TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #1

[docbh]

the same theories we were throwing around about how SHE got it would apply...i was wondering if someone involved in the funeral or corners office could be "name brokers". Think of the side money that could be made!
Roll this idea around,,,,if someone adopted her illegally, its possible the person who arranged the adoption had " a list" that they could pull from when getting paperwork arranged.... so it looked legit on paper...they had the "birth parents" copy of the birth certificate.... and they could just say it was a closed adoption...

I always kind of speculated the Hollywood lawyer - the one who was disbarred for whatever ethical offenses and has sense passed, if memory serves - was likely the "broker" or adviser in helping her set up the BST/FLEK transition, but that's all :moo:

I figure she kept the BST paperwork and all the other documents either because someone told her to or because that was the basis for her new identity. If anyone ever questioned her about her switch from BST to FLEK, she'd need that BST birth certificate to fall back on, or it would've come in handy - at least in the beginning before the internet age.

All :moo:

docbh

 

[docbh]

This confuses me because I thought once you ran the profile, it was like a photocopy to be stored and could be compared via computer...but I did not press the issue. I am not a lab geek ( oh how I wish I was)

Being a lab geek myself, I think there's at least two possibilities at play. One is that there's a variety of profiles that can be run and compared - different combinations of short tandem repeats (STRs), Y chromosome for paternal lineage, mitochondrial sequencing for maternal, etc. Because of this, and depending on when it was done, they may be wanting to add resolution by testing more loci...

Second possibility is if it is a medical legal case, depending on how the first profile was handled, if chain of custody was maintained properly, other reasons, they may want or require to have samples retested from both parties with appropriate chain of custody and perhaps processed at the same time, same techniques, etc to satisfy medical-legal requirements.

That's my :twocents:

 

[Magnum P.E.]

I have a theory and I'm sorry in advance if I'm putting it in the wrong place or if it's been discussed but there's just so much in these threads!

We know that FLEK ordered her BST birth cert in 1988, but how do we known she assumed that ID in that year? Perhaps shes lived her life thus far as BST and she orders her birth cert for whatever reason and discovers in fact that her parents or whoever raised her gave her that false ID... now she's pissed so she goes and changes her name to LEK bc she wants to own her own identity... and spends the rest of her life trying to find out who she really is?

She's ashamed by the whole thing so she is private and standoffish. And she keeps her research in a lockbox in the closet and asks her husband not to look. And it haunts her her entire life until she can't take it anymore.

Interesting line of thought, but no one has yet turned up evidence of a life as BST. I doubt she could have grown to adulthood as BST without leaving some traces. My money is on the BST identity being a means to change her name to LEK. The resemblance to BST's father gives me pause, though.

 

[shadowdancer]

A slightly different angle on it, tying in the recent discussions about the FLEK really being BST -

Maybe FLEK had been searching for her own identity and had found out that she was actually BST, so she took her identity back. The name change to FLEK would be so she could move on from what clearly would have been a real garbage heap of a situation.

 

[shadowdancer]

Here is another theory to throw into the mix. There is nothing to directly tie FLEK to this woman, but this woman's story involves children turning up from nowhere and then disappearing off again to god only knows where, false birth certificates and a dodgy doctor... http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...an_made_her_a_notorious_american_villain.html

She is suspected of being involved in the abduction of Paul Fronczak, and FLEK would have been of a similar age to Paul. There is a clearly big mystery surrounding the various children in this woman's life. Could one of them have been FLEK? It would explain why FLEK might have been searching for her identity. It would also explain why FLEK wanted to stay under the radar (no announcement in the local paper etc).

 

[Advocate1]

Fire occurred on 12/29/71 - a Wednesday

Oh and if you're looking for sketchy death cert. stuff, check out the abbreviation for Washington state used throughout.

Apparently the only entity that uses that abbreviation is the United States Coast Guard.

That is to funny, I was just about to add this to the sketchy details surrounding the birth certificate! You are right, and I have family in WA state and my grandmothers death certificate has the correct abb. of WA on it and it was issued the same year!! That is just so odd!

 

[Advocate1]

Functionally, she could have been called on to present proof of identity at some point and would have needed the original birth cert as well as the proof of legal name change. But I do agree that her holding onto it in this way, inside a lockbox, suggests it was more meaningful to her. An identity thief wouldn't necessarily tied to an identity the way it appears Lori was. To me, that has to be on account of emotion.

Perhaps someone ought to contact the SSA investigator with a description of the renewed interest in BST's famly: Joseph.Velling@ssa.gov

Velling himself states he thinks FLEK stumbled across the grave when purposefully scouting for an identity to assume. This belief could have biased his line of questioning with the family of BST.

There is a four year gap between children in the Turner family. Ann Marie was born in 1963. The surviving child Terri was born in 1967. The subsequent deceased children were born in 1968 and 1969. Why a 4 year gap? What happened during this time?

There are a ton of possibilities including the chance that a still teenage Rosemary gave birth to another child that is unaccounted for (ie. adoption). Terry Turner, should he have been a serviceman, may have been overseas in Vietnam or stationed at any number of military bases, where fathering a child would not be out of the realm of possibility. They may not have even ever been married or cohabitating at the time of the firstborn, and discontinued their relationship for that period of time. We know that after the fire, at some point, they split and Rosemary remarried. Terry appears to have had two more children after the split that, to me, look similar to FLEK.

Worthy of more investigation, I reckon.

I found something interesting. It appears TT's stepfathers family has ties to the AZ area and texas. It also appears that these people seem to keep bills in TT's mothers name fot some reason as I havent found anything that shows she once lived in AZ. The interesting link I found is that TT's mother shared an AZ number with a man named C.V (withholdimg first and middle name for privacy) Kennedy. There is also a shared address in CA with a J Kennedy and this J Kennedy has shared stuff with some Kennedys in ID who have lived in ID, CA and TX. I really wonder if during that 4 yr gap TT had a child with another woman who may also be close with his relatives on his step dads side. I dont think BST is FLEK but I do think it is very possibly FLEKs half sister and I think she kept all that stuff of BST's because it was her only connection/memories of not just her half siblings but also her father. I cant help but wonder what FLEK meant when she said she had a "horrible childhood." Who knows if she was TT's daughter maybe the mother never told him. Remembet those guidelines you posted to request a birth certificate? Wasnt one of them if you were a sibling? Well if FLEK was TT's daughter then she was a sibling to BST. Honestly I think all 3 of those childrens backgrounds need to be vetted to make sure the other 2 childrens identities werent stolen as well. I say this because I dont believe FLEK did this alone. My theory is that the (failed stock broker) is in prison and FLEK and her Mother needed to go into hiding and so her Mother told her the truth about who her father really was and the plan progressed from there. The only reason I can think for FLEK keeping all that BST stuff and not anything from her true identity is because she had nothing, they had destroyed everything from their past so they wouldnt be found but she held on to the BST stuff because in a way that represented her past, a father and siblings she never knew but they were still her real father and half siblings.

Lord I just read that and it sounds like some twisted lifetime movie, lol. Its only my theory and honestly its work in progress but I believe there is some truth to it. I really do.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Here is another theory to throw into the mix. There is nothing to directly tie FLEK to this woman, but this woman's story involves children turning up from nowhere and then disappearing off again to god only knows where, false birth certificates and a dodgy doctor... http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...an_made_her_a_notorious_american_villain.html

She is suspected of being involved in the abduction of Paul Fronczak, and FLEK would have been of a similar age to Paul. There is a clearly big mystery surrounding the various children in this woman's life. Could one of them have been FLEK? It would explain why FLEK might have been searching for her identity. It would also explain why FLEK wanted to stay under the radar (no announcement in the local paper etc).

This story is beyond amazing and can lead to so many questions about other missing children from that era. OMG. This is just so depressing.

 

[Advocate1]

MY TUNE DID NOT CHANGE!
Did you find out her identity today? NO, YOU DIDN'T DID YOU!!!
:maddening:
There were a lot of ridiculous posts stating that FLEK looked like this person and-on-and-on. People that she had no real resemblance to. People who were no where close to her height, estimated age, skin colour, or eye/hair colour. It was becoming too much.

The Turner FLEK resemblance CANNOT BE IGNORED.There is a valid reason to look into it, the thought that FLEK might be connected to the Turner family one way or another was brought up long before the picture of T.Turner from his younger years. So right there is the difference in case you don't get it!

So No, my tune did not change, it stays the same. It'd be nice to have the Turner's involved for more specific questions and the Ruff family as well. I'm not the detective so I don't know what he was asked, but I still think he should revisit with the Turners and ask some deep and specific questions if he hadn't already done so.

TT may not have all the answers no matter how deep or specific the questions are but he could just do the DNA test and see what happens. You know I get the feeling he is a nice man and the families have remained very close all these years even with divorces and new marriages. Like I said before TT may not of ever been told he had another child if it was with another woman. A reasonable person should have no issue with doing the DBA test expecially if they knew they had "relations" with other woman around that time. I am hoping he does it!!! Why not do it???? If true then FLEK's little girl could have a real chance at knowing her Mom's real father and half siblings! How cool would that be? Some good really would be able to come out of all this!

 

[Advocate1]

Another tidbt I just noticed: there's a sheet of numbers with sets marked d and m. If you look at the BST birth cert it doesnt list birth dates for mom and dad, just ages. Mom is 22, dad is 27. If you look at that sheet of numbers, it looks like sheets figuring out her parents' birth dates. Does anyone else see this or am I nuts?

Not nuts, appears she was trying to figure out BST's parents DOB. I also wonder if she was trying to figure out TT's DOB on that page but from when she was really born.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

I found something interesting. It appears TT's stepfathers family has ties to the AZ area and texas. It also appears that these people seem to keep bills in TT's mothers name fot some reason as I havent found anything that shows she once lived in AZ. The interesting link I found is that TT's mother shared an AZ number with a man named C.V (withholdimg first and middle name for privacy) Kennedy. There is also a shared address in CA with a J Kennedy and this J Kennedy has shared stuff with some Kennedys in ID who have lived in ID, CA and TX. I really wonder if during that 4 yr gap TT had a child with another woman who may also be close with his relatives on his step dads side. I dont think BST is FLEK but I do think it is very possibly FLEKs half sister and I think she kept all that stuff of BST's because it was her only connection/memories of not just her half siblings but also her father. I cant help but wonder what FLEK meant when she said she had a "horrible childhood." Who knows if she was TT's daughter maybe the mother never told him. Remembet those guidelines you posted to request a birth certificate? Wasnt one of them if you were a sibling? Well if FLEK was TT's daughter then shte was a sibling to BST. Honestly I think all 3 of those childrens backgrounds need to be vetted to make sure the other 2 childrens identities werent stolen as well. I say this because I dont believe FLEK did this alone. My theory is that the (failed stock broker) is in prison and FLEK and her Mother needed to go into hiding and so her Mother told her the truth about who her father really was and the plan progressed from there. The only reason I can think for FLEK keeping all that BST stuff and not anything from her true identity is because she had nothing, they had destroyed everything from their past so they wouldnt be found but she held on to the BST stuff because in a way that represented her past, a father and siblings she never knew but they were still her real father and half siblings.

Lord I just read that and it sounds like some twisted lifetime movie, lol. Its only my theory and honestly its work in progress but I believe there is some truth to it. I really do.

I was thinking Lifetime the whole way through,, but there is some reason she did this that we can't ascertain. Something like that could well be true, so don't feel bad for speculating. The simple theories don't seem to work here. And does anyone remember that before the story broke, I half jokingly speculated that she was born a man, which would have accounted for her hands, feet, height, and lack of any evidence for a previous existence?

Why has no one recognized her picture?

 

[neesaki]

I found something interesting. It appears TT's stepfathers family has ties to the AZ area and texas. It also appears that these people seem to keep bills in TT's mothers name fot some reason as I havent found anything that shows she once lived in AZ. The interesting link I found is that TT's mother shared an AZ number with a man named C.V (withholdimg first and middle name for privacy) Kennedy. There is also a shared address in CA with a J Kennedy and this J Kennedy has shared stuff with some Kennedys in ID who have lived in ID, CA and TX. I really wonder if during that 4 yr gap TT had a child with another woman who may also be close with his relatives on his step dads side. I dont think BST is FLEK but I do think it is very possibly FLEKs half sister and I think she kept all that stuff of BST's because it was her only connection/memories of not just her half siblings but also her father. I cant help but wonder what FLEK meant when she said she had a "horrible childhood." Who knows if she was TT's daughter maybe the mother never told him. Remembet those guidelines you posted to request a birth certificate? Wasnt one of them if you were a sibling? Well if FLEK was TT's daughter then she was a sibling to BST. Honestly I think all 3 of those childrens backgrounds need to be vetted to make sure the other 2 childrens identities werent stolen as well. I say this because I dont believe FLEK did this alone. My theory is that the (failed stock broker) is in prison and FLEK and her Mother needed to go into hiding and so her Mother told her the truth about who her father really was and the plan progressed from there. The only reason I can think for FLEK keeping all that BST stuff and not anything from her true identity is because she had nothing, they had destroyed everything from their past so they wouldnt be found but she held on to the BST stuff because in a way that represented her past, a father and siblings she never knew but they were still her real father and half siblings.

Lord I just read that and it sounds like some twisted lifetime movie, lol. Its only my theory and honestly its work in progress but I believe there is some truth to it. I really do.

This actually makes a lot of sense, at least sounds quite plausible to me. Did you find this information on Ancestry.com ? TIA

Take heart, a lot of Lifetime movies are based on truth, lol. :seeya:

 

[SideKick]

Here is a link to the 3 girls grave site.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=113577602&PIpi=84707771

 

[kdgdid]

Here is another theory to throw into the mix. There is nothing to directly tie FLEK to this woman, but this woman's story involves children turning up from nowhere and then disappearing off again to god only knows where, false birth certificates and a dodgy doctor... http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...an_made_her_a_notorious_american_villain.html

She is suspected of being involved in the abduction of Paul Fronczak, and FLEK would have been of a similar age to Paul. There is a clearly big mystery surrounding the various children in this woman's life. Could one of them have been FLEK? It would explain why FLEK might have been searching for her identity. It would also explain why FLEK wanted to stay under the radar (no announcement in the local paper etc).

I read the article....WOW
The View had a interview with the man that was returned to I think it was the Fronczak family as a toddler he found out through DNA that he is not the Paul who was taken from the hospital and has no idea where he came from or who is really is.

 

[shadowdancer]

This story is beyond amazing and can lead to so many questions about other missing children from that era. OMG. This is just so depressing.

I read the article....WOW
The View had a interview with the man that was returned to I think it was the Fronczak family as a toddler he found out through DNA that he is not the Paul who was taken from the hospital and has no idea where he came from or who is really is.

After I read this article, I just had to share it with you guys and not just because I thought of the possible connection to FLEK. It is stories like this one that got me interested in true crime and sleuthing in the first place.

 

[alllads]

Honestly, I tend to think that the reasons why FLEK kept things like the birth certificate were just pragmatism. If she ever needed it for something (as one does once in a while, who knows), it would be a hassle getting a new copy. With more checks these days, asking for a new copy of the birth certificate in the 21st century could easily have lead to discovery (that BST already died a long time ago). So long as she has the copy of the birth certificate, and the name change certificate, SS card, passport... Then she doesn't really have to interact with official bodies for documents, no matter what really. But if she didn't have these items, it would be possible that she would have need of official government bodies again, to get new documents.

Why she kept the scribbled notes and things, I don't know. Maybe she just needed them to refer back to, who knows.

I did like the theory floated a while back, though, that she used an agent for the false identity, or some kind of broker.

Then again, I can't dismiss the resemblance she has with TT, but I don't think that it's out of the possibilities of a coincidence.

 

[Linda9681]

My head hurts after reading that article!


One thing comes to mind... A woman named Linda in Chicago who brokers babies. I've heard that story by a man named Floyd...

 

[socrates2006]

Hi everyone! I have been lurking for forever because I'm so puzzled by this case. Just a thought, because of the Wn. rather than the WA that we think would normally appear on a official death certificate, do we have access to the other siblings death certificates? I would assume they would be identical if legit and the numbers would be in order. Has anyone seen them?

 

[annemc2]

My head hurts after reading that article!


One thing comes to mind... A woman named Linda in Chicago who brokers babies. I've heard that story by a man named Floyd...

hwow:

 

[Linda9681]

hwow:

annemc2 i knew with your avatar pic you would catch that :scared:
There are at least 2 cases of missing girls from that time frame that had alleged abductors with ties to Chicago...