UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[ChatteringBirds]

@wtiger What do you see as being asserted as a fact, if I may ask?

I don't think his family actually ruled-out, for example, a hidden phone or that he was in contact with someone or walked home from school more than once.

They have just said that even in retrospect, they don't see anything that would have clued them in to those things, and in their view, it would be out-of-character for him. That there isn't anything, even in retrospect, to indicate those possibilities.

So they aren't as likely, in his family's view, as a rather spontaneous decision to go to London

I think they don't rule out grooming, suicidal thoughts, or anything else. But they are just mystified why, if he had a significant secret, they don't see any clues in retrospect, or why he didn't confide anything to anyone.

 

[davidt]

@wtiger What do you see as being asserted as a fact, if I may ask?

I don't think his family actually ruled-out, for example, a hidden phone or that he was in contact with someone or walked home from school more than once.

They have just said that even in retrospect, they don't see anything that would have clued them in to those things, and in their view, it would be out-of-character for him. That there isn't anything, even in retrospect, to indicate those possibilities.

So they aren't as likely, in his family's view, as a rather spontaneous decision to go to London

I think they don't rule out grooming, suicidal thoughts, or anything else. But they are just mystified why, if he had a significant secret, they don't see any clues in retrospect, or why he didn't confide anything to anyone.

I think its a difficult and possibly sensitive area. I think families are often the last to know or understand what another family member may be going through. If Andrew did have some sort of secret or problem it's possible his family are the last people he would confide in. Especially if it was something they may not agree with or contrary to their own beliefs or moral code etc. Apart from anything else they may have put anything they did notice down to Andrews age and hormones etc.

If Andrew had planned this trip for some time then it would show he did keep secrets from them. If it was literally a last minute decision it doesn't help much at all. Did they ever ask him why he started walking home from school? I would have thought it was an obvious thing to do.

 

[Konstantin]

IMO the point here is that according to his parents account of Andrew, he was NOT the type of kid to leave home without telling anyone.....BUT we know from cctv that he did!

puts doubt upon anything else asserted as fact by them

Kids change when they hit their teens. Andrew may not have been that type of kid at one point, he was probably very close to his parents, esp his dad and then he grew up a bit and changed and wasn't anymore and his parents just didn't know or realize because it wasn't overt. They had known him all his life and thought they had a handle on his life. It's common, not their failing at all. Having a secret mobile to contact someone on would not have been difficult for him, his parents were not searching his room every day.

 

[davidt]

Kids change when they hit their teens. Andrew may not have been that type of kid at one point, he was probably very close to his parents, esp his dad and then he grew up a bit and changed and wasn't anymore and his parents just didn't know or realize because it wasn't overt. They had known him all his life and thought they had a handle on his life. It's common, not their failing at all. Having a secret mobile to contact someone on would not have been difficult for him, his parents were not searching his room every day.

I think I'm correct in saying he had a mobile phone but lost it and didn't want another one. Would be interesting to know how much use the original phone got. If there was any regular use for certain apps or other reasons what did he replace them with when he no longer had a phone and apparently no online presence elsewhere.

 

[Aluev]

I think I'm correct in saying he had a mobile phone but lost it and didn't want another one. Would be interesting to know how much use the original phone got. If there was any regular use for certain apps or other reasons what did he replace them with when he no longer had a phone and apparently no online presence elsewhere.

It's interesting to think back in time, but in 2007 smartphones were not so smart, yet. They were mostly used for texting, music and as... phones! The apps were some silly games, media player, radio, calculator, etc. so there wouldn't be anything worthwhile. Perhaps only his Texts. The IPhone came out that year and changed everything but only for those few that could actually afford it.

 

[Aluev]

Kids change when they hit their teens. Andrew may not have been that type of kid at one point, he was probably very close to his parents, esp his dad and then he grew up a bit and changed and wasn't anymore and his parents just didn't know or realize because it wasn't overt. They had known him all his life and thought they had a handle on his life. It's common, not their failing at all. Having a secret mobile to contact someone on would not have been difficult for him, his parents were not searching his room every day.

It's exactly this point I often think about. What we know of Andrew was his behavior up to adolescence. But he was 14, a time when most teenagers change behaviors, habits and start challenging the world around them so they can form their own opinions and will instead of what is expected of them.

 

[davidt]

It's interesting to think back in time, but in 2007 smartphones were not so smart, yet. They were mostly used for texting, music and as... phones! The apps were some silly games, media player, radio, calculator, etc. so there wouldn't be anything worthwhile. Perhaps only his Texts. The IPhone came out that year and changed everything but only for those few that could actually afford it.

That and just seeing how regularly he used it in general, given after losing it he'd not have that option any more.

 

[davidt]

It's exactly this point I often think about. What we know of Andrew was his behavior up to adolescence. But he was 14, a time when most teenagers change behaviors, habits and start challenging the world around them so they can form their own opinions and will instead of what is expected of them.

He'd stopped going to church which in a small way shows a change of attitude. At his age there may have been all sorts on his mind. Perhaps questioning his sexuality. Or perhaps being so bright was an issue. Being really good at something can be a curse at times. Also just because you are good at something doesn't necessarily mean you enjoy it or want a career based around it. Perhaps he felt under pressure because of it. The school and perhaps family having great expectations. I knew someone once who couldn't cope with being super intelligent and basically destroyed himself in the process. Instead of a sterling career he ended up in prison and then ultimately died at an early age via drugs and other misadventures.

 

[GML1981]

This case has really played on my mind over the years.

I think it’s key that Andrew walked home from school the days prior to his disappearance.

Was there a phone box on his route home from school that he used to contact someone? Perhaps several days of making plans with someone leading up to Fridays journey?

I have a vague recollection of some BT phones boxes having internet access although I’m not sure to what extent or what year this was. Could he have been emailing someone from there which meant no trace as it wasn’t a home/school/library computer.

Also I’m certain I read somewhere he attended a camp for gifted students in the summer holiday, I feel that he met someone there….a camp leader or someone Andrew looked up to and that was who he was going to meet or had lured him to London on some pretence.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

This case has really played on my mind over the years.

I think it’s key that Andrew walked home from school the days prior to his disappearance.

Mine too. This is the case I think I most hope to see solved.

Walking home suddenly could have meant so many things. From dealing with bullying to meeting someone to depression to feeling restless...

I go back and forth on what seems more likely to have happened in Andrew's case.

 

[davidt]

This case has really played on my mind over the years.

I think it’s key that Andrew walked home from school the days prior to his disappearance.

Was there a phone box on his route home from school that he used to contact someone? Perhaps several days of making plans with someone leading up to Fridays journey?

I have a vague recollection of some BT phones boxes having internet access although I’m not sure to what extent or what year this was. Could he have been emailing someone from there which meant no trace as it wasn’t a home/school/library computer.

Also I’m certain I read somewhere he attended a camp for gifted students in the summer holiday, I feel that he met someone there….a camp leader or someone Andrew looked up to and that was who he was going to meet or had lured him to London on some pretence.

Think the summer camp was the year before.

 

[davidt]

Mine too. This is the case I think I most hope to see solved.

Walking home suddenly could have meant so many things. From dealing with bullying to meeting someone to depression to feeling restless...

I go back and forth on what seems more likely to have happened in Andrew's case.

That's why it would be useful if they clarified how often he walked home, when it started and if the family ever asked him why. Was there any pattern to it?

 

[Aluev]

I have a vague recollection of some BT phones boxes having internet access although I’m not sure to what extent or what year this was. Could he have been emailing someone from there which meant no trace as it wasn’t a home/school/library computer.

That is so interesting ! I didn't know such payphones existed, apparently since as early as 2003 according to a photo I found on Alamy. Does anyone know if they were available all over the UK or only in central London?

 

[Candytuft]

Those phones were all over in the North of England towns at around that time - (but not for very long), especially in railway and bus stations.

 

[JSolt1210]

I've always found the information about Andrew walking home front school very frustrating, mainly because it's so vague. As for as I can make out in the weeks leading up to his disappearance he sometimes walked home from school rather than take the bus. But there seems little specific information on this. Exactly when did he start doing this? How many times did he do it, and was there any pattern to it? Clearly if if was the same day(s) each time its much more likely there was a specific reason for doing so rather than just randomly walking home from time to time when he felt like it.

I agree, especially when the school was about five miles away from his neighborhood.

I love to walk, but I wouldn't have wanted to walk 100 New York City blocks at age 14 after school with a heavy backpack. Google estimates it would take about two hours! So yeah, this detail has always stuck out to me too.

Part of me has always wondered if this was just a cover. If Andrew was getting a ride with someone else, two hours would be plenty of time for other activities.

 

[davidt]

I agree, especially when the school was about five miles away from his neighborhood.

I love to walk, but I wouldn't have wanted to walk 100 New York City blocks at age 14 after school with a heavy backpack. Google estimates it would take about two hours! So yeah, this detail has always stuck out to me too.

Part of me has always wondered if this was just a cover. If Andrew was getting a ride with someone else, two hours would be plenty of time for other activities.

You'd have thought the first time he did it his parents would have worried where he was and what he was up to. At the very least surely asking him about it. Yet it seems everything is pretty much silent in that respect.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

My feeling is that they did ask why, and he said he felt like walking home. His father said it was a nice day.

IMO his parents didn't see a reason to be concerned, because he wasn't isolating himself, at least from family, and his grades were good. He hugged his dad good-bye before he left, on the day he disappeared. So I can see them thinking all was fine with him. It's really only in retrospect that parents can see otherwise sometimes.

 

[davidt]

My feeling is that they did ask why, and he said he felt like walking home. His father said it was a nice day.

IMO his parents didn't see a reason to be concerned, because he wasn't isolating himself, at least from family, and his grades were good. He hugged his dad good-bye before he left, on the day he disappeared. So I can see them thinking all was fine with him. It's really only in retrospect that parents can see otherwise sometimes.

Yes, that's quite possible. With my cynics head on I remain to be totally convinced there wasn't something else going on. But the information currently available isn't really enough to draw meaningful conclusions imho.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Yes, that's quite possible. With my cynics head on I remain to be totally convinced there wasn't something else going on. But the information currently available isn't really enough to draw meaningful conclusions imho.

Oh, I also think something was going on, but I don't think his family could have realized it at the time.

Whether he was having a problem with a person or persons and just couldn't take it anymore, or experiencing depression, or he just really wanted some independence that day and something unlikely occurred.

I just don't think any parents out there could have guessed whatever it was or foreseen his disappearance.

 

[davidt]

Oh, I also think something was going on, but I don't think his family could have realized it at the time.

Whether he was having a problem with a person or persons and just couldn't take it anymore, or experiencing depression, or he just really wanted some independence that day and something unlikely occurred.

I just don't think any parents out there could have guessed whatever it was or foreseen his disappearance.

I wondered about bullying on the school bus? I experienced it myself resulting in eventually having to transfer to a different bus. In this case though it seems it was from time to time and I'm not aware of any accounts of bullying.