper article coming forward to cold case unit voluntarily to share memories)? Without it turning into a mob?

I'm not sure about their memories being taken seriously, tbh, but I'd love to know who the accused was. Sadly, it's possible none of these people are still living. I don't know if a personal ad in a Fort Worth newspaper (or something similar online) would get a response or not. jmo

 

[Brightchaser47]

It keeps bugging me that one of the times DA was accused of lying was regarding to her story about the first time she saw the note. Either she said, or was quotted or someone summarized her story about sitting at Minot home confused and seeing disbelief on TT's face while he got back home.
And then someone said that nope, not the case, cause DA was actually OUTSIDE when TT got the letter from the mailbox. But... there was no clear claim that DA actually SAW IT then.

Was that deemed not credible? Or am I confusing something?
It'd be crazy to have some whitnesses who actually saw TT getting the thing out of the mailbox.
But it feels like there has to be something going on with it THERE, cause it's hard to discard the testimony of the person who allegedly saw the note taped to the door in that house (cause, unless LE was handling their evidence in crazy neglectful ways - piece of transparent tape is visible on the high resol pic of the note).

It's one thing to consider DA lying - obviously.
But that could also mean that possibly TT got something out of the mailbox earlier, but later switched it to the note we all saw (possibly altering the note he found on the bedroom doors)?
OR someone with access to the home, grabbed the note before TT or DA saw it on the door and planted it in their mailbox early morning, hanging out there and pretending they're helping in search (or are there with some other reason)?

Anyone remembers WHEN exactly the person who saw the note taped to the door visited there?

Depending on who you talk to there are different stories about the note. It was told the Note was on the door. Some say the front door in which tape might come into play. Some say the Frig. door where tape would probably not come into play(magnet). A verified insider and her friend went and talked to the people who saw the note awhile back. Maybe she will come on and share that conversation with this group.

One popular version is that DA had previously written part of the note on another occasion, and that's what was seen at Minot on the fridge, etc. Then TT allegedly added to it, before it was taken to the Arnolds and shown to LE on the 24th.

 

[Brightchaser47]

He was the first name that came into RWs mind when the girls disappeared, which does say a lot. This makes sense until the 'Runaway' Letter arrived. To my mind, he can only be responsible if he forced Rachel to write the letter. Most people don't believe Rachel did write the letter.

I do wonder if LE would've questioned VB more aggressively had the letter not entered the equation. We only know he allegedly changed his story after a few rounds with DJ...

Also, I think if he was responsible the A family and TT would have been 'all over him' in the following days. To the best of.my knowledge they weren't.

It would depend on whether they were implicated in whatever happened. The theory of drug involvement has been proposed through the years. Both RA and TT have denied knowing anything about the Fort Worth location of the transmission shop (which makes no sense). Possibly it was being used for something illegal, including drug dealing (a last-ditch effort to 'save the farm', if you will) and VB was involved. If the girls picked up/dropped off someone/something at that location, and something went wrong, TT and his in-laws would be held liable. His real money was tied up for a few more years, and the in-laws were virtually bankrupt. They couldn't afford this mess, so they needed to cover up and 'manufacture evidence'. The car was staged at the mall, and that letter was produced and taken to the in-laws before LE got a glimpse of it.
Maybe the letter was to buy time for VB to leave town (which he did) and/or tie up loose ends, and the narrative of he and Rachel was born to misdirect...Just a thought, and jmo

 

[Brightchaser47]

Remembering Rachel, Renee, and Julie at Christmas. You are not forgotten.

 

[Florent B]

Hello everyone
On this Christmas Day, I'd like to come back to the letter, which was discussed at length in a previous thread, because when I started researching this case, I confess, as a French, I didn't understand what "I'm going to catch it" meant. Was it about a person? If so, why not "him" or "her", or was it a disease, like "to catch a cold"? After many months, and after discovering that Rachel's family came from a town in north-east Texas (now I don't know which), I realized that it could be a meaning that is still used in my region of Normandy. "Je vais me faire attraper" "(I'm going to get caught) "Mon père va m'attraper" (My father is going to catch me).
This linguistic meaning "to get an argument" could have circulated along the Louisiana and Mississippi rivers to the west.
It doesn't really matter who wrote it, just what the author meant. And, on rereading this letter (well, this note), it's obvious that the phrase "The car is in Sears upper lot" was added later (a posteriori). The handwriting is different and the declination (inclination) on the paper is different.
A word about the envelope. My personal conviction, i.e. no facts. Is that the envelope was sent previously by an administration, which does not put a postage stamp, or better, that it was ready and already stamped to send to an administration or company (to get an answer). In France it was usual at the time, in the USA I don't know.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

Remembering Rachel, Renee, and Julie at Christmas. You are not forgotten.

They really need to check the three sets of bones found in 1976. The ages were correct, just that the largest set was ruled as being from a male. They also believed that they were buried there approximately 18 months beforehand, which would tie in with when the girls disappeared.

If they aren't the girls, then who are they ??? Three sets of bones and no one know who they are !!!

 

[Brightchaser47]

They really need to check the three sets of bones found in 1976. The ages were correct, just that the largest set was ruled as being from a male. They also believed that they were buried there approximately 18 months beforehand, which would tie in with when the girls disappeared.

If they aren't the girls, then who are they ??? Three sets of bones and no one know who they are !!!

Absolutely agree!!

 

[Brightchaser47]

They really need to check the three sets of bones found in 1976. The ages were correct, just that the largest set was ruled as being from a male. They also believed that they were buried there approximately 18 months beforehand, which would tie in with when the girls disappeared.

If they aren't the girls, then who are they ??? Three sets of bones and no one know who they are !!!

Absolutely agree!!

We know mistakes have been made in the past regarding gender, but what about dentals? Were they misread also? Because dentals were available for the Trio, and weren't a match to these bones (according to JS). If there's any doubt whatsoever, I'd love to see them retested.