Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #2

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Frankly, this scenario makes more sense to me than any of the others.

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My stumbling block on this is...from all accounts MC was extremely family oriented. He was a protector by nature and trade. While Ive never been (or known anyone directly) that was in WPP, I somehow think you can't be forced into it. With that understanding, I think if MC had been a part of, witness to, or had knowledge in something that would lead to his needing to be in WPP, I cannot make myself believe he would leave family behind to become a potential target of whatever evil he is fleeing (what better way to draw you out of hiding than to target the ones you love most)AND put them through the torment of not knowing what became of him.
MOO

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Thank you for your informative post, KTLO. Yes, we very much need a verified attorney to help us out on this thread!

I just wanted to share my thoughts as a layperson:

From your post above:
"For those of you with legal experience, can you clarify this? As I read this document, it states that a death must be certified by an Attending Physician, Medical Examiner, Justice of the Peace or County Judge."
and also:
"I am reading this to mean that first you get the death certified and then you get the certificate. And, only certain people can do this. Is that correct? "

Based on the information at the link you provided at the top of your post, indeed, those are the only people who can certify a death, IMO, but only when there is a body.

One example:
"If the death is by natural causes, the cause of death section of the death certificate should be completed and signed by the physician that was responsible for the care and treatment of the condition or disease process that contributed to the death."

And another example:
"Notify the medical examiner or justice of the peace for an investigation or inquest and cause of death certification if law enforcement or someone else has not already done so if any of the following circumstances exist [HSC 193.005, CCP Art. 49.04, CCP Art. 49.25 Sec. 6]:
• A body was found and the cause and circumstances of the death are unknown.
• The death is believed to be an unnatural death from a cause other than a legal execution (accident, suicide, or homicide).
-SBM for space-"

On the third page of the document you cited, there is a section titled, "MISSING OR UNRECOGNIZABLE REMAINS," which states (BBM):
"Before any certificate can be filed, the person must be declared dead by a District Court in Texas. VSU is not aware of any statute that specifies a time period to wait before having someone declared legally dead. The District Judge makes the determination based on the evidence presented to the court. If a court order is obtained, a Court-Ordered Delayed Certificate of Death must be presented to the County Probate Court Judge in duplicate. The date of death on these types of forms may be completed to show "Presumed" or "Declared" dead with the date the judge determines to be the date of death. Once the Court-Ordered Delayed Certificates of Death are signed by the judge, one copy should be filed with the county clerk and the other copy with State VSU.

Looking at PaPaw's estate probate case history, it appears this is exactly how PaPaw was declared deceased and his certificate of death was issued:

View attachment 121013
 
Positive outcomes! And if someone tracks down the car, maybe MC will be found driving it? I know. Big time wishful thinking. :scared:
I really like this idea

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My stumbling block on this is...from all accounts MC was extremely family oriented. He was a protector by nature and trade. While Ive never been (or known anyone directly) that was in WPP, I somehow think you can't be forced into it. With that understanding, I think if MC had been a part of, witness to, or had knowledge in something that would lead to his needing to be in WPP, I cannot make myself believe he would leave family behind to become a potential target of whatever evil he is fleeing (what better way to draw you out of hiding than to target the ones you love most)AND put them through the torment of not knowing what became of him.
MOO

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Good points I was thinking about that as well

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Has anyone searched or checked near other properties Pawpaw owed?

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Has anyone searched or checked near other properties Pawpaw owed?Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk
There have been no 'official' searches on his other properties that I have been able to find. I'm not sure if some of his family and friends have searched it on their own or not. Maybe VI will let us know.
 
A curious question:
What lab can get a DNA result in two weeks? Here in Texas, our lab stuff goes to the Texas Department of Public Safety. It takes weeks to process through. So how did HCSO get a results, and speak about it in the press conference on March 22nd? [emoji848]


*All statements are of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*
 
A curious question:
What lab can get a DNA result in THREE DAYS? Here in Texas, our lab stuff goes to the Texas Department of Public Safety. It takes weeks to process through. So how did HCSO get a results, and speak about it in the press conference on March 22nd? [emoji848]


*All statements are of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

I was wondering that too, there is another case here on WS, Kaytlynn Carghill, she was found in a landfill dead around the end of June I believe & they are still waiting on results to come back from the crime lab, they said it could be as late as September before they get the results back.
Does HCSO use a local lab possibly?


Just my random thoughts & opinions...
 
I was wondering that too, there is another case here on WS, Kaytlynn Carghill, she was found in a landfill dead around the end of June I believe & they are still waiting on results to come back from the crime lab, they said it could be as late as September before they get the results back.
Does HCSO use a local lab possibly?


Just my random thoughts & opinions...

They may have. Just customary to send it to TDPS.


*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*
 
Forgive me if these questions have been asked:

Did he have health insurance & major medical coverage? ( private or medicare)

Did he have nursing home insurance?

Did he co-sign on any loans made by any family member , friends, etc?

Is his home / property collateral on any loans made by him and/or Mrs.

Is there a mortgage on the property? More than one mortgage?

Did he recently purchase a classic car or property thru foreclosure or repossession?

Did he have one of "those" friends who some have & everyone else is leary, uncomfortable around & he defends them?

Has ANYone asked him for a loan, help, etc.

Has he been screened for Alzheimer Disease?

Besides home, garage & Wal-Mart, what's his hang out place, coffee shop, restaurant, park, library?

Does he do volunteer work?

Were there any mechanical issues with the vehicle he was driving? Was there more than one vehicle at the home or garage on that day between 8 - 7pm that he could choose to drive if his reg vehicle was having issues?

Did he have a regular buddy or someone who helped out in garage or came to hang out on a regular basis?

Was he on jury duty in last few years or was he involved in jury of an older high- profile case?

Has he been a reference in regards to someone's resume, court proceedings, custody battle, probation officer, etc?

Where was his fav vacation destination? Where was his dream vacation?

Just mulling some fresh theories over in my mind.

It's not my intention to offend , presume, judge, accuse....

I pray for answers soon.

Did he serve in any capacity in local city council /government?

Does he own a business?

Is he on any school boards? Has he recently attended any classes school? Member of church? New member, former member?

Is he vocal or outspoken regarding local , state, federal politics or back any politicians?

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I explained it as it was explained to me and from a couple of things I looked up. I'm definitely not an attorney.

I am sure I'll catch hell for explaining this in more detail, because it's really nobody's business but ours, but... From what I have been told, this is what was required by the pension board to make specific decisions in a timely manner so Papaw's pension and DROP fund would continue on a monthly basis. DFD pension board sent out a letter to members just prior to Papaw's disappearance requesting a confirmation that the payments should maintain as they had been - OR if they didn't respond, then it would go to semi-annual payments. The DROP fund payments stopped the same month Papaw went missing, so action had to be taken RIGHT AWAY so BC could continue to receive the funds that Papaw contributed to the DROP monthly instead of going to semi-annual.

Bringing this forward because this is my understanding of the need for the declaration of death. His pension payments would change unless he opted for them not to change. Since he is missing, he could not make this decision and his family could not either without the declaration. Why do people still find this suspicious?

Because there are other legal avenues that could have been taken without having him declared dead.


*All statements are of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

Please explain what those are, because I'm not aware of them.

A power of attorney for one.


*All statements are of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

MC would have to sign the power of attorney. It doesn't work for someone that cannot sign, either because they are missing or have diminished mental capacity.

Correct. But as a first responder, it just would have seemed logical that they would have had one. Having him declared dead is more than extreme. For every rule, there's an exception or a loophole.


*All statements are of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

Many people do not have a power of attorney established if they are otherwise healthy. That is irrelevant, though. What do you do when there is no power of attorney established and he is missing? The Letter Testamentary is completely reasonable.

That's a matter of opinion. We each have one. [emoji846]


*All statements are of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

You did say there were alternatives but haven't been able to produce one. What should someone do if there is no power of attorney established and financial decisions need to be made, and signatures required, for the missing?

I'm not an attorney, so I can't fully answer this question, although I'm very familiar with the legal system. I gave you one. If you read back through all the threads, others have commented on such.

Several things about the Will and Death Certificate situation smell fishy. Someone down the line isn't being truthful with the public, or they were given horrible legal advice. Others have made posts here on why the information that is being given to the public is just not how that process works.

You apparently think it was perfectly fine to do this. Many others have a different opinion. That's all fine.

If you would like to know precise information on the alternatives to what was done, Google is an excellent resource as is a local law library, and any Texas District Clerk's office. That's where some of the rest of us have gotten questions answered.

This is all I know to tell you.


*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

None of the family has been named POIs and are likely undergoing a lot of stress. If we are going to make accusations towards the family (someone isn't being truthful), I think we should be able to justify those accusations with alternatives that could have been chosen. A power of attorney doesn't work for somebody already missing. Nobody earlier in the thread has offered an alternative to dealing with the situation once it was explained by the VI.

It is wrong to accuse the family of lying and receiving bad legal advice without articulating the alternative.

I've addressed this. Have a great day! [emoji846]

[emoji1366] Bye.


*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

This was our previous conversation. Where did you explain an alternative?
 
I explained it as it was explained to me and from a couple of things I looked up. I'm definitely not an attorney.

I am sure I'll catch hell for explaining this in more detail, because it's really nobody's business but ours, but... From what I have been told, this is what was required by the pension board to make specific decisions in a timely manner so Papaw's pension and DROP fund would continue on a monthly basis. DFD pension board sent out a letter to members just prior to Papaw's disappearance requesting a confirmation that the payments should maintain as they had been - OR if they didn't respond, then it would go to semi-annual payments. The DROP fund payments stopped the same month Papaw went missing, so action had to be taken RIGHT AWAY so BC could continue to receive the funds that Papaw contributed to the DROP monthly instead of going to semi-annual.

If you want to argue that the actions of the family are suspect, please explain how they could have maintained the monthly payments using another method?

The VI has been honest and forthcoming, why is she lying about this? (I don't believe she is)
 
Regarding the pension only, in a divorce each person would have received 50% of the fund. BC would not be able to remain as a beneficiary on MC's share of the pension. (This presumes she was originally designated beneficiary by MC.)

By declaring MC dead she would receive the full pension if she had been designated beneficiary.

MOO
 
WHAT ARE THEY??? You've said that before and you're only cite was she could have gotten a power of attorney - which she couldn't. So, WHAT COULD SHE HAVE DONE TO KEEP THE PENSION PAYMENTS MONTHLY?

She wouldn't have had to do anything. According to the "family," HCSO's stance is this is a "missing person" case, not a "death investigation," "homicide investigation," or a "suicide."

If Mrs. Chambers knows otherwise, she hasn't said.

Our VI also said a DROP distribution election form -the document at the link, I believe- had not been mailed in by the deadline, and that Mrs. Chambers feared payments would go from month-to-month to every six months, but as posted earlier, we found out that for the payments to go semi-annual, The Chambers would have had to return the form by Feb. 28th - 10 days before Mr. Chambers went missing.

So their monthly regular pension payments would have continued just as in the past if she hadn't done anything.

Though unlikely, IMO, if Mr. and Mrs. Chambers were having paper checks mailed, rather than having pension payments direct-deposited, then Mrs. Chambers could have filed "a sworn petition stating the facts that make it desirable for the petitioning spouse to manage, control, and dispose of community property described or defined in the petition ..." under the Texas Family Code. This action might have enabled her to complete any DROP-related paperwork needed to keep those payments going as well. I'm just not sure about their DROP situation since what our VI apparently has been told does not jibe with published information.

https://www.dpfp.org/images/PDFs/Forms/Rollover-with-waiver-and-notice.pdf
 
Do you have a link you can provide?
I have never heard of a QDRO.


Just my random thoughts & opinions...

Wikipedia explains it pretty well. Technically, because it is a state sponsored pension plan, they are covered by something similar to a QDRO. Former job of mine... dealing with QDROs.
 
Regarding the pension only, in a divorce each person would have received 50% of the fund. BC would not be able to remain as a beneficiary on MC's share of the pension. (This presumes she was originally designated beneficiary by MC.)

By declaring MC dead she would receive the full pension if she had been designated beneficiary.

MOO

Correct - depending on the election he chose at retirement. He could have chosen benefits to continue for his lifetime or his and his spouse's lifetime. Most people do choose the later and she would receive benefits until her death.
 
Do you have a link you can provide?
I have never heard of a QDRO.


Just my random thoughts & opinions...

The only thing I'm finding for Texas is for teachers, and State employees. Maybe someone can come up with something different.


*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*
 
The only thing I'm finding for Texas is for teachers, and State employees. Maybe someone can come up with something different.


*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

Me too & firefighters are employed by the city in which they work not the state, or is city/town, county, and state all considered government positions?
Idk but a QDRO seems more like it could more for say a common-law marriage or for what is stands for domestic relationships, meaning same-sex? Idk totally confused about what it is & what it could be used for/as in Texas.


Just my random thoughts & opinions...
 
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