GUILTY TX - Riley 'Baby Grace' Sawyers, 2, brutally murdered, Spring, 24 July 2007

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Indigo said:
Hi Nocgirl,

I can't imagine what it must be like to be a parent dealing with custody issues like you describe. Much of what goes on in the family courts is truly unfair and changes are surely needed.

Unfortunately, a parent who kidnaps his/her own child(unless proven abuse has occurred) IMO has chosen this path out of utter selfishness. He/She has shown that selfishconcerns matter more to him or her than the well-being of the child, since never being allowed to see Mommy or Daddy again has to be an utter devastation to a child.

IMO,(in most cases) these abductive parents have proven by their actions that the judge made the correct call in the first place. They obviously don't have what it takes to forgo their own wants and desires for the sake of their children.

IMO, a parent who would do this is most likely a narcissist(sp?) and likely also to be dangerous. After reading several of Jeffery Shipman's old posts on various forums, I found it very hard to see where he had Deonna's best interests at heart.
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What would make you think he is a narcissist person?
 
Hi Teresa, I can't speak for Indigo, but I guess I also think of individuals who make statements like "If I can't have her no one can" to be in the narcissist category. When a parent kidnaps a child, it is usually either for the purpose of protecting that child from the other parent, or for the purpose of hurting the other parent by denying the other parent access to the child. The first purpose seems to have the child's best interest at heart, while the second purpose seems to be self-centered. I looked up the definition for narcissism and what I have read about Jeffery Shipman seems to fit:

"Excessive love or admiration of oneself. A psychological condition characterized by self-preoccupation, lack of empathy, and unconscious deficits in self-esteem."
 
Reannan said:
Hi Teresa, I can't speak for Indigo, but I guess I also think of individuals who make statements like "If I can't have her no one can" to be in the narcissist category. When a parent kidnaps a child, it is usually either for the purpose of protecting that child from the other parent, or for the purpose of hurting the other parent by denying the other parent access to the child. The first purpose seems to have the child's best interest at heart, while the second purpose seems to be self-centered. I looked up the definition for narcissism and what I have read about Jeffery Shipman seems to fit:

"Excessive love or admiration of oneself. A psychological condition characterized by self-preoccupation, lack of empathy, and unconscious deficits in self-esteem."
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Thanks Reannan,

I couldn't have said it better. The lack of empathy Mr. Shipman showed for his daughter and other members of his family (grandparents etc.) really stands out here. A good number of his posts complained about child support issues...not so much how much he was ordered to pay, but how. He was very averse to paying through the court system.(the control factor) I found nothing in any of his posts about Deonna's welfare or what was best for her.

Hopefully, Baby Grace will not turn out to be Deonna Shipman and Deonna is still being cared for by her father. DNA results should be in by next week according to news reports.
 
Deonna's case will be profiled tonight on AMW along with the Baby Grace case from TX.
 
One of the biggest arguments against Baby Grace being Deonna, is the lack of the body of Jeffery Shipman. If Deonna's father killed her, I would have expected him to also have killed himself. I haven't seen any news reports about a John Doe suicide. :confused:
 
The similarities between Deonna and Baby Grace are striking. I emailed America's Most Wanted with the idea when it was first discovered here on WS"s. (Sorry, I can't remember right now, who it was that first made the connection - Kudo's to whoever it was).
 
Soonerbabie said:
The teeth look very similar on deonna and Baby Grace!
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That was the first thing I noticed as well.

My heart goes out to Deonna's mother who is waiting for the worst news a mother can get. I'm sure she had kept the hope alive that he had taken her and was taking care of her.

I feel in my gut, that this is a match.
 
Reannan said:
One of the biggest arguments against Baby Grace being Deonna, is the lack of the body of Jeffery Shipman. If Deonna's father killed her, I would have expected him to also have killed himself. I haven't seen any news reports about a John Doe suicide. :confused:
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She she was found in water or near water, maybe he drowned. His body would act differently in water currents (sinking, floating, riding currents) than her body in a box? Just an idea - i have no knowledge of all this. I just feel his body may still be in the water somewhere?? Or, maybe he killed her accidentally and he is alive???
 
If it was Jeffrey Shipman that killed Deonna and put in barrel to be hidden, why would he kill himself? Deonna wouldn't need to be hidden in barrel if he killed himself too. It wouldn't matter that she was concealed if he was dead. This IMO.So if Baby Grace is Deonna I believe dad is on the lam hiding.
 
I really hope they identify this precious little girl. Shame on any Dad who would do this to his daughter just to get back at mom.
 
This is the last article I remember seeing about Baby Grace. :( I hope something breaks soon.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/5279971.html

On Tuesday morning, at least two calls came in that could add something to the investigation.

One was from a Mississippi woman who called to say that a female relative who has a child with a description similar to Baby Grace had moved to the Houston area recently. The woman said she had not been able to reach that relative or her mother in recent days to check on the child.

Another woman called in tears, saying she owns a weekend home on Tiki Island in Galveston Bay and saw a box floating by about three weeks ago. The woman told Henson she did not connect the sighting to the Baby Grace case until she learned online Tuesday that the box in which Baby Grace was found was blue.

Investigators are still uncertain if the box in which Baby Grace's body was stowed floated to the spot where a fisherman came across it or if it was placed at the spot.

On another call that came in, a woman said she had a tip in the case but refused to give it to dispatchers, who transferred the call to an investigator.
 
I am so relieved to know that tips are still coming in! I really didn't think this case was going to take this long to solve!
 
Here is something I found interesting:
Hannah Nicole Pobursky DOB 9/9/05- missing from CA since 2/1/06. She would now be the correct approximate age according to the forensic dentist's report. She was reportedly taken by her non-custodial mother. Non-custodial parents typically do not physically harm their own children, but if Hannah was taken from her mother, or if they were victims of a crime, she may not have reported it since there is a warrant out for her own arrest. When she went missing, Hannah's baby picture did not show any hair, but her mother, Jamie Lynn, has long, blond hair....
http://www.ncmec.org/missingkids/se...NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US
 
Why has not Maddie been ruled out by DNA yet? I don't understand. I know the police believe this baby is not Maddie, but they won't come out with a DEFINITE determination.

Do you think that is because the story may receive additional press coverage if it is lined to Maddie's name?

Have the police looked to see if Mr. McCann went to Target or WalMart when he came to visit the US back in July or August? Maybe his real purpose for coming to the US was to go shopping.....

Salem
 
DNA testing is expensive and time consuming. And since Maddie has been ruled out there is no reason to test.

Salem said:
Why has not Maddie been ruled out by DNA yet? I don't understand. I know the police believe this baby is not Maddie, but they won't come out with a DEFINITE determination.

Do you think that is because the story may receive additional press coverage if it is lined to Maddie's name?

Have the police looked to see if Mr. McCann went to Target or WalMart when he came to visit the US back in July or August? Maybe his real purpose for coming to the US was to go shopping.....

Salem
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The height and weight are off. Also, Maddie has straight hair and Baby Grace has wavy/curly hair.

I didn't think of Hannah Pobursky. She is possible. I hope it's not her or Deonna or Karen (I would be very surprised if it was Celestina because of the dates) because I don't need to see another family abduction end in murder. :(
 
Hello everyone first time poster here.

Some folk have been talking about how someone has tried to dispose of this child. I think that the telling thing is that someone has NOT wanted to dispose of her. Anyone wanting to properly dispose of the body could have used one of any number of (unfortunatley) commonly used methods of disposal, burial in the woods, body weighted and propped in a lake/river/the sea etc. etc.

This person has wanted to "protect" Baby Grace, she has been put in a sturdy storage container which has protected her and maybe even preserved her (I don't know if these containers are air-tight).

I just hope that those involved are found soon.
 
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