TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

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sunnynz said:
This is an eye opening article about the way young women were frequently kidnapped by the OMG in Florida in the 1970s http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1995-12-17/news/9512160801_1_spaziano-fauss-outlaws/4

This one line caught my eye, regarding a gang member trying to find a new identity for a young woman associated with the gang (this young woman 'played along' with the gang and did as they asked as a matter of survival) "In Youngstown, *advertiser censored** said, she spent a day in the public library looking through obituaries of young women. Sp****o hoped to find someone whose identity *advertiser censored** could assume."
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Wow! Great find sunnynz. The last few lines of the story reminded me of Lori too:
"As Crazy Joe's focus shifted to rounds of federal and state appeals, *advertiser censored*** began to turn her life around. She went to college, became a schoolteacher and later an accountant.

She has lived a quiet life, keeping her past a secret. .....

"She had escaped the life of prostitution and drug use that had trapped and condemned many Outlaw women. For some reason, Sp***o had kept her out of it.

''I played the game, I kept my mouth shut, I danced and made money for the club,'' *advertiser censored*** said. ''I know I'm lucky to be here.''

BBM. Could the dancing that FLEK did have been in private OMG clubs?
 
Magnum P.E. said:
CODIS is actually very limited. For what we are trying to do, any of the commercial DNA services would be better. Much bigger database, and relatives show up. If LE would use forensic genealogy many old cases of UID would be solved.
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I always wish we knew if they had done any surname inference from the DNA or submitted it to Ancestry or 23andme for a relative finder search... might at least narrow things down or find potential cousins or even half siblings... who knows.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 
docbh said:
Can we actually see the profile? Someone comments it is only mtDNA which would only link her to maternal line. Also not sure which company has the biggest database. I'm more familiar with 23andme.
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I don't think they gave us the link to the profile but I have ancestry so I'll search for a user named Jane Doe and see anything comes up. There were discussions in previous threads here about the DNA only being MtDNA. I guess Ancestry recently changed the type of DNA they test for so FLEK's sample may not even be in the system anymore to catch matches there. I hope her daughter submits her DNA someday when she is old enough and wants to find out who her mother was.

ETA: I checked Ancestry members and there are over 25 Jane Does from all over the world :( I guess Velling is not the only one to upload an UID.
 
docbh said:
I always wish we knew if they had done any surname inference from the DNA or submitted it to Ancestry or 23andme for a relative finder search... might at least narrow things down or find potential cousins or even half siblings... who knows.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
The two types of DNA testing are not compatible, if I understand correctly. It has to be a separate sample. LE needs to take forensic genealogy seriously. In most cases they don't seem to. I understand that this WAS done with FLEK but nothing is shared that I know of.
 
Magnum P.E. said:
The two types of DNA testing are not compatible, if I understand correctly. It has to be a separate sample. LE needs to take forensic genealogy seriously. In most cases they don't seem to. I understand that this WAS done with FLEK but nothing is shared that I know of.
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Yep. There are so many different tests that can be done (STRs, SNPs, whole genome, mtDNA, etc) I wish I knew what had been done.

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Gardener1850 said:
I didn't find much else about Kimberly Rae Doss or her family but I found a lot about the outlaws motorcycle gang her mother said kidnapped her. Some interesting events put into KRD and FLEK's timeline:

May 29, 1979: KRD is allegedly seen with the Outlaws (OMG) in Jacksonville, Florida. Her mother claims her uncle owed them money and they took Kimberly as ransom or as payment.
July 4, 1979: 8 Outlaws members are killed in Charlotte, NC.
July 1979--Two weeks after Charlotte killings police arrest one of the people they think is responsible for the murders (an OMG member) in San Bernadino, CA and return him to Charlotte for trial: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article26725426.html
1984: The group Thursdays Child identifies a woman working as a prostitute in Hollywood under the name Kimberly Gardner as Kimberly Sue Doss, missing from Iowa. (Possible wrong Kimberly Doss?)
November 1987: A trial begins in Florida for six key members of OMG: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1989-01-24/news/8901040991_1_racketeering-outlaws-conspiracy-charge
Summer 1988: FLEK appears.
January 1989: The trial of the members of OMG wraps up. Details in the above article. They face between 20 and 45 years in prison. Sentencing set for March or April.
May 1989: Reports of Kimberly Doss being in Sugarland, Texas. Again, it is reported as the Kimberly Doss from Iowa but what if it was the one from Florida?

The most interesting thing, IMO, is the OMG trial in Florida. The news article says that trial would split OMG up for good. If KRD was being held by them or was in hiding from them in Hollywood, then 1988 would have been a good year for her to escape or assume a new identity to avoid being associated with them. JMO.
Click to expand...

sunnynz said:
This is an eye opening article about the way young women were frequently kidnapped by the OMG in Florida in the 1970s http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1995-12-17/news/9512160801_1_spaziano-fauss-outlaws/4

This one line caught my eye, regarding a gang member trying to find a new identity for a young woman associated with the gang (this young woman 'played along' with the gang and did as they asked as a matter of survival) "In Youngstown, *advertiser censored** said, she spent a day in the public library looking through obituaries of young women. Sp****o hoped to find someone whose identity *advertiser censored** could assume."
Click to expand...

Another interesting article on the OMG: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1989-10-24/news/8902050968_1_outlaws-motorcycle-gang-racketeering
Oct 24, 1989: "Big Jim" was sentenced to 50 years but expected to only serve 33 years--that's close to 402 months. Big Jim had previously been incarcerated in Tuscon, AZ. Tuscon is written on the notes page and FLEK had Arizona phone book pages in her lock box.
 
Some pretty horrifying details about how Outlaws controlled women here: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-circuit/1336426.html

"It is the responsibility of the number one old lady to educate a new old lady as to her duties.   Those duties are to work and give her money to her Outlaw man, to do whatever any Outlaw tells her to do with no questions asked, to refrain from taking drugs unless given permission by an Outlaw, and to stay out of trouble in general.   In addition to her other responsibilities, the number one old lady gathers family information about a new old lady which can later be used to threaten the woman should she attempt to run away.
Most old ladies are required to work either as nude dancers or prostitutes to support their Outlaws.
"
It goes on for 3 more paragraphs describing the punishments for trying to run away. If this was Lori's former life I can understand why she would never tell anyone and would be scared to go home to her family too.
 
Gardener1850 said:
Another interesting article on the OMG: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1989-10-24/news/8902050968_1_outlaws-motorcycle-gang-racketeering
Oct 24, 1989: "Big Jim" was sentenced to 50 years but expected to only serve 33 years--that's close to 402 months. Big Jim had previously been incarcerated in Tuscon, AZ. Tuscon is written on the notes page and FLEK had Arizona phone book pages in her lock box.
Click to expand...

don't forget there are two Kimberly Doss's in doe and they Favor to me http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/doss_kimberly.html Kimberly SUE was "KIM GARDNER" not Kimberly Rae Doss
 
I meant to quote Gardners post" above:
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Gardener1850 I didn't find much else about Kimberly Rae Doss or her family but I found a lot about the outlaws motorcycle gang her mother said kidnapped her. Some interesting events put into KRD and FLEK's timeline:

May 29, 1979: KRD is allegedly seen with the Outlaws (OMG) in Jacksonville, Florida. Her mother claims her uncle owed them money and they took Kimberly as ransom or as payment.
July 4, 1979: 8 Outlaws members are killed in Charlotte, NC.
July 1979--Two weeks after Charlotte killings police arrest one of the people they think is responsible for the murders (an OMG member) in San Bernadino, CA and return him to Charlotte for trial: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/new...e26725426.html
1984: The group Thursdays Child identifies a woman working as a prostitute in Hollywood under the name Kimberly Gardner as Kimberly Sue Doss, missing from Iowa. (Possible wrong Kimberly Doss?)
November 1987: A trial begins in Florida for six key members of OMG: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/198...spiracy-charge
Summer 1988: FLEK appears.
January 1989: The trial of the members of OMG wraps up. Details in the above article. They face between 20 and 45 years in prison. Sentencing set for March or April.
May 1989: Reports of Kimberly Doss being in Sugarland, Texas. Again, it is reported as the Kimberly Doss from Iowa but what if it was the one from Florida?

The most interesting thing, IMO, is the OMG trial in Florida. The news article says that trial would split OMG up for good. If KRD was being held by them or was in hiding from them in Hollywood, then 1988 would have been a good year for her to escape or assume a new identity to avoid being associated with them. JMO.
 
and wouldn't they both be in CODIS? forgive me if I missed anything, but I'm being a total airhead today
 
sloane7777 said:
don't forget there are two Kimberly Doss's in doe and they Favor to me http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/doss_kimberly.html Kimberly SUE was "KIM GARDNER" not Kimberly Rae Doss
Click to expand...

Yes, I know. Both Kimberly Doss's also happened to have family in Houston, Texas. Both went missing at age 16 and within 3 years of each other. I'm suggesting it's possible the group Thursday's Child and whoever saw her later in Sugarland, Texas got the wrong Kimberly Doss. If the prostitute Kim Gardner told Thursday's Child workers that she had been gone from home since she was 16 and her real name was Kimberly Doss it would be hard to know which one she was. They didn't have internet back then to just look it up. Gardner was described as much taller than the Iowa KSD and Iowa KSD's mother was sure it was not her daughter. Only details on this seem to be here: https://whereaboutsstillunknown.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/kimberly-s-doss/
A comment there also suggested that Thursday's Child might have the wrong Kimberly Doss. Until I can find more details of those sightings, like a newspaper article, I'm going to think this is likely as well. MOO.

ETA: To add to the confusion, that link above says Kimberly from Iowa sometimes used the alternate birth date of Sept 17, 1963. Iowa's KD was born February 12, 1966. Florida's KD was born Sept 11, 1962.
 
EyesOnSunday said:
Is the below link really the only forum for her on websleuths or am I just not finding it? There is only one post. Sad.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?61230-Kimberly-Rae-Doss-(16)-Jacksonville-FL-1979
Click to expand...

Yes it is pretty sad, but she went missing in 1979 (before internet) and there is almost no additional info on her case online. I may post some of what I found on the OMG on her thread but I would like to have more details on her disappearance like a newspaper article from 1979. One missing site said she was seen with the OMG and another site said her mother claimed the OMG held her for ransom due to her uncle's debt. Was there an eye witness or not? Was there a ransom note? Now I am interested in Kimberly Rae Doss' case and finding her as well.
 
I wonder if it is possible for a new thread to be started to discuss in detail the Kimberly Doss theory? It's amazing all the activity on this thread, and I love reading it all, but I worry about possible good leads getting buried when they are off-topic from the trending theme on this thread at any given time, in cases like this where one specific theory has been directing the conversation for a number of pages. I hope that makes sense, I mean this super respectfully! :)
 
dvo said:
I wonder if it is possible for a new thread to be started to discuss in detail the Kimberly Doss theory? It's amazing all the activity on this thread, and I love reading it all, but I worry about possible good leads getting buried when they are off-topic from the trending theme on this thread at any given time, in cases like this where one specific theory has been directing the conversation for a number of pages. I hope that makes sense, I mean this super respectfully! :)
Click to expand...

I agree. I'm not allowed to start new threads but I'll continue posts about Kimberly Doss in a new thread if it's started. We could also ask a Mod to move the Kimberly Doss posts over to FLEK's "Possible matches" thread if that seems appropriate: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?215625-Possible-matches-for-UID-Longview-TX-woman
I know I've been throwing out a lot of info about Kimberly Doss here but I'm open to FLEK not being her. I'm just trying to get as much info here as possible so we can evaluate that possibility. Hopefully, Namus will tell us if they can rule out KRD.
 
Gardener1850 said:
Yes, I know. Both Kimberly Doss's also happened to have family in Houston, Texas. Both went missing at age 16 and within 3 years of each other. I'm suggesting it's possible the group Thursday's Child and whoever saw her later in Sugarland, Texas got the wrong Kimberly Doss. If the prostitute Kim Gardner told Thursday's Child workers that she had been gone from home since she was 16 and her real name was Kimberly Doss it would be hard to know which one she was. They didn't have internet back then to just look it up. Gardner was described as much taller than the Iowa KSD and Iowa KSD's mother was sure it was not her daughter. Only details on this seem to be here: https://whereaboutsstillunknown.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/kimberly-s-doss/
A comment there also suggested that Thursday's Child might have the wrong Kimberly Doss. Until I can find more details of those sightings, like a newspaper article, I'm going to think this is likely as well. MOO.

ETA: To add to the confusion, that link above says Kimberly from Iowa sometimes used the alternate birth date of Sept 17, 1963. Iowa's KD was born February 12, 1966. Florida's KD was born Sept 11, 1962.
Click to expand...

Well no wonder I get confused so easily....I don't think FLEK will be on any missing list though.... but Thank you for clearing the doss thing up my bf is a Doss and she looks like them too , her sister could be Kim's twin (TX/IA KIM)
 
For those wanting to move the focus back to info on FLEK's case only, would anyone be interested in making a map of FLEK's known address history? I saw a map like this in one of these threads but it did not have all her addresses or other places. Places we could add: The location of her employers, colleges, churches, etc. I'd like to have something like this available for reference but I don't know how to do maps other than the temp maps in google search. Any volunteers?
 
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