UK UK - Alistair Wilson, 30, murdered at home, Nairn, Scotland, 28 Nov 2004

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I have been very interested in this case for a while . U have just finished the Peter Bletchly book and he raised interesting points about a connection with Livingston FC and the envelope turned out to have the name Paul written on it . Someone on another forum brought up the name of a familiar Glasgow gangster with this name. It's my opinion only but I find it odd the wife was never asked to do a photo fit. I also find it very odd that she moved back to the property, being the only person to have seen the killer face on and briefly spoken to him would she not feel her life at risk ? Something really stinks in this case it's just putting the finger on what exactly .
 
Yes, one of the reasons I'm not sure it was a preplanned hit is because of some of the actions of the gunman. Would he really have allowed the wife to see him and not have taken some action. Would he have let AW return inside? Would he be using a 75 year old gun. He shot AW three times but didn't kill him outright. Tend to think he had a gun "just in case" rather than going there with an intention to kill.

As for the wife continuing to live there on one hand it's her home. On the other every time she opened the front door it would all come flooding back. Wouldn't there also be the continual worry he might come back.
 
I know where your coming from and I agree but the IRA also use envelopes etc to distract targets .I'm wondering if the wife wasn't meant to be there . There surely would have been places the gun man could have struck without any one seeing him even if it wasn't intended as a hit but a transaction . Across from a pub at 7.15 pm with possible family at home is odd to me . Why also have the police never released what was said to veronica ? There's so many questions and so few answers
 
They also won't comment on whether they have released all the information on the envelope. Similarly they won't make any comment on the results of their investigation in to the Wilson's financial affairs. I suspect the police know an awful lot about what happened already. If it does involve organised crime it's notoriously difficult to make a successful prosecution.
 
I agree which makes me think not releasing things means they already have the answers but surely it could job memories or rustle feathers and unsettle the guilty and only benefit the investigation of they released more ? I also wonder why they were keen to speak to Sean who had lived in Canada as surely of it had of been him at the door as some papers alluded, Veronica would have recognised him . Would she recognise the gunman as organised crime would have wanted her gone too of she could pick him out . If it was someone not wanting Alistair leaving post at the bank killing him wasn't helping things at all .
 
I suppose the lack of witnesses makes it unlikely more information would come forward. Their best chance is someone who knows what happened coming forward. Almost every part of the sequence of events as reported seems odd. Personally if I was Veronica I would have been terrified the killer may return. Again perhaps there are reasons she feels safe to stay there.
 
And considering they have precious little else to go on you'd think they would want to try at least. On the podcasts Police Scotland's response is a bit odd too. It's a bit waffley but they appear to say the reason they haven't released an e-fit is because they only want to give out reliable information and not confuse anything. Are they hinting at something there?
 
davidt said:
And considering they have precious little else to go on you'd think they would want to try at least. On the podcasts Police Scotland's response is a bit odd too. It's a bit waffley but they appear to say the reason they haven't released an e-fit is because they only want to give out reliable information and not confuse anything. Are they hinting at something there?
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Strange when you see some of the weird photo fits police release of suspects!
 
I don't have a theory as such tbh. Just that I think this is quite possibly more of a "can't prove it" case rather than unsolved as such. There's so little actual evidence it's really hard. Struck me the other day there's only one real account of what happened. No real proof Wilson went to the door twice or if there was an envelope.
 
Brilliant points on an perplexing case. So many questions which must have occurred to the Police who have presumably looked into each and every one and reached some view on them (which they are clearly reluctant to share).

What it boils down to is that AW was visited that evening, and there either was NO reason for this beyond the random unpredictable - OR there WAS a reason.

Since a "no reason" visit would appear to have a very small probability of being the case, common sense would indicate there WAS a reason.

The caller was able to find AW's house, and ask for him by name, and have a conversation of "Minutes" with AW. Whatever this conversation involved and whether or not AW "Understood" it AW MUST have known what was actually said. There had to be a reason for the caller speaking - to convey a message.

Ultimately AW was murdered either through direct (or possibly indirect) involvement in something - or - possibly - as a warning to someone else (who would presumably have to have some connection to AW even if not a strong one).

Yet, whatever the reason the killer allowed AW out of sight - moreover with - if the information we have is correct not knowing why on earth they were there: if this is correct then the whole point of the visit (and the envelope if there was a reason for that) were at the time irrelevant if AW had no clue why the caller was there (Which would have had to be apparent). Meanwhile with no obvious reason to suppose anyone would come back to the door the killer stands about?

If the intent was to kill then there was no reason not to do so on site (and even less to hang about for too long); if the murder was a warning to someone else there was no reason to bring an envelope into the equation. If the envelope had no purpose, why would Wilson even take it - if it did, would the person handing it over not be clear about why?
 
jambers said:
Brilliant points on an perplexing case. So many questions which must have occurred to the Police who have presumably looked into each and every one and reached some view on them (which they are clearly reluctant to share).

What it boils down to is that AW was visited that evening, and there either was NO reason for this beyond the random unpredictable - OR there WAS a reason.

Since a "no reason" visit would appear to have a very small probability of being the case, common sense would indicate there WAS a reason.

The caller was able to find AW's house, and ask for him by name, and have a conversation of "Minutes" with AW. Whatever this conversation involved and whether or not AW "Understood" it AW MUST have known what was actually said. There had to be a reason for the caller speaking - to convey a message.

Ultimately AW was murdered either through direct (or possibly indirect) involvement in something - or - possibly - as a warning to someone else (who would presumably have to have some connection to AW even if not a strong one).

Yet, whatever the reason the killer allowed AW out of sight - moreover with - if the information we have is correct not knowing why on earth they were there: if this is correct then the whole point of the visit (and the envelope if there was a reason for that) were at the time irrelevant if AW had no clue why the caller was there (Which would have had to be apparent). Meanwhile with no obvious reason to suppose anyone would come back to the door the killer stands about?

If the intent was to kill then there was no reason not to do so on site (and even less to hang about for too long); if the murder was a warning to someone else there was no reason to bring an envelope into the equation. If the envelope had no purpose, why would Wilson even take it - if it did, would the person handing it over not be clear about why?
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Excellent set of points there !

Always wonder also why his wife is still safely staying in the same house. Does she genuinely know nothing? Though as the killer seems to have got away with it , why worry about her?
 
Markybug said:
Always wonder also why his wife is still safely staying in the same house. Does she genuinely know nothing? Though as the killer seems to have got away with it , why worry about her?
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Yes - it is intriguing. His Wife mentions nobody felt alarmed at the time - but it seems fair to ask how this could be the case following what then happened - for someone who saw the murderer and could potentially ID them. The Police must have looked into this and are (presumably) content with the response. It seems to point toward the Police knowing a LOT more than they are letting on.
Reports say "It is believed" AW spoke to the killer for "A couple of minutes" - even if it was exactly one minute, that's plenty time to say a fair amount. AW then went back in, and according to the BBC discussed the situation calmly with his wife, thinking of bedding the kids then sitting down to work out what was happening. At the time AW had the envelope. Now, even if AW did not "know" what the caller meant he had to understand what was said. If this was the case - why would he take the envelope (Why would anyone in a similar situation?) - if someone you don't know is at your door, and you've no idea what they want why would you accept an envelope and not tell them to clear off? During the conversation with his wife, it seems difficult to believe AW did not mention ANY of the substance of what was said to him (whether or not he understood it) - perhaps the Police know a little more about what was said at the door?
 
Markybug said:
Unless for example, the debt (if thats what it was) was settled by his death , leaving her safe , and she and the police know this privately?
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That's a possible scenario. The murderer had to have a very good reason to hang about. We know there was some form of discussion - and there has never been any mention of any talk about the envelope: Did the killer hand it over without a word, or say "Take this?" (Why would you accept it?) - Would it be plausible AW would speak to his wife and say "He handed me this envelope, I don't know why?" Or would AW say what the person said on handing it to him? Several theories about the killer/purpose and mistaken identity are around and about - all plausible - yet, (for instance) if the killer was not entirely sure they could have walked away and no one would have ever heard anything about it (AW just wondering about some strange visit): the murderer walked off to the left, and going by where the weapon was found, a roughly 7-10 minute walk away (almost circling back) - they were clearly not fazed by what they'd just done and not in any way concerned about being at the main road when the emergency services would have been at least on the way (if they had a car parked somewhere they could have used a closer spot and there are more drains around than the one the gun was placed in) so this was someone who knew exactly what they were doing. They would not 'wait' on the offchance AW might return to the door without a very good reason: that reason must have been conveyed in what was said at the door (you wouldn't go to speak to someone about one thing but mention something else?)
 
Markybug said:
Do you surmise it was a local ? And the police probably have a idea what the reason is ?
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Looking at where the murder weapon was found is interesting. The killer is known to have departed to the left, down Crescent Road, on foot toward Marine Road. There were then two options.

Turn RIGHT onto Marine Road, and after about 150 yards is the A96. Right again, and it's about 500 yards give or take to where the gun was found. If the killer turned right, he'd need to pass the end of Crescent Road again carrying the weapon (Google Earth/Maps shows the layout).

Turn LEFT onto Marine Road, and basically it would take longer to reach the same point. (Unless the person knew of or took any shortcuts through people's land or gardens/drives).

Was the killer on foot or in a car?

Look at the map/aerial view. If the killer had a car then where would it be located (several nearby options); if they did and took the quickest route to the main road, they'd be heading south east - but the drain is on the wrong side of the road and off the main road too. If the travelled "around the town" they could have arrived there heading down Seabank Rd; if they were driving they'd have to stop, get out the car and walk to the drain. If they were being given a lift they'd still need to stop and presumably open the door. They could then have been away (in either direction) very quickly.

We don't know how the killer got to this point: if they were on foot, and took the shortest route (subject to the point about passing by Crescent Rd entrance again) then the location would seem understandable (close, but not close enough to be found if the Police were looking in drains within a couple of hundred yards).

Again back to the map. If the killer took the route to the LEFT on Marine Road, they had various options - but, to avoid single track roads, and take the quickest exit to the main road (barring anything nearer) Seabank road looks a natural route to take.

In short, if the killer was on foot, (unless they did not mind a much longer walk) then they walked back up the A96; the location of the gun would be impractical if they were in a car heading toward Inverness. If they had (or were in a car) then the drop off point represents the last chance to ditch the weapon before heading out of town. Does the map give any ideas why the weapon would be placed there rather than any other drain on possible routes to that point?

Hard to say then if the killer was local but the gun proves where they went immediately following the murder. I think on balance for the reasons above they turned LEFT onto Marine Road and picked up a vehicle at some point between there and where the weapon was found. Did they have a driver though, or did they indeed walk? Did they simply happen on that drain (not using any others) or did they plan to drop the weapon there? Does it indicate a level of planning (indicating less probability they had the wrong AW?)
 
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