UK UK - Alistair Wilson, 30, murdered at home, Nairn, Scotland, 28 Nov 2004

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The person who orchestrated this hit needed Alistair Wilson dead, on that date, so a mistaken identity murder wouldn't have solved their problem. I think they would not have given up if that was their mindset and the right Alistair Wilson would have been killed within a reasonably short timescale, not necessarily in the same set up, OR they would have gone into hiding immediately, which would have been obvious to everyone who knew them and to the police, or come forward to the police to identify who posed this mortal danger to them, exposing the extortion if there was any, and seeking protection. This person wasn't prepared to get their own hands dirty, but the right victim would have known immediately who was behind it and would still be alive with this knowledge. I don't think they would just carry on their daily lives and ignore the danger they were in and I believe police would have investigated this angle, IMO.
It's an unusual hit. The hitman didn't kill him when he appeared at the door the first time. He let Alistair go back inside the house. Alistair had no reason to go back outside but he did so to see if the hitman was still there and then he was shot. Or so we are told.
 
It's an unusual hit. The hitman didn't kill him when he appeared at the door the first time. He let Alistair go back inside the house. Alistair had no reason to go back outside but he did so to see if the hitman was still there and then he was shot. Or so we are told.
Yes, unusual. I suspect there were people about the first time, or something else didn't go according to plan. IMO
 
And this is why the Lord Advocate has stepped in.
The far greater criticism in the Lawrence and Morgan cases did not produce this response (until it became a political issue). I do not doubt that the case will benefit from a thorough reinvestigation but I am sure there is politics at play. An instruction to reinvestigate is meaningless without the resource to do so and yet the Justice Secretary, who is in charge of that resource and the only one who can ensure a reinvestigation actually happens, seems strangely quiet. I am also concerned about other parallels with the Lawrence case. Progress was only made in that case when the Met put DI Clive Driscoll on it, resulting in 2 convictions after many years. This completely removed the influence of the previous team and enabled a clean reinvestigation by perhaps the most honest copper in the Met (he was the DI who was removed from the Lambeth child abuse investigation in 1998, on political instructions, when he wanted to interview the Boatengs, a cabinet minister and his wife). I see little sign that Police Scotland is making a similar clean sweep.
 
The far greater criticism in the Lawrence and Morgan cases did not produce this response (until it became a political issue). I do not doubt that the case will benefit from a thorough reinvestigation but I am sure there is politics at play. An instruction to reinvestigate is meaningless without the resource to do so and yet the Justice Secretary, who is in charge of that resource and the only one who can ensure a reinvestigation actually happens, seems strangely quiet. I am also concerned about other parallels with the Lawrence case. Progress was only made in that case when the Met put DI Clive Driscoll on it, resulting in 2 convictions after many years. This completely removed the influence of the previous team and enabled a clean reinvestigation by perhaps the most honest copper in the Met (he was the DI who was removed from the Lambeth child abuse investigation in 1998, on political instructions, when he wanted to interview the Boatengs, a cabinet minister and his wife). I see little sign that Police Scotland is making a similar clean sweep.
There might well be politics at work here. I don't believe there is any new information and it seems this move has been prompted by the family's criticism and the fact that they have made a series of formal complaints recently. Why the JS has been quiet on all of this is strange.

A new SIO and a team that’s been in consultation with the Lord Advocate are now in place. JS effectively bypassed.
 
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“We were shocked our request to meet Chief Constable Jo Farrell in a last-ditch attempt to salvage relations was met with an outright refusal.

“Last week’s announcement that Alistair’s murder would be subject to a “complete reinvestigation” was upsetting and a huge disappointment as the announcement felt far from the “good news story” that Police Scotland wanted it to be.

“Our loyalty to and cooperation with Police Scotland has long been taken for granted during a sometimes turbulent relationship that the actions of senior leadership has damaged beyond repair. If Police Scotland has any credibility left, it will prioritise putting investigations and justice ahead of protecting its own reputation.”

Andrew added: “I cannot understand why Paul Livingstone hasn’t been sacked and if Jo Farrell won’t rethink our request for a meeting, then it brings into question her position too.

“What we have suffered is nothing short of incompetent police leadership and, if it continues, it risks getting in the way of catching my dad’s killer and getting the justice we as a family deserve.”

 
The person who orchestrated this hit needed Alistair Wilson dead, on that date, so a mistaken identity murder wouldn't have solved their problem. I think they would not have given up if that was their mindset and the right Alistair Wilson would have been killed within a reasonably short timescale, not necessarily in the same set up, OR they would have gone into hiding immediately, which would have been obvious to everyone who knew them and to the police, or come forward to the police to identify who posed this mortal danger to them, exposing the extortion if there was any, and seeking protection. This person wasn't prepared to get their own hands dirty, but the right victim would have known immediately who was behind it and would still be alive with this knowledge. I don't think they would just carry on their daily lives and ignore the danger they were in and I believe police would have investigated this angle, IMO.
The mistaken identity theory was put forward by the wife of the victim, even though she was the only witness to the gunman asking for her husband 'by name'. If it was a hit and AW was the intended target then it almost didn't work. I think anything that AW had done to warrant such a measure would be obvious to investigators, but there seems little in his back story that would point to a motive. He didn't have any obvious enemies. The objection to the retro planning application is a desperate red herring, IMO
 
The mistaken identity theory was put forward by the wife of the victim, even though she was the only witness to the gunman asking for her husband 'by name'. If it was a hit and AW was the intended target then it almost didn't work. I think anything that AW had done to warrant such a measure would be obvious to investigators, but there seems little in his back story that would point to a motive. He didn't have any obvious enemies. The objection to the retro planning application is a desperate red herring, IMO
Indeed. I'll hold my hands up and say at this stage I'm far from convinced that this was a pre planned killing. To me it looks more like the shooting occurred as a result of a culmination of events on the doorstep that night that happened on the spur of the moment. There's no hard evidence to back up that theory just as there's no hard evidence to back up the pre planned killing theory either.

It's a theme that runs through the whole case. An almost total lack of anything substantive to work on. The recorded events of that night taken as a whole make little sense and each part of those events is open to multiple interpretations which raises even more questions. Nothing really fits in a way that doesn't have its own flaws or problems.

I know it's not going to happen but knowing what AW said to VW is probably the best bet in clarifying things. I think I'm correct in saying that the only part of the conversation that has been released is AW asking if the guy had definitely wanted him and VW replying to say yes he asked for you by name. We have been told some of the circumstances of the conversation such as that AW was baffled or confused but not obviously worried or frightened. Then of course the envelope. I know if I answered the door to someone and spent several minutes speaking to them, that when I went back in the first thing my partner would say is something like "who was it?" and "what did they want?". I think that's what anyone would do. So what did AW say to VW I wonder. He must have said something about the conversation he'd just had on the doorstep.

To all extents and purposes its a case with little evidence, no corroboration, no witnesses and not much in the way of real leads. There's lots of plausible theories but nothing to pin them on.
 
I think I'm correct in saying that the only part of the conversation that has been released is AW asking if the guy had definitely wanted him and VW replying to say yes he asked for you by name. We have been told some of the circumstances of the conversation such as that AW was baffled or confused but not obviously worried or frightened. Then of course the envelope. I know if I answered the door to someone and spent several minutes speaking to them, that when I went back in the first thing my partner would say is something like "who was it?" and "what did they want?". I think that's what anyone would do. So what did AW say to VW I wonder. He must have said something about the conversation he'd just had on the doorstep.

Yes, there was clearly more conversation that happened between AW and VW that has not been released (deliberately, it's a standard police tactic to hold back details).

There was a conversation between the killer and AW that didn't worry him, just "baffled" him. So he wasn't threatened. We have no idea what that conversation was about but whatever AW related to VW about it can't have been anything that produced a clear lead because the police have not solved the case. Perhaps this was a "mistaken identity" not by a hitman (who one might expect to have preplanned the hit in a way that did not involve him getting the entirely wrong house and target, and also having his face seen by someone else in the house other than the target), but by someone who was extremely mentally unwell and his idea of AW was distorted and unreal. His conversation with AW and the handing over of the envelope would have made sense to him, but not to AW or anyone else.
 
Yes, there was clearly more conversation that happened between AW and VW that has not been released (deliberately, it's a standard police tactic to hold back details).

There was a conversation between the killer and AW that didn't worry him, just "baffled" him. So he wasn't threatened. We have no idea what that conversation was about but whatever AW related to VW about it can't have been anything that produced a clear lead because the police have not solved the case. Perhaps this was a "mistaken identity" not by a hitman (who one might expect to have preplanned the hit in a way that did not involve him getting the entirely wrong house and target, and also having his face seen by someone else in the house other than the target), but by someone who was extremely mentally unwell and his idea of AW was distorted and unreal. His conversation with AW and the handing over of the envelope would have made sense to him, but not to AW or anyone else.
Yes it did ocurr to me that it might have been a customer from the bank with some sort of grievance. However there's no indication AW knew or recognised this person. I suppose it could be someone who had only been dealt with remotely though.
 
The mistaken identity theory was put forward by the wife of the victim, even though she was the only witness to the gunman asking for her husband 'by name'. If it was a hit and AW was the intended target then it almost didn't work. I think anything that AW had done to warrant such a measure would be obvious to investigators, but there seems little in his back story that would point to a motive. He didn't have any obvious enemies. The objection to the retro planning application is a desperate red herring, IMO
It could be a case of something AW knew about someone, rather than something he had done.

What tells me it's a hit is that if it wasn't, the killer would have known it wasn't the right AW upon seeing him, and also would have been menacing and threatening, and unable to conceal personal agitation, which would have caused fear or alarm to AW so that he wouldn't have contemplated reopening the door and would've called police. I also think he would think AW had now talked to his wife to identify what it was about and he wouldn't have left her alive either, with that knowledge.
 
It has struck me as odd that the police think the gun is a war souvenir. It was clearly originally made for use in Germany as the inscription would say Germany or 'made in Germany' if for export. But whilst it may have originally reached the UK that way it is not necessary that it remained with the family of whoever brought it over and there is evidence that this model is circulating in criminal circles. A 2018 report at ‘Dangerous’ gang kidnapped and tortured men in return for cash and jewellery has a clear image of exactly the same model used by a kidnap gang. The police have also confirmed that the ammunition was from the 80s or 90s, so whoever had the gun sourced the ammunition separately and very probably long after both the guns and ammunition was made illegal in the UK, making underworld involvement even more likely. The idea that this was a local using a family heirloom to wreak revenge begins to look unlikely faced by the facts about the weapon. It is far more likely that it was acquired illegally (by purchase or theft) or was a deactivated collectors weapon (easy to get even in the UK) subsequently repurposed. If the latter, which should be clear on inspection, it would be even more obvious this was not the work of an amateur.
 
Evening all, I don’t usually dare post but I just had a thought - could it be his wife who knew something but he was not aware. So he was confused, but whatever he passed on (of what was said to him or in relation to the envelope) made sense to her. Part of me thinks but then why wouldn’t she stop him going back, but maybe she thought it was just a warning of some kind and didn’t think he was at risk.

It’s not that I think she’s done anything wrong, just that she might have become aware of something someone didn’t want anyone to know.

This case has always bothered and confused me!
 
Evening all, I don’t usually dare post but I just had a thought - could it be his wife who knew something but he was not aware. So he was confused, but whatever he passed on (of what was said to him or in relation to the envelope) made sense to her. Part of me thinks but then why wouldn’t she stop him going back, but maybe she thought it was just a warning of some kind and didn’t think he was at risk.

It’s not that I think she’s done anything wrong, just that she might have become aware of something someone didn’t want anyone to know.

This case has always bothered and confused me!
It would be good to hear a full account from AW's wife. If the family has complained about the investigation then perhaps they will recount their experience of the event in full on camera. Everything we have is a second hand account. I tend to sympathise with her reported view that her husband was ordinary and had no enemies, so it may well have been mistaken identity. How many middle order bank managers get murdered for lending or debts? It doesn't make sense. The planning objection makes even less sense. MOO
 
It would be good to hear a full account from AW's wife. If the family has complained about the investigation then perhaps they will recount their experience of the event in full on camera. Everything we have is a second hand account. I tend to sympathise with her reported view that her husband was ordinary and had no enemies, so it may well have been mistaken identity. How many middle order bank managers get murdered for lending or debts? It doesn't make sense. The planning objection makes even less sense. MOO
It would be but I don't think we will be getting one. I think it's the police who have told Veronica not to go in to detail about the envelope or to disclose the details of her conversation with Alastair.
 
Evening all, I don’t usually dare post but I just had a thought - could it be his wife who knew something but he was not aware. So he was confused, but whatever he passed on (of what was said to him or in relation to the envelope) made sense to her. Part of me thinks but then why wouldn’t she stop him going back, but maybe she thought it was just a warning of some kind and didn’t think he was at risk.

It’s not that I think she’s done anything wrong, just that she might have become aware of something someone didn’t want anyone to know.

This case has always bothered and confused me!
I think everyone who has looked at this case is bothered and confused by it!
 
It would be but I don't think we will be getting one. I think it's the police who have told Veronica not to go in to detail about the envelope or to disclose the details of her conversation with Alastair.
Yes, the BBC (I think) podcast on the case explained that she has been given instructions on what she can and cannot say.

Also since she saw the killer she must be concerned that she and her kids are at risk.
 
It would be good to hear a full account from AW's wife. If the family has complained about the investigation then perhaps they will recount their experience of the event in full on camera. Everything we have is a second hand account. I tend to sympathise with her reported view that her husband was ordinary and had no enemies, so it may well have been mistaken identity. How many middle order bank managers get murdered for lending or debts? It doesn't make sense. The planning objection makes even less sense. MOO
Whilst I agree killings of bank managers are uncommon it does not mean this was mistaken identity. Firstly, there may have been something else not related to his job behind the killing. This was the case in the Goldman murder in Swindon in 2004 where the victim was a bank manager with a drug problem. Secondly, there could have been dodgy transactions either not disclosed or not uncovered. The Reading branch of HBOS ran what amounted to an organised scheme to defraud business owners for years which was only detected after a long time, resulting in prison terms for what were middle ranking bank managers. Given how long it took to uncover the Reading case imagine how easy it would be to overlook individual cases of transactions which may have caused anger.
None of this means the killing was job related (either directly or indirectly) but I would not rule it out either just as I would not rule out that something else in his private life triggered the killing.
 
Whilst I agree killings of bank managers are uncommon it does not mean this was mistaken identity. Firstly, there may have been something else not related to his job behind the killing. This was the case in the Goldman murder in Swindon in 2004 where the victim was a bank manager with a drug problem. Secondly, there could have been dodgy transactions either not disclosed or not uncovered. The Reading branch of HBOS ran what amounted to an organised scheme to defraud business owners for years which was only detected after a long time, resulting in prison terms for what were middle ranking bank managers. Given how long it took to uncover the Reading case imagine how easy it would be to overlook individual cases of transactions which may have caused anger.
None of this means the killing was job related (either directly or indirectly) but I would not rule it out either just as I would not rule out that something else in his private life triggered the killing.
I'd agree with this. It's akin to trying to prove a negative. Just because you haven't found anything doesn't mean there isn't anything to find. As they say, absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. Also it can sometimes be something that would be considered incredibly trivial to most people that causes extreme rage in someone else. It's possible AW may have done something to upset someone and be completely unaware he had done so and that no one else would know either apart from the individual concerned.
 

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