GUILTY TX - Patricia Allen arrested after 3 children drown, Irving, July 2015

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Ok.....so their mom is sitting RIGHT THERE, and one sibling is drowning, so instead of calling to their mom for help, the 2nd sibling just goes into the water to help the first and starts drowning, too. So then the third sibling sees two drowning siblings and still doesn't call out or notify mom in any way, and instead goes into the water to rescue the two already drowning siblings??

With their mom a less than 50ft away??

Sorry....I'm still not buying this Arizona ocean-front property.

I have 5 children, as well. My oldest is 15, then 13, then 12. My children are actually excellent swimmers and the oldest two have taken advanced swimming courses including rescue techniques. They absolutely would still be calling out to me if I was that close and their sibling needed help. If I was away, they would try to help, but they still call Mama in emergencies. I would be more likely to believe this story if the pool was full of other splashing kids. However, it's obvious when 3 children are playing and making noise and then there is quiet. Quietness gets every parents' attention.
 
T4Tide said:
Ok.....so their mom is sitting RIGHT THERE, and one sibling is drowning, so instead of calling to their mom for help, the 2nd sibling just goes into the water to help the first and starts drowning, too. So then the third sibling sees two drowning siblings and still doesn't call out or notify mom in any way, and instead goes into the water to rescue the two already drowning siblings??.
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I assumed that the mom wasn't right there. She wandered off to speak on the phone or whatever. The child may not have been "drowning" at first, just treading water in the deep end so the two older kids go to the deep end at the same time to get the little one thinking it is no big deal for them. Then none of them have the skill to swim back. I am making a lot of assumptions obviously. If the pool is like many public pools with an end that little ones can wade in that gradually gets deeper and deeper I can see this happening very easily. I have no real basis for any of this but just making deductions here based on what I have seen at my pool club. I have seen a lot of kids who propel themselves enough to get to the deep end of the pool but cannot get back out because they have gotten tired. The parents are usually the ones to get them before the situation gets serious; I've only personally witnessed a life guard helping a kid out once.

Ugh, I jus thought of another horrible explanation. The mom sends the older kids into the pool to help the younger one. I've seen that happen often at the pool club too, but always with kids that are pretty good swimmers.
 
ellemo said:
I assumed that the mom wasn't right there. She wandered off to speak on the phone or whatever. The child may not have been "drowning" at first, just treading water in the deep end so the two older kids go to the deep end at the same time to get the little one thinking it is no big deal for them. Then none of them have the skill to swim back. I am making a lot of assumptions obviously. If the pool is like many public pools with an end that little ones can wade in that gradually gets deeper and deeper I can see this happening very easily. I have no real basis for any of this but just making deductions here based on what I have seen at my pool club. I have seen a lot of kids who propel themselves enough to get to the deep end of the pool but cannot get back out because they have gotten tired. The parents are usually the ones to get them before the situation gets serious; I've only personally witnessed a life guard helping a kid out once.

Ugh, I jus thought of another horrible explanation. The mom sends the older kids into the pool to help the younger one. I've seen that happen often at the pool club too, but always with kids that are pretty good swimmers.
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The witnesses said that the mom was sitting at the opposite end of the pool. Unless it's the size of....I don't know.....a football field, I call that "right there."
 
This is the pool.

8157094_G.jpg


http://www.fox4news.com/story/29401565/three-children-pulled-from-irving-pool-after-nearly-drowning
 
When my kids were that age, and in the pool, they were incredibly NOISY. Lots of splashing, shouting, laughing, arguing, MARCO POLO, jumping into the pool, etc etc.

If they had been silent, it would have immediately gotten my attention.
 
From MSM links in early posts, I got impression Ms Allen was sitting inside fenced area; I was interp'ing differently from some posters who thought she had wandered off (outside fenced area? outside line of view? back to apt?)

But this June 24-25 article states - not just implies - she was in the pool w her two younger children.

"Police say while a mother played with her 3 and 4-year-olds in a pool ... she had her back turned to the other three kids who were in the water with her.... "At the point that she didn't hear any more movement,” said Officer .... “She turned around and saw that they were no longer on the surface, and at that point, began calling for help. She put the 3-year-old up on the side began calling for help.” bbm
http://www.fox4news.com/story/29401565/three-children-pulled-from-irving-pool-after-nearly-drowning
If she & 3 & 4 y/o were not in pool, does not make sense to say put 3 y/o 'on the side;' 3 y/o w/h/bn 'on the side' already.
Possible that w a few misstated or misinterp'ed words, article is inaccurate, IDK. Or maybe other articles are inaccurate, IDK.

3 possibilities w different implications. But imo ignoring one of the most basic of water safety rules: supervision of non/inexperienced swimmers. Being 'right there' (whether in pool or inside fence) is not supervising, if a parent is not able to keep track of all. And if wandering off -outside fenced area?- then surely that is not supervising.

JM2cts, could be all wrong.
 
Hmmmmmmm so she was in the water and lost focus on the children who could not swim. When she turned around they are were all under the water dead. She has a lot of explaining to do. Just seems very odd.

Yes drownings can be silent but if she was right their, phone or not. You would be looking. Multitasking etc. Seems odd
 
Ok guys this is about a block from my house, I have been to that complex for b day parties w my 9 year old , she attended School with all three kids , and one of the boys is in her class, I had a incident with the mom one morning at school in the parking lot ....the mom was letting her kids off , I was in front of her and she just kept pulling up until she tapped my bumper and just continued pushing me like I was not even there, SO I SNAPPED (oops) keep in mind that I am a bit older and going thru the "change" :( , anyhow I jumped out of my car walked back and made a motion to let her window down, she didn't and I snapped even more, she sat there with a blank look on her face like she had no clue what was going on, I beat on her window and she didn't flinch...somehow I gained control and got in my car and left (this was all witnessed by the teacher who does morning traffic) I have to say something was very wrong with that woman ...... It was one of the odder encounters I have ever had with someone. I'm sure when School starts the kids will know , I haven't told my daughter as of yet that her friends have drowned, I will before school, off to read the thread from the beginning I knew there would be an arrest .....something is off. That pool is not that large there is no way she could not have noticed NO WAY!!!!!!
 
bluesneakers said:
While I agree with you knowing how to swim is a skill everyone should have, the truth is not everyone has the opportunity to learn it.

This is setting off all my alarm bells though, because I am so strict about water safety and children playing in or near pool, to me if she couldn't swim she shouldn't have been the only one supervising. Imo there is no "Could swim well enough to be in the water." You can either swim or you can't.

I wish we could get a more accurate description of what happened.
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Also the school sent out a flyer for free swimming lessons, the rec is right around the corner , walking distance !!!!
 
After reading that June article (which I had never seen before) I am not sure. It contradicts the other article where witnesses said she was just staring at the pool and doing nothing. According to the June article she actively called for help. It also states that she cannot swim(??!!!) If the June article is correct, it sounds like a simple case of immense stupidity. People really do not understand the dangers of drown
 
ellemo said:
After reading that June article (which I had never seen before), it contradicts the other article where witnesses said she was just staring at the pool and doing nothing. According to the June article she actively called for help. It also states she can't swim. If the June article is correct, it sounds like a simple case of immense stupidity. People really do not understand the dangers of drowning.
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I have to agree with the immense stupidity just from the incident I had with her, she just looked off blankly
 
ellemo said:
After reading that June article (which I had never seen before) I am not sure. It contradicts the other article where witnesses said she was just staring at the pool and doing nothing. According to the June article she actively called for help. It also states that she cannot swim(??!!!) If the June article is correct, it sounds like a simple case of immense stupidity. People really do not understand the dangers of drown
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That June Fox4News article was published right after the drownings occurred.

Police have said her story has been changing.
http://www.people.com/article/patricia-allen-arrested-children-drowned-distracted-cell-phone

I would guess that her being in the water with the children was the first version of her story. And that it was not true.
 
Another take, below. If witnesses arrived at pool at different times, could explain different observations of Ms A's actions, even if just moments apart. All three could be truthful & accurate. Or not, IDK.

"According to court documents, a witness said Allen was distracted by a cell phone and not watching her three children in the pool.Two other witnesses said when they arrived at the pool, the three children were missing and Allen was doing nothing.
"They walked up to the pool and saw the mother sitting on the edge of the pool looking outward toward the deeper end area of the pool, and also observed the water to be still and calm, no flapping or splashing or bubbles in the water," Irving police Officer James McLellan said. "At some point the mother stepped out." bbm
http://m.wdam.com/wdam/db_/contentdetail.htm?full=true&contentguid=od:qtK4kuc3&pn=&ps=#display

Where was Ms Allen & what was she doing?
- sitting in fenced area.
- wandering off.
- in pool w 3 & 4 y/o.
- sitting on edge of pool, per ^ 'two other witnesses' (feet dangling in water?). Or in chair, same as first above but w added distraction of cellphone, per witness stmt in ct doc's.?
Could be one, none, some or all of the above.

JM2cts, could be all wrong.
 
I wonder if that officer meant "stepped out" as a metaphor. Like "checked out." Mom was daydreaming? In her own world? Consumed by the phone? Like "stepped out" of reality? Not like literally stepped out of the fence on her own two feet. A possibility.
 
ellemo said:
It's possible that the older ones may have drowned trying to save the youngerst. It may be rare but multiple drownings happen more than you think:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Ramada_Hotel_drownings On April 7, 1993 three teenage boys died by drowning in a swimming pool at a Ramada Rolling Green Hotel in Andover, Massachusetts.

Boy Dies Trying to Save Drowning Sister in Texas Pool Accident http://www.swimmingpoolsafetynews.c...-save-drowning-sister-in-texas-pool-accident/



http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ndma-couldn-swim-dived-save-article-1.1050263
3-year-old girl drowns alongside grandma who couldn't swim but dived in to save her

I also found this tidbit on CDC website
"the fatal unintentional drowning rate for African Americans was significantly higher than that of whites across all ages.2 The disparity is widest among children 5-14 years old. The fatal drowning rate of African American children ages 5 to 14 is almost three times that of white children in the same age range.2 The disparity is most pronounced in swimming pools; African American children 5-19 drown in swimming pools at rates 5.5 times higher than those of whites. " http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html
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If that was the case here, I would have expected some screaming and yelling to alert mom as the rescue attempt began. IMHO
 
T4Tide said:
I wonder if that officer meant "stepped out" as a metaphor. Like "checked out." Mom was daydreaming? In her own world? Consumed by the phone? Like "stepped out" of reality? Not like literally stepped out of the fence on her own two feet. A possibility.
Click to expand...

It would make sense. I mean it works with how the officer phrased it and it matches up to what happened.
 
T4Tide said:
I wonder if that officer meant "stepped out" as a metaphor. Like "checked out." Mom was daydreaming? In her own world? Consumed by the phone? Like "stepped out" of reality? Not like literally stepped out of the fence on her own two feet. A possibility.
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THAT IS EXACTLY HOW SHE ACTED WITH ME " Out of it " not like drugs either , just not all there.
 
I would expect mom to ask for help not just sit there
 
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