Found Deceased TX - Thomas Brown, 18, Hemphill County, 23 Nov 2016

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Bill Carson said:
I'm a complete outsider to the situation, but I attended a small high school in West Texas many years ago.

I do think it is possible that TB quit the fb team because he was being bullied, and then when he quit he let everyone know that that bullying was getting to him, and so they continued to bully him and something got out of hand.

I know that in many of these little towns the boys may suffer from a sort of toxic masculinity, and they engage in bullying to prove their status among the other young men.

There may be some homophobia at work here. I'm not saying TB was gay, but facts don't stop bullies. If TB enjoyed drama and debate and church, then someone might have targeted him and cast TB as gay. I think the word that was used 35 years ago was "queer." That doesn't necessarily refer to sexual orientation as much as it points to a lack of manliness. Think about how Kevin Bacon's character was bullied in Footloose.
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In a town the size of Canadian, most students are encouraged and expected to be involved in multiple extracurriculars, so I don't think anyone had an issue with him being in drama. The issue would be quitting the team mid-season when you got moved to 2nd string. I know that led to tensions. I do not know if those were severe enough to lead to something like this; however, his disappearance happened the night before the football team was headed out to the big championship game downstate. The fact he was involved in a church youth group is a non-issue here in this town. Most any kids who are prominent leaders, athletes, etc. are also very involved in church. From what I've read, the rumor about him being gay was one put out there by the sheriff and has been debunked by people like his ex-girlfriend.
 
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Sunny Texas said:
I don't have any specific reason to suspect Kaleb, but he is from a politically powerful and well-connected family, so that opens the door to some negative possibilities. His mom is not a good enough alibi; many mothers would cover for their children in such a situation. If he were involved in an unfortunate mishap and panicked, he could have gone home and been in bed while his dad took care of the mess. That is not an accusation in any way whatsoever, and personally, I lean towards believing him entirely innocent. I just think he can't be ruled out until he is officially ruled out.
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This is what I have thought since the beginning. Not an accusation of just KK himself but a HS kid who's family has enough pull to make the sheriff think he needs to cover it up.
I did go to college in West Texas but I'm from a small town about the same size as Canadian in East Texas. The majority of kids in HS were involved in some type of church youth group, myself included. That more than likely wasn't a catalyst of anything. I still very strongly believe it was a fight that got out of hand and then someone panicked.
 
With the Klein Team's belief that "several" people were involved, it seems more likely that teenagers (and maybe their parents) would be more panicked and likely to drive around in TB's truck, wondering, "what are we going to do now?!!", than seasoned LE officers. They are trained to be calm, cool and collected; knowing that a quick disposal of the truck would be a necessity. Still, maybe one or two LE officers helped to cover it up later on?
 
Sunny Texas said:
New 3-part local radio interview with Penny just posted on the Moms4Tom Facebook page!
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She answers several recent questions from here, including stating that local LE are no longer part of the active investigation. When/if they are spotted near the crime scene, they are only there to perform things like blocking off the road, etc. rather than handling evidence.
 
KXDJ Interview with Tom's Mom, Part 1

KXDJ Interview with Tom's Mom, Part 2

KXDJ Interview with Tom's Mom, Part 3

Of particular interest in Part 3 is a discussion about Michael Caseltine being a person of interest in the investigation. There is a discussion concerning the suicide of MC's father Jeff Caseltine shortly after the discovery of Tom's remains. The way Penny explains it, MC was considered a person of interest because he hung out with Tom the day Tom disappeared. Additionally, JC specifically referred to the impact the investigation had on his family within his suicide note. Penny states that the Attorney General's office and the Texas Rangers were looking into the suicide because MC had been a person of interest and because of the contents of the note, although the note was not a confession implicating JC in any way.

EDIT to add that it was investigator Klein and not Penny who told KXDJ interviewer Chris Samples that JC's note was not a confession note, but that it did refer to the impact the investigation had on his family.
 
How did the Canadian football team do at the championships the day TB went missing? Had kids from the team hurt TB, it seems likely competing well would not be possible. Or others would know that something was up.

Did kids from other schools or college age kids hang out at the lake? It seems possible as kids would be home for Thanksgiving. Any chance it could have been boys from another school that may have hurt TB?
 
oh goodness. Been sick this week and haven't had a chance to listen to the interview.

To comment on something posted above - while technically true, Penny could be trying to throw off suspension of KK, I do not believe this to be the case. She has made it clear many times that the suspicion around KK hurts her and her family. She has point blank said he is not involved. So I am going to take her at her word. I just cannot believe she would go so far to defend him, if in fact, she was trying to throw off people. JMHO

Razz said:
How did the Canadian football team do at the championships the day TB went missing? Had kids from the team hurt TB, it seems likely competing well would not be possible. Or others would know that something was up.

Did kids from other schools or college age kids hang out at the lake? It seems possible as kids would be home for Thanksgiving. Any chance it could have been boys from another school that may have hurt TB?
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They played a Playoff game (not Championship) against Eastland on the afternoon of the 24th and won, 56-14. For the Championship game, they played against Gunter and lost (played on Dec. 15). The only game they lost that year was the State Final game.

I am pretty local and while there may be a few kids that go to Lake Marvin to hang out, its not super popular with anyone else than those who live in Canadian. Things out here are spread apart and to be honest, there are other places closer for kids to hang out than drive to Canadian.
 
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Sunny Texas said:
She answers several recent questions from here, including stating that local LE are no longer part of the active investigation. When/if they are spotted near the crime scene, they are only there to perform things like blocking off the road, etc. rather than handling evidence.
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I *reeaaallly* wish we could discuss LE more. In particular, who IS and WHO ISN"T involved in helping perform those routine duties involved with this case, these days.
 
jellybean96 said:
oh goodness. Been sick this week and haven't had a chance to listen to the interview.

To comment on something posted above - while technically true, Penny could be trying to throw off suspension of KK, I do not believe this to be the case. She has made it clear many times that the suspicion around KK hurts her and her family. She has point blank said he is not involved. So I am going to take her at her word. I just cannot believe she would go so far to defend him, if in fact, she was trying to throw off people. JMHO



They played a Playoff game (not Championship) against Eastland on the afternoon of the 24th and won, 56-14. For the Championship game, they played against Gunter and lost (played on Dec. 15). The only game they lost that year was the State Final game.

I am pretty local and while there may be a few kids that go to Lake Marvin to hang out, its not super popular with anyone else than those who live in Canadian. Things out here are spread apart and to be honest, there are other places closer for kids to hang out than drive to Canadian.
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Yes, you are correct. I remember now that it was the 2nd to last game and not the last. I second what jellybean says about Lake Marvin. Perhaps kids from Higgins might also go there, but that is a tiny place. Marvin is more like a large pond. I don't know if college kids who returned home for holidays would be there, but I suppose they might. There aren't that many places to hang out around Canadian--the bridge, the theatre, Lake Marvin, driving around downtown...
 
Sunny Texas said:
Interestingly coincidental happening earlier this week...someone trying to tamper with or cover up evidence?

Oil fire near Lake Marvin Road contained
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I don't think either one (though it did cross my mind when it happened). What would they be covering up? They have Tom's body. They have his clothes, backpack, computer, car, and a gun holster. I've read no structures were burned so I tend to think it is just a random fire.
 
Sunny Texas said:
Satellite photo of approximate place Tom's remains were found: https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=unfound podcast discussion group&epa=SEARCH_BOX
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Here is the Google Maps location of Lake Marvin. If you look to the road that runs North/South on the left side of the screen, the remains are just to the right of the bump on that road: Google Maps

That road looks to be a private "lease road" used by oilfield workers to service the wellsite at the end of the road. There are a lot of these types of roads in the region. The land might be owned by the same person who owns the mineral rights and thus the oil well, or the land might be owned by a rancher, with the well being serviced by whomever owns the mineral rights to the land. Either way, someone drives down that road on a regular basis in order to service and maintain that wellsite.
 
Sunny Texas said:
Here is the Google Maps location of Lake Marvin. If you look to the road that runs North/South on the left side of the screen, the remains are just to the right of the bump on that road: Google Maps

That road looks to be a private "lease road" used by oilfield workers to service the well site at the end of the road. There are a lot of these types of roads in the region. The land might be owned by the same person who owns the mineral rights and thus the oil well, or the land might be owned by a rancher, with the well being serviced by whoever owns the mineral rights to the land. Either way, someone drives down that road on a regular basis in order to service and maintain that well site.
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Looking at land records, the road and well site appear to be on land owned by "Persimmon Creek Partnership," although the remains may be on Lake Marvin land under the management of the Panhandle Water Conservation Authority. Persimmon Creek Partnership owns 34 parcels of land in and around Canadian, many of which are near Lake Marvin. <modsnip: sleuthing of individuals not named as POI/suspect> There are numerous landowners that are ranchers/farmers or have oil well sites in the region.

If you create a free account here, you can see who owns the various sections of land outside the city limits. Just zoom in on an area and hover over/click on a boundaried section of land: https://www.acrevalue.com/plat-map/TX/Hemphill/

If you go here, you can search by name/address/etc. both in and outside the city limits: Hemphill County Appraisal District - Property Data Search
 
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Something I find very painful about looking up information like this is looking at where Tom lived on the map and realizing Fronk Oil where he filled his vehicle with gas and likely came into harm's way was only about 4 blocks from the safety of his home. So sad.
 
Sunny Texas said:
Looking at land records, the road and well site appear to be on land owned by "Persimmon Creek Partnership," although the remains may be on Lake Marvin land under the management of the Panhandle Water Conservation Authority. Persimmon Creek Partnership owns 34 parcels of land in and around Canadian, many of which are near Lake Marvin. <modsnip: sleuthing of individuals not named as POI/suspect> There are numerous landowners that are ranchers/farmers or have oil well sites in the region.

If you create a free account here, you can see who owns the various sections of land outside the city limits. Just zoom in on an area and hover over/click on a boundaried section of land: https://www.acrevalue.com/plat-map/TX/Hemphill/

If you go here, you can search by name/address/etc. both in and outside the city limits: Hemphill County Appraisal District - Property Data Search
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FYI Persimmon Creek Partnership also goes by Shannon Ranch (which is how I know it by). <modsnip>
 
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jellybean96 said:
FYI Persimmon Creek Partnership also goes by Shannon Ranch (which is how I know it by). <modsnip>
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<modsnip> I haven't driven over to see this road, although I've been to Lake Marvin. The way it appears from the map is that the nearest houses are some distance away, and that part of Persimmon Creek Ranch (the road near where the remains were found) would likely only be used by someone servicing the well site or perhaps checking up on cattle. I'm still surprised that this area had not previously been thoroughly searched, given the proximity to Lake Marvin. Maybe he was buried underneath some underbrush, etc. It breaks my mama heart to think of that boy disposed of out there so near his hometown undiscovered for over 2 years!! I don't know how whoever did this can live with the guilt of it. I doubt the murder was premeditated, and one would hope after the initial emotions subsided, the guilty party would have been overcome with regret, remorse, and a need to come clean. Unless he is a conscienceless sociopath, the murderer is likely living in an emotional jail cell of his own making right now. How can he continue to be silent, knowing he spilled innocent blood? Praying that justice is served!!
 
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Sunny Texas said:
<modsnip> I haven't driven over to see this road, although I've been to Lake Marvin. The way it appears from the map is that the nearest houses are some distance away, and that part of Persimmon Creek Ranch (the road near where the remains were found) would likely only be used by someone servicing the well site or perhaps checking up on cattle. I'm still surprised that this area had not previously been thoroughly searched, given the proximity to Lake Marvin. Maybe he was buried underneath some underbrush, etc. It breaks my mama heart to think of that boy disposed of out there so near his hometown undiscovered for over 2 years!! I don't know how whoever did this can live with the guilt of it. I doubt the murder was premeditated, and one would hope after the initial emotions subsided, the guilty party would have been overcome with regret, remorse, and a need to come clean. Unless he is a conscienceless sociopath, the murderer is likely living in an emotional jail cell of his own making right now. How can he continue to be silent, knowing he spilled innocent blood? Praying that justice us served!!
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<modsnip>

I agree with everything you said, til the last part. Im not convinced the person(s) involved are living in an emotional jail cell at all. I am afraid they feel justified in their actions (for whatever reason!) or that they have done so many 'smaller' crimes, that this just is sadly, just another blip on their conscience. I pray they are found and held accountable.
 
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