UK - Alesha MacPhail, 6, raped & murdered, Ardbeg, Isle of Bute, Scotland, 2 Jul 2018 -*arrest* #3

[Bustia]

I still can't believe he (the accused) took the stand today - as soon as he could!

I’m really interested in his next witness. I’m thinking possibly the neighbours about the alleged argument between RM and TM and then maybe some friends to corroborate his story about camping etc. I just don’t really see who would want to testify for him unless they have evidence up their sleeve that is yet to come to light. I think tomorrow will really be make or break for his defence tho IMO. Although from my point of view he hasn’t done anything to help his case so far.

 

[Kikixxxx]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> in my mind what possibly can the defence come up with that would make a difference to the dna evidence so far? He’s already said his version of events today on the stand and it’s just not really plausible is it? We know the defence have a witness who says she hears rab and Toni arguing - but what does that prove? Nothing in terms of the death of alesha. And we know there’s another witness who say TM said “ it’s for the best” about alesha dying, I’m not sure if she said that or not, but if she did, again what does that’s prove in terms of anything? The defence did outline his argument in day one (we knew he was saying he had sex with Toni and she planted evidence from condom etc) and that’s when he mentioned the above two witness’. I just think none of that casts a doubt in the prosecutions case in terms of physical evidence my opinion.

 

[Pooksthebear]

Did someone say that the poor babe was placed in a pose too? That shows her killer wanted to cause even more distress to her family

 

[Sillybilly]

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[Taskforce88]

I wonder what the question that led to the scrunched up nose was

 

[Taskforce88]

Did someone say that the poor babe was placed in a pose too? That shows her killer wanted to cause even more distress to her family

The body was discovered face down, no more details have emerged about a pose that I am aware of

 

[Bustia]

I wonder what the question that led to the scrunched up nose was

I’m sure Edinlass found it and linked it in the previous thread. I’ll try and find it and hopefully link it again.

 

[Edinlass]

I wonder what the question that led to the scrunched up nose was

Boy appears to screw his nose up over confusion at a question from the prosecution. Iain McSporran QC says “not the last you’ll hear from me”.

BBM - I don’t think it was to a question but more to the QCs remark. I don’t think this brute likes authority IMO

 

[Bampot]

Who are we thinking for witnesses tomorrow? TM? Who else do you think? Could the prosecution recall RM to provide an alibi for TM?

 

[Edinlass]

Who are we thinking for witnesses tomorrow? TM? Who else do you think? Could the prosecution recall RM to provide an alibi for TM?

RM was sleeping so I can’t see how he can be used as a reliable alibi, I could be wrong. I think as someone else suggested they may have the person who claimed TM said ‘it was for the best’ and friends he went camping with (maybe - although how this helps the defence I’m not sure).

I think Aleshas mum may be called, again I may be wrong, guess work..

 

[404_notfound]

Did someone say that the poor babe was placed in a pose too? That shows her killer wanted to cause even more distress to her family

Teenage boy, 16, accused of Alesha MacPhail's murder shared Snapchat selfie | Daily Mail Online

This Daily Mail article says she was "found naked, face down with her legs spread". As the DNA evidence seems to have been on the front of her body this would suggest possible posing.

 

[sindydee]

Just want to say thank you to everyone that just has posted the tweets and links since the trial started. Much appreciated. Been at work since it started so had to catch up when I get in.

Not sure if anyone can help me out here. I probably have missed something, but one question I do have is why TM was allowed to be accused by the defendant in the first place? Would the police not of questioned her and her boyfriend and confirmed them both as each others alibi? Ruling them out as suspects? Seeing as they were both staying in the flat that night? Just seems really terrible that she has gone through all this if the police had already ruled her out. Or is this what is allowed within the law there?

 

[Bustia]

RM was sleeping so I can’t see how he can be used as a reliable alibi, I could be wrong. I think as someone else suggested they may have the person who claimed TM said ‘it was for the best’ and friends he went camping with (maybe although how this helps the defence I’m not sure). I think Aleshas mum may take the stand, I have a funny feeling, again may be wrong, guess work..

I have been trying to think of reasons why she would be a defence witness (if that’s the case) and the only thing that could make sense in my mind would be to testify to how she found out about Alesha’s disappearance and murder or maybe her relationship towards TM, RM and his family? Obviously just MOO but I do hope that she was a prosecution witness and either never got called to the stand or it wasn’t reported on in the media.

 

[Edinlass]

Just want to say thank you to everyone that just has posted the tweets and links since the trial started. Much appreciated. Been at work since it started so had to catch up when I get in.

Not sure if anyone can help me out here. I probably have missed something, but one question I do have is why TM was allowed to be accused by the defendant in the first place? Would the police not of questioned her and her boyfriend and confirmed them both as each others alibi? Ruling them out as suspects? Seeing as they were both staying in the flat that night? Just seems really terrible that she has gone through all this if the police had already ruled her out. Or is this what is allowed within the law there?

Yes it’s called a ‘special defence’ anyone accused of a crime can lodge a complaint against someone else despite that someone else not having ever been suspected of any wrongdoing, it’s ludicrous and unfair IMO. Makes absolutely no sense to me but there you go.

Special defence - Wikipedia

Says in the above article the special defence must be given 10 days prior to the trial date and all jurors must be aware. Maybe not the prosecution though?

 

[Edinlass]

I have been trying to think of reasons why she would be a defence witness (if that’s the case) and the only thing that could make sense in my mind would be to testify to how she found out about Alesha’s disappearance and murder or maybe her relationship towards TM, RM and his family? Obviously just MOO but I do hope that she was a prosecution witness and either never got called to the stand or it wasn’t reported on in the media.

I know, I agree with you doesn’t make much sense but nor does any of this. Senseless waste of life.

 

[Bampot]

It's a special defence called incrimation. Basically 'it wizny me'

Types of special defenceEdit The types of special defence are: mental disorder (when the offence was committed or before the trial), incrimination (alleging someone else committed the crime), coercion, automatism, self-defence, consent (under some circumstances), or alibi.[8][9] wiki

 

[angeldust]

Soooo something that I was thinking about today.

Most good liars incorporate a bit of the truth.

If there has been a relationship with Toni at some point previous and she’s now snubbed the hook ups. Might be why the falling out in feb allegedly over drugs. Maybe it wasn’t.

Accused is raging that T used him so to get back at her and R he takes A Now I know to any normal minded person that sounds crazy but to a young disturbed mind not so much

I keep thinking about him saying she could have planned it for months fantasised about it. Why on earth would you imply that unless of course it’s how you think

 

[L White]

End of the day, as I stated on the previous thread. This wee lass was 'violated' which (unless the forensics think it wasn't a male) shows Toni cannot be directly involved in some of these acts.

 

[404_notfound]

Not sure if anyone can help me out here. I probably have missed something, but one question I do have is why TM was allowed to be accused by the defendant in the first place? Would the police not of questioned her and her boyfriend and confirmed them both as each others alibi? Ruling them out as suspects? Seeing as they were both staying in the flat that night? Just seems really terrible that she has gone through all this if the police had already ruled her out. Or is this what is allowed within the law there?

Special defence is a thing in Scots law, here's a link for a brief explanation - Special defence - Wikipedia

The accused only has to enter the special defence a few days before proceedings and don't have to prove it in any way. The crown still has to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. It's usually a special defence of self-defence or mental disorder you read of, incrimination is relatively rare. It's not likely to succeed but some lawyers seem to feel it's "worth a punt".

 

[Bustia]

Just want to say thank you to everyone that just has posted the tweets and links since the trial started. Much appreciated. Been at work since it started so had to catch up when I get in.

Not sure if anyone can help me out here. I probably have missed something, but one question I do have is why TM was allowed to be accused by the defendant in the first place? Would the police not of questioned her and her boyfriend and confirmed them both as each others alibi? Ruling them out as suspects? Seeing as they were both staying in the flat that night? Just seems really terrible that she has gone through all this if the police had already ruled her out. Or is this what is allowed within the law there?

Witness ran from 'Gerbil' killers

This is another case in Scotland that used a special defence of incrimination. Interesting as one of the people the defendant blamed was not allowed to be named and another got taken to trial and also used the same defence. Just another example of how messy these incrimination defences can get in Scotland.