TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers,45, murdered in church/person in SWAT gear,18 Apr 2016 #34

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If the video is not in chronological order then I would not be able to have any theory of their movements or their actions or behaviors. If it were known to not be in order I wouldn't even be here typing or following the case - it would be a waste of my time. So I have no theory that can cover all of the elements we have seen in all the possible combinations of the order of events. Far too many possibilities to make it useful. If, for example, the video is out of order and the last true time SP was seen was at close to 4am and all other pieces of video were from prior to that time there are far too many possibilities of movements and placements that are unseen to build any theory of the crime. You might as well throw darts with a blindfold on.

Exactly, that's what I am talking about. We do not know as a fact the time value of any of the edited together segments that form the 227 min video released. So it is hard to say much other than what we actually see in ea clip. You have to go back to WHY this video was released in the first place. Not to give us something to figure out possibilities or theories but to help with possible identification of the Suspect. For sure the time when was opening the door at 358 a.m. and POSSIBLY the walking down the South Dutch Door hallway are from same time/camera area. But the other, we have no idea to come up with a theory based on that can cause a tunnel vision JMHO.

We have no idea what (other than the time stamped portion) what the suspect was doing ... Also we do not know what time the CG campers came in to find her so it could very well be up until 5 am that Suspect was still in the building. Suspect is known to be in the building from 350 until 418 alone via SW. Does not mean Suspect was on video all that time. We do not know how long MB was on video also the video most likely is other things (not released portion I am speaking of) I would feel confident in thinking that some of it is CG Campers, LEO, FD and so forth coming in and events of that morning. For all we know when Suspect came down the hallway towards the SW Covered Awning entrance and saw the door propped open, Suspect could have thought MB had already came into the building and was looking for her. Breaking windows on interior doors that may be locked to reach in and open. I am in the group that thinks this is a Targeted killing for what unknown reason and by whom I have no idea. No arrest has been made and a world of individuals it could be. We do not even know if male or female. But currently I am not in the group that thinks the Suspect went around breaking stuff to set up looking like a burglary gone bad. Just not enough factual info released at present time. Please don't get me wrong or think I am trying to be snarky. I am not. I like to sleuth as much as anyone else following cases. The church layout is important part of this case but going by what we have known from MPD all we know for sure is the Kitchen area and the SW portion of the building. That was my whole reasoning for trying to figure out the layout. When I started all we had were outside boarded up doors and window. ** which, I think that is the area where the sink is and the rollup window shown in room 8 nearest to the outside wall is opening into that room. JMHO. **
 
The interviews with Moore gave me pause for a couple of reasons:

- He questions what made MPD change SP's gender from "male" to "person" which, of course, then includes females and he makes it seem like the reason is more than just not being able to tell the gender by the videos.

- He touches on the gym, where MB once worked out regularly and which she was avoiding for a couple of weeks and when she did attend, she was not as out going.

- He says it is easy to get those Linkedin messages. So, we know that LE has this information and the ID of the sender.

- The cell tower dump would not be overly burdensome because of the remote location of the church and the hour of the day. If SP had a cell phone and it was turned on, LE has this info.

- His hinky meter went off because BB was out of town, his immediate response was that MB was not targeted (how could he know) and he didn't want to know the autopsy results. Moore said that victims families always want to know the details. He also thought it telling that BB had warned MB to be careful just a day before this happened, emphasizing that this was an empty church which wouldn't cause him concern if it were his wife. (I disagree on this but live in a dangerous city, so my views are jaded).

- He thought the MIL's open letter was odd. It could be just her anger and frustration or an effort at misdirection.

- He stated that SP had very detailed knowledge of the building, enough to not worry about the vehicle license plate being read by exterior cameras because none were working and enough to know that the cameras inside did work, hence the elaborate disguise.

- The affair and flirtatious relationship are cause for concern as there are perhaps 3 people with motive, spurned lover, spouse of spurned lover and spouse.

So, who would be familiar with the workings of the audio/visual equipment and layout of the building who is also in that small group of people who had a motive to want MB dead?
 
Auditorium door: Examine that photo more closely, arkansasmimi. You can see that the alcove for that door is triangular by looking at its ceiling.

In the Funtime Falls photo, you can see the light from the glass doors reflecting on the wall. You can even make out the shadow from the center horizontal part of the door's metal frame.
Unsure which photo your speaking of of Funtime Falls photo lol

I am unsure on the on the door there are not enough good angle photos from outside in the hallway but from inside looks like it is flush with the wall (door going out of Worship Center into the hallway) One thing for sure about this case, realize how many illusions camera angle can make. Not trying to argue just brainstorming as always. Thanks Scout
 
Quote Originally Posted by No it's not View Post
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Margie Mow (ph) joining us out of LA, Randy Kessler. He also, Randy, is telling the person, the killer, to turn

themselves in. He also has revealed that he has seen other secret police video that has not been released to the public, and based on everything he

has learned from the investigation, he believes the killer is a woman.

RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, maybe he has a specific woman in mind that that person walks, the person that he`s seeing, or maybe

he just sees this person walking. If he`s seen other videos, there are other videos that might reveal more of a woman tendency, more feminine

qualities than the ones we`ve seen.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1605/26/ng.01.html
Yesterday, 10:11 PM#481 Jethro4WS
Isn't that the Nancy Grace special episode from the Friday before memorial day that contained all kinds of pieces from various dates? I have been trying to find the source of BB actually saying that. I am sure he did. I just want to know when because I am thinking this was before the longer video was released.


Quote Originally Posted by Scout View Post
And didn't BB state that he'd seen more than what's been released and that he saw the suspect holstering the hammer in a manner that led him to think suspect might be male?
Do we know when he actually said this? I have been trying to track down the original source of this.

The 227 min video was released April 22 by MPD. Here is the May 24 interview that BB did with Richard Ray Fox 4. At the 4:20 of video Richard Ray says BB thinks a female but that he had seen video where suspect holsters claw hammer or whatever it was effortlessly like a man from habit in tool belt . Richard Ray states he has not seen that video http://www.fox4news.com/news/144581978-story
 
Here is the May 24 interview that BB did with Richard Ray Fox 4. At the 4:20 of video Richard Ray says BB thinks a female but that he had seen video where suspect holsters claw hammer or whatever it was effortlessly like a man from habit in tool belt . Richard Ray states he has not seen that video http://www.fox4news.com/news/144581978-story

i've always thought the holstering occured near the bulletin board. (Right after SP failed to open the door with a pry bar.)

JMO
 
Jethro4WS,
On your diagram you have this room, as 2 rooms split between the windows. This photo was taken in 2014. There would have had to be remodeling done for it to fit your diagram. I do not have anything to prove or disprove that remodeling did or did not happen. I do know from looking at the curtains placement and the view from outside that this is the only room in the building with windows like this placement. If your diagram is correct do you know when the remodeling happened or how you came up with it being 2 rooms? Thanks again *this will be near the Dutch Door room that Suspect opened on the South hallway you have as S1 S2

room Dutch door area.JPG https://www.facebook.com/1793451023...79345102342/10152111682167343/?type=3&theater

window near dutch door room.JPG
 
That isn't the same room.

There are two sets of double windows with a visible post in the room with the kids with the tables. There are only double windows on the East side of the building. The windows are 16 feet apart and it is 6 feet from the left most windows to the post and 9 feet from that post to the windows to the right. The post itself is a foot wide.

In the Breakaway room you can see the edge of a post on the left side of the photo and only the right pane of a set of double windows. That set of double windows has to be closer to the post than 9 feet at that angle to only be able to see just the right pane of the double windows. That post is further than 6 feet from the photographer so if it were the same room you should be able to see the edge or even the right pane of the double windows that would be there if it were the same room as the kids with the tables. You don't see that. That structural post in that room aligns with one at the rear of the sanctuary 21 feet north of the Se corner of the sanctuary. There is a structural column in the left corner of the room in the photo of the breakaway room - you can see it above the wall line (enlarge and lighten) - that aligns with the structural column at exact SE corner of the sanctuary. None of this is possible in the room with the kids at the tables.

Room 10 is definitely the Breakaway Room that would also be labelled E3 on my map. That has two doors and is located at the southern end of the east side. It can't be anywhere else. There are photos of both doors to this room with the one showing the southernmost door also showing the right edge of the northern most door to the room. They are closer than I have on my map and I will be updating that to reflect the actual position of the second door.

The room to the north of Room 10 is the room with the kids at the tables. It is labelled E2 on my map. The door to that room is just out of sight in the picture of the room with the kids that is aimed away from the windows. It would be just behind where the pastor is standing talking to the women. For whatever reason, in that church they tend to have doors mounted to the left of structural columns (if you were looking from inside the room). You see this throughout the building. So, where you see the structural column in the photo of that same room that is toward the windows there is a structural column on the opposite side of the room (walled on both sides, so hidden) and the door would be mounted to the left side of that post.

Room 12 is E1 on my map. Room 8 (N1 on my map) is just to its north 8 feet away. I certainly don't have it on the other side of the building.

RBBM, sorry I was saying I am disagreeing with your placement of the rooms. I will agree to disagree, was just brainstorming and asking questions. You are new since I was here last :blushing:
Respectfully, are you saying that this is a window? Looks like a door to me. Sorry if I am misunderstanding. breakaway room poss door.JPG https://www.facebook.com/breakaways...5364240540562/477231679020482/?type=3&theater

And it is my belief until proven otherwise that this room butts up to the end of the Auditorium/Worship Center, with East Hallway out side and the doors of this room facing the rooms that have the East windows.
 
Auditorium door: Examine that photo more closely, arkansasmimi. You can see that the alcove for that door is triangular by looking at its ceiling.

In the Funtime Falls photo, you can see the light from the glass doors reflecting on the wall. You can even make out the shadow from the center horizontal part of the door's metal frame.
Are you speaking of the Funtime Falls poster? I have zoomed it up and even with bifocals I do not see glass doors reflecting on the wall. I see the waterfall on the poster. with the mountain or whatever earth along the side https://www.facebook.com/1793451023...79345102342/10150972027442343/?type=3&theater

This poster comes with the packet (we do the same themes at our church, we did the submerged instead of the Cave Quest this year) funtime falls info.JPG http://g.christianbook.com/dg/product/cbd/w163/733875.jpg and the one for Project Point project point leader info.JPG http://g.christianbook.com/dg/product/cbd/w163/734070.jpg
 
Jethro4WS on your layout/map http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-18-Apr-2016-33/page9&p=12699959#post12699959 I commend you for the had word you have done. I too started making a layout long ways back. I along with many here worked together. I never stated my or out thoughts were to scale but we did provide photo and link back ups to out thoughts. I saw where you asked where the metal door that had the busted handle on the North side was called Kitchen door. While there IS an MSM article stating kitchen, here at WS it may be my fault that it is referred to as the Metal Kitchen Door as that's what I called it and we all referenced it that to know where we were speaking of.

On the North hallway exit door from NE corner of the Auditorium/Worship Center, every photo I have ever seen and I too have looked at many. That door does not appear to be angled as you have in your diagram. The hallway photos show the recessed area and this photo from the Creekside CoC Breakaway Youth Ministries shows looking out the Room 8 door closest to the Kitchen straight across is the door that you show angled but appears not. Nor in the photos from inside the Auditorium/Worship Center. *not a big deal in the scope of thing but just my opinion but it does help with getting the feel where what is what.
attachment.php
https://www.facebook.com/breakawaysm/photos/a.492654417478208.1073741825.195364240540562/492654434144873/?type=3&theater JMHO

Also can you tell me where you have this room on your diagram? Thanks
attachment.php
If you look close you can see another door at the left edge of photo down a ways
The angle of the doors at the rear of the sanctuary is really like that. Scout was very helpful with that. Have you seen the "Dad Day" Father's Day video? It is at the CreeksideChurchVids channel. About 30 seconds in you will see a man come out of the door from the sanctuary into Room 8. You will know you are in room 8 when you see the camera show other views of the same room. So with the picture you have across from Room 8 and the a screen cap of where the man came through that door from the sanctuary that angle and depth was recreated - it has to be able to support both views from both angles.

The key to placing things is based on that door's position in Room 8. If you look at the right side of the door in that photo and follow it up past the top you will see a seam continue. This is a structural column. There is a one right across the room in line with it that you can see in other photos. With the door in Room 8 placed what you can see - that is how much of that angled alcove can you see - from each of those angles the photo and the video provide will determine just how far the alcove ends west of that door (to the right of that door if looking at it from inside room 8) which turns out to be 4 feet.

The other thing is that on the opposite side of the sanctuary there is another alcove that is the mirror image of the one we are talking about. They have to be aligned. The constraint on the alcove on the South side of the sanctuary is where you can see just a bit of where that alcove is in an enlarged screen cap from the MPD videos. That aligns across from the office area. So all of this has to line up across the church. If they were to move in any direction every room in the office area would have to move. But those office rooms are anchored by the known position of windows and structural columns and those can't move. All of that anchoring to the columns plus the known window locations allows rooms on the North, and South and the sanctuary to be pinned in place.

This same structural column pinning allows for determining locations of some other rooms on the west and east sides and helps to confirm window positions especially on the east side where accuracy is more difficult. So when trying to place a room from a photo, it can't be placed where there would be a structural column right in the middle of a window pane for example because you don't see a column in the middle of the window in the photo. Or if a structural column should be visible in a photo - because it is known to exist from elsewhere and has to be in alignment - that room also can't be in that location if you don't see a column where you should.

The structural column alignment on the east side will be different from the alignment on the west side. This is because the actual structure is different on each of those sides - most glaringly is the extra support needed for the main entry on the west side and space needed for the twin sets of double doors at the north and south sides of the west end of the sanctuary. That said, when you find a structural column in a room on one end of the east side, for example south, there should be a structural column in the mirror position on the opposite side (in this example north) because the design of the building would require the columns supporting the same approximate weight. I am still working on the east side to get better placement. Those are the constraints that will set location. Dimensions on the east side with respect to the north/south dimension of the rooms are much more tricky and a best guess within a foot or 3 for now.

My goal with this little project is not only to have a map that people can use to orient themselves to where things are and understand what they see in the MPD videos (or other videos and photos) but to also get as accurate a location for doors and other visible things. That would allow other measurements to become possible and camera angles and camera placement to be better determined and so on. How far a camera sees or where SP could have gone if out of camera range or being able to better determine the height of SP and so on. With better information and tighter constraints people can evaluate what little video evidence we have without everyone having to resort to their own best guess.
 
just a random thought - IMO the Nissan Altima is definitely not involved in MB murder because...in the AT&T warrant they only requested data from 3am to 5am on 4/18/16. If they felt the Altima was involved don't you think they would have requested data from the time period that the Altima was in the gun store lot?
 
IMO, Funtime Falls was outside on the lawn. I believe the photo with the palm tree and a sign pointing toward Funtime Falls is the SE corner of the corridors and the sign is pointing toward the SE exit.
It is at the Southeast corner as far as I can tell. Below is my working theory.

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It is at the Southeast corner as far as I can tell. Below is my working theory.

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Those are 2 diff trees. The photo you have tagged that you think the leaves are hiding 10 bucket and leaves are different colors than the one next to the Project Point with 10 clearly in sight.

ETA I dont believe that they would put room 10 on the SE corner when room 8 is at the end of NE corner. Makes no sense JMHO
 
Isn't that the Nancy Grace special episode from the Friday before memorial day that contained all kinds of pieces from various dates? I have been trying to find the source of BB actually saying that. I am sure he did. I just want to know when because I am thinking this was before the longer video was released.
Still looking for a clip with BB himself stating it, but here is this report. It's right at the end https://youtu.be/jyKap9VmCWE from fox4 news
 
The interviews with Moore gave me pause for a couple of reasons:

- He questions what made MPD change SP's gender from "male" to "person" which, of course, then includes females and he makes it seem like the reason is more than just not being able to tell the gender by the videos.

- He touches on the gym, where MB once worked out regularly and which she was avoiding for a couple of weeks and when she did attend, she was not as out going.

- He says it is easy to get those Linkedin messages. So, we know that LE has this information and the ID of the sender.

- The cell tower dump would not be overly burdensome because of the remote location of the church and the hour of the day. If SP had a cell phone and it was turned on, LE has this info.

- His hinky meter went off because BB was out of town, his immediate response was that MB was not targeted (how could he know) and he didn't want to know the autopsy results. Moore said that victims families always want to know the details. He also thought it telling that BB had warned MB to be careful just a day before this happened, emphasizing that this was an empty church which wouldn't cause him concern if it were his wife. (I disagree on this but live in a dangerous city, so my views are jaded).

- He thought the MIL's open letter was odd. It could be just her anger and frustration or an effort at misdirection.

- He stated that SP had very detailed knowledge of the building, enough to not worry about the vehicle license plate being read by exterior cameras because none were working and enough to know that the cameras inside did work, hence the elaborate disguise.

- The affair and flirtatious relationship are cause for concern as there are perhaps 3 people with motive, spurned lover, spouse of spurned lover and spouse.

So, who would be familiar with the workings of the audio/visual equipment and layout of the building who is also in that small group of people who had a motive to want MB dead?
Excellent summary! I would only add

- why bring a hammer to a crowbar party.
 
RBBM
Snipped for space

attachment.php


Jethroe and Mimi please look in the bottom left hand corner of this pic. This looks like a moveable wall. I wondered
this before in a previous post as this could be a way for SP to get around or s second perp without being seen.
 
RBBM
Snipped for space

attachment.php


Jethroe and Mimi please look in the bottom left hand corner of this pic. This looks like a moveable wall. I wondered this before in a previous as this could be a way for SP to get around or s second perp without being seen.

I have not a clue, but just know that the Breakaway sign is leaned up against same wall as it was in the Project Point photo and that this is Dec and they are painting the room blue. You can see the tape around the edges.

ETA: I not convinced that Suspect was evading the cameras, I haven't seen proof of that or heard the MPD state that. The Suspect was covered from head to toe, no reason to hide from the cameras. JMHO Also SW states that the Suspect was only person in the building from 350 until 418, that has to be factual.
 
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