UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[JG123]

Because in addition to having zero presence online, he was never observed using computers in the school or at the local library, and he showed no interest in doing so at home. I've never come across a case of online grooming in which the victim left no online footprint and was never observed to use computers to access the internet.

Do you remember where you read this? I've always struggled to find much said about his online activity, so any sources where they've elaborated a bit more would be interesting to read.

 

[asyousay]

I often wonder if he intended on being back home before he got in trouble .. as in back before tea time ? Or whether he was just prepared to get a grilling about where he had been for 12/24/48 hrs.

I would say that was highly unlikely because it’s a 2 hour train journey so he didn’t arrive in London until 11.30am. So he would of had to have turned around and been on a train by 1pm if he hoped nobody was going to notice him gone.


IMO

 

[FindingCases]

I often wonder if he intended on being back home before he got in trouble .. as in back before tea time ? Or whether he was just prepared to get a grilling about where he had been for 12/24/48 hrs.

I would say he would more likely have gone to his grandparents' home in the evening and say that he skipped school that day and if he could take refuge at their house during the Weekend before going back home on the Sunday ready for the school week returning on the Monday. I think him doing this on Friday is a bit important to me personally and to me I believe he just wanted the day to himself of independence and spend the weekends at his grandparents before returning home and getting some form of punishment. I'm around his age right now in quite a household where it is perfectly safe and healthy and stable but I feel restricted in a way and want a bit more independence to myself and have some fun for a day.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Please be very careful not to make insinuations or cast aspersions about anyone who is not officially named by LE to be a POI.

Thank you.

 

[Kassanddra]

I often wonder if he intended on being back home before he got in trouble .. as in back before tea time ? Or whether he was just prepared to get a grilling about where he had been for 12/24/48 hrs.

I would say that was highly unlikely because it’s a 2 hour train journey so he didn’t arrive in London until 11.30am. So he would of had to have turned around and been on a train by 1pm if he hoped nobody was going to notice him gone.


IMO

possibly. But because his parents didn’t even notice he was gone until late in the evening. (The dad said in the Missing podcast)

he could have said he’d gone to a mates after school or whatever. Spent up until 5pm Ish in London, back home by 7:30.

 

[Kassanddra]

I wonder if it was the first time he had done this or whether he had successfully done the trip before? Something to think about.

 

[Kiranerys]

I wonder if it was the first time he had done this or whether he had successfully done the trip before? Something to think about.

Didn't they say he had never missed school before?. I guess he could have gone in the holidays but I feel like his parents kept quite a close eye on him generally. Have they ever said what the arrangements were for school holidays?.
If he was trusted to be alone in the holidays then your theory is definitely a possibility.

 

[Danaya]

I used phone chat lines, which were marketed as hookup party lines to adults, as a teenager in 2005. I know of atleast one other teen who did also. There were predators using those lines, looking for underage kids and teens. I was personally groomed this way. You'd leave voice messages for other users online and make plans to meet up. All you needed was access to a phone. A personal, public or payphone could be used.

 

[Kassanddra]

@Kiranerys yes good point about term time/school holidays.

 

[davidt]

I often wonder if he intended on being back home before he got in trouble .. as in back before tea time ? Or whether he was just prepared to get a grilling about where he had been for 12/24/48 hrs.

I think this is unlikely for one particular reason. It was only because of an unfortunate quirk of fate Andrew's bunking off wasn't notified to the parents immediately. That being the school having an incorrect contact number for them. Unless Andrew somehow knew about that surely he nust have assumed his actions that day would have been discovered very early on.

 

[Kitkat28]

I would say he would more likely have gone to his grandparents' home in the evening and say that he skipped school that day and if he could take refuge at their house during the Weekend before going back home on the Sunday ready for the school week returning on the Monday. I think him doing this on Friday is a bit important to me personally and to me I believe he just wanted the day to himself of independence and spend the weekends at his grandparents before returning home and getting some form of punishment. I'm around his age right now in quite a household where it is perfectly safe and healthy and stable but I feel restricted in a way and want a bit more independence to myself and have some fun for a day.

This is more or less exactly what I’ve thought (and said) all along. I think he planned a fun “day off” and then he was going to call a relative and ask if he could stay with them, and get their backup to face the music with his parents.

If it hadn’t gone tragically wrong, he would have got a telling off and then it would have been a funny family story for years to come.

 

[Deathsgrandaughter]

I think this is unlikely for one particular reason. It was only because of an unfortunate quirk of fate Andrew's bunking off wasn't notified to the parents immediately. That being the school having an incorrect contact number for them. Unless Andrew somehow knew about that surely he nust have assumed his actions that day would have been discovered very early on.

I think it was speculated up thread that Andrew, with his perfect attendance, may not have been aware that the school would call his parents. A possibility, IMO, as he seems to have been careful to appear as if it was a normal day to his family. And his actions such as hanging his blazer, uniform in the washer, adds to the suggestion that he is home and in his room.

 

[Deathsgrandaughter]

At 14 he would have been a bit old to have been a cub scout (normal age range: 7 - 12). I'm not at all surprised that he decided to leave.

I don't think he would have been a cub scout, as those only go up to age 10. If he was involved with cubs, it would have been as a helper. If he was a scout, 14 is the age at which scouts transfer to the next age group, Explorers. So it may have been as simple as he decided not to move on to the next stage when Scouts came to a natural end for him.

 

[Carovb5]

To the UK people here: do we know more about the 2 persons they arrested (or interviewed?), possibly linked to Andrew?

 

[Ardoch]

To the UK people here: do we know more about the 2 persons they arrested (or interviewed?), possibly linked to Andrew?

We don't and rightly so at this stage of the investigation.

 

[Ardoch]

Didn't they say he had never missed school before?. I guess he could have gone in the holidays but I feel like his parents kept quite a close eye on him generally. Have they ever said what the arrangements were for school holidays?.
If he was trusted to be alone in the holidays then your theory is definitely a possibility.

I don't know if I read correctly either, but had pupils just returned after the summer break?
Did he spend some of that break in London?

 

[davidt]

I think it was speculated up thread that Andrew, with his perfect attendance, may not have been aware that the school would call his parents. A possibility, IMO, as he seems to have been careful to appear as if it was a normal day to his family. And his actions such as hanging his blazer, uniform in the washer, adds to the suggestion that he is home and in his room.

That's a fair point too. Like just about everything else in this case nothing is clear cut at all.

 

[asyousay]

I think it was speculated up thread that Andrew, with his perfect attendance, may not have been aware that the school would call his parents. A possibility, IMO, as he seems to have been careful to appear as if it was a normal day to his family. And his actions such as hanging his blazer, uniform in the washer, adds to the suggestion that he is home and in his room.

just because he had a perfect attendance doesn't meant he wasn’t aware of school rules.



All kids know that if you don’t attend school registration first thing in the morning the school are straight on the phone to your parents. It’s not hidden it’s just a known fact because schools don’t want you bunking off.

 

[SJ16321]

I don't actually believe he was groomed after the most recent update, I'm of the mind that he went down to London for whatever reason, went off the beaten track a little and was unluckily grabbed or encouraged to go somewhere.

Someone mentioned bullying earlier and as someone who was at school in a similar time period, he was almost certainly being bullied. It's difficult to put in to words why I can be so sure but I just know what it was like back then for a kid who was in to the things that Andrew was in to, not to mention his small stature, being very studious etc.

School had only just started again after the holidays so it's very possible if he was being bullied, he'd just endured a week or so of this and thought you know what I'm not going in today I can't face it, I'll go round London for the day as I like it there.

Although it's impossible to rule out, I just can't buy the grooming thing anymore;

1. The lack of known PC usage. It's not just the police can't find the evidence, nobody can even recall him using a PC that much.

2. The timing. Let's say he uses the PC's after school without anyone noticing, unlikely but technically possible as I know in my school they never locked up the PC rooms. The groomer would have to randomly make contact with Andrew and gain his trust in record time to get him to ditch everything to go to London on a whim within days of first making contact. Even if he was vulnerable due to being bullied, I can't see the rapport being built that quickly.

3. The key thing for me that puts doubt on a groomer is why? If they're based in London (or presumably the South), why on earth would you groom a boy from Doncaster? There's absolutely no guarantee that a 14 year old is even going to have the means to travel almost 200 miles to London.

London also gives you access to a number of vulnerable children where nobody cares about them if they go missing. Why wouldn't you just grab or groom one of them rather than trying to entice a 14 year old boy halfway across the country?

 

[OceanElix]

Children are moved around the country very easily by these gangs.
They target children with a vulnerability, it's irrelevant where in the country they live, they simply move them around the country to wherever they're required.
You likely won't be far from one of these types of gangs, it will be right under your nose and it was happening back when Andew went missing.
Not all grooming is done via the internet in chat rooms.

I'm not sure whether Andrew was targeted before taking the train to London but I wonder if he had spent time in London over the summer holidays and happened to meet someone who managed to gain his trust, maybe the London journey was Andrew going back there to visit him/her.

JMO MOO