TX TX - Yogurt Shop Murders, Austin, 6 Dec 1991

[fruit loop]

Hiw much time would it take to check Reid’s DNA anyway? Oh....I forgot.....the APD doesn’t really want to solve this case. They don’t want the embarrassment.

APD was never capable or competent to investigate a crime like this. They were over their heads from the start. I suspect egos and the desire to pad careers with glory by being the one to solve it have gotten intye way of meaningful progress.

 

[SAMS]

Now following.

 

[Tuffgong]

Hiw much time would it take to check Reid’s DNA anyway? Oh....I forgot.....the APD doesn’t really want to solve this case. They don’t want the embarrassment.

APD was never capable or competent to investigate a crime like this. They were over their heads from the start. I suspect egos and the desire to pad careers with glory by being the one to solve it have gotten intye way of meaningful progress.

APD was not outfitted or ready to handle such a case and it was a tough one to boot. I lay a lot of blame on the second group of investigators that got hold of the case. They differed from Jones and Huckabee in that they just wanted to close it and make it go away. I mean, the first suspects they looked into where the four boys and they arrest them. Seriously, thousands of leads and hundreds of suspects, get the right guys with their first shot. Bullcrap!

That being said, this crime was committed by multiple perps, Reid worked alone. This crime was sexually motivated, Reid's crimes were not. There is nothing that makes him viable.

 

[lauradee12]

News about the DNA, although it's frustrating. Why is the FBI withholding DNA evidence in Austin’s 1991 yogurt shop murders?

 

[Tuffgong]

News about the DNA, although it's frustrating. Why is the FBI withholding DNA evidence in Austin’s 1991 yogurt shop murders?

Read this in the Statesman today. Not sure what to think. The FBI says the DNA will not be helpful and is illegal for them to give, but come on, you are law enforcement! There are so many subtle ways for the FBI to free this info up. Fact is, if one of those hits can be traced back to Austin, we have a case.

 

[jbirner]

Seems very strange to me. I'm no expert on this subject matter by any means, but I would think if there was information that could help solve a case such as this, they would find a way to do so. If I read this right, they said it wouldn't be as helpful as they hoped. Does that mean it could still be somewhat helpful. After 29 years, anything is better than absolutely nothing.

 

[Via Marple]

So, Austin police has been quietly working on the DNA since 2017. Big surprise!

And it is the FBI who is actually making things difficult for them. Bigger surprise....

Why? What reasons can you think of?

 

[Silentob52]

Smells like fear to me. Is it fear of stepping on someone's privacy? Could that privacy be close to a well connected family? Why else would the FBI not want to move forward? Seems like the Texas Legislature needs to create something that will protect law enforcement. So they can obtain and use DNA from familial databases in their quest to capture people who killed innocent girls in yogurt shops. The next case could be a serial baby killer.

 

[Tuffgong]

I know that APD has been working the DNA, of course they believe it can find a fifth guy that can be connected to the original four. However, once they get the results they will have to work what is presented to them. My guess is that this DNA was collected under terms that guaranteed legal privacy of the donors, who were not criminal suspects. The FBI does not wish to break the law, because regardless of their current boss, they are not supposed to break the law. I think APD thinks if they get this DNA sample it is a slam dunk on who did it. I think the FBI is saying, no, you will not be able to narrow down suspects off this, not enough of a profile. This should have been done over the phone, DA and FBI Director, gives us a copy, let us work it, we don't say a word. If we find the guy, we question him and try to pin him down, maybe get a confession, no harm no foul.

 

[Silentob52]

When I gave my DNA to a familial data base I agreed to allowing the sample to be used for "research." Perhaps this is a loophole that could allow it to used by LE?

 

[Silentob52]

My husband mused perhaps there is someone one in witness protection or a CI. All I know is I wished we could let the DNA lead us to a person who visited such unimaginable atrocities upon vulnerable innocent lives and our community's psyche.

 

[SAMS]

My husband mused perhaps there is someone one in witness protection or a CI. All I know is I wished we could let the DNA lead us to a person who visited such unimaginable atrocities upon vulnerable innocent lives and our community's psyche.

Can I say Amen!

 

[Via Marple]

I wonder why APD can't come to some form of agreement with FBI, to keep the profile anonymous. If not possible, perhaps FBI should commit to take over the DNA tracing work to find the suspect. Then the profile would stay anonymous within the FBI.

My wild guess is that it belongs to some secret agent

MOO and I am no expert, or secret agent.

 

[Tuffgong]

I am not thinking anything conspiratorial. I believe that the Austin ADA wants this to be the smoking gun and the FBI believes it is not that at all and does not wish to break the law for something that won't help.

 

[Legally Bland]

The way I understand Y-STR is that it won't have the statistical probability to get a conviction. It's passed from male to male and fairly consistent for about 6 generations.

An exact match of 111 out of 111 markers only indicates that the match is probably a third cousin or closer:

A 111/111 match indicates a very close or immediate relationship. Most exact matches are 3rd cousins or closer, and over half are related within two generations (1st cousins).
FamilyTreeDNA Learning Center – If two men share a surname, how should the genetic distance at 111 Y-chromosome STR markers be interpreted?

The average person has 5 first cousins, 28 second cousins and 175 third cousins. Source: Cousin statistics - ISOGG Wiki (figures are for the UK, so may vary elsewhere).

Add in fathers, sons, brothers, granddads, uncles etc. and the pool of males who share identical Y-STR dna could be as high as 40/50 (guesstimate).

If they can identify a suspect using Y-STR and have a traditional DNA profile to compare it too I'm all for it, but I can sort of understand why they aren't proceeding with this.

There's another case in RI where LE arrested and charged a man using Y-STR but the attorney general isn't going to trial with it -

RI - RI - Christine Cole, 10, Pawtucket, 6 January 1988 *arrest*​

- unfortunately he looks like a good suspect too, he lived above the shop where the victim was last seen.

(I'm not an expert in DNA so I may have made some wild assumptions above.)

 

[Betty P]

So it sounds like the original four accused don't match the DNA, from the link above.

A private lab in Virginia gave that profile to Austin investigators more than a decade ago, and since then, they have been trying to find a match but have been unable. It does not match the four suspects earlier connected to the case, and authorities have not ruled out the possibility that it belongs to someone who wasn't involved in the crime. Still, they said they need to conclusively match the profile with a person.

How did the FBI get the sample that matched the Y-STR profile? Is it safe to say if they have someone's Y-STR profile, it's someone they've been following and investigating and that they may also have a full DNA profile for this person? Is it possible to narrow down the supsects based on the profile, then use regular investigative techniques to narrow the list further, as was done with the Golden State Killer? In that sense, circumstantial and other evidence, combined with Y-STR, could result in a conviction.

Is the FBI still pursuing this investigation, or has it been shelved? So many questions. I can see their reluctance to share much with the Austin PD and prosecutor, considering how badly they handled this case in the past, but surely there's a way to get some answers here. Sounds like, with more investigation, they're very close.

 

[Tuffgong]

The Austin American Statesman had another article today about the story. Deals with the legal hagling going on now. Not buying FBI's position. They seem to believe that the slight inconvenience of relatives that might be connected to the test subject is a violation of privacy. I don't buy that. The whole "privacy" thing is such a subjective thing. However, to me, the murders of four girls take priority over somebody being inconvenienced by a ten minute interview.

 

[jbirner]

The Austin American Statesman had another article today about the story. Deals with the legal hagling going on now. Not buying FBI's position. They seem to believe that the slight inconvenience of relatives that might be connected to the test subject is a violation of privacy. I don't buy that. The whole "privacy" thing is such a subjective thing. However, to me, the murders of four girls take priority over somebody being inconvenienced by a ten minute interview.

Correct. Four innocent lives lost in the most cruel way possible and they are worried about inconveniencing people. If it were me that would be inconvenienced I would be more than happy to help. These families have suffered long enough, from the crime itself and all of the aftermath including the confessions and trials and overturned convictions. It is time to solve this case and I hope that if there is evidence that can at least point LE in the right direction that they use it.

 

[bykerladi]

Seems to me that if the DNA donor voluntarily donated his DNA, then he has no right to complain if its used to solve crimes. You gave up your rights at the door.

 

[Tuffgong]

Seems to me that if the DNA donor voluntarily donated his DNA, then he has no right to complain if its used to solve crimes. You gave up your rights at the door.

Although I agree, I think the study will argue that anonymity was agreed upon in order to encourage donations. Now breech of contract and law comes into play. Courts would throw it out if it was discovered. I just find it so bizarre that the FBI did not try to quietly work with APD. I know it was the Austin DA that went public, but only after denied help repeatedly.