Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #7 *M. Bridger guilty*

[Uchiki Kuri]

Sorry but as an ex nurse - can not except this one. For goodness sake, amnesia yes. But not murder and then disposing of a body. Oh my! All subsequent murderers could try this one!!!!!!

Did your nursing training include information about alcoholic blackouts?

Someone in alcoholic blackout can remember what happened five minutes ago and so can function relatively normally.

Mark Bridger may be "trying it" because it is true that he can't remember what happened. Some people are more prone to such blackouts than others so he may already be familiar with the experience, whence he can concede that he probably did kill the child.

 

[ann-other]

But he claims to be not guilty of murder or of abduction.

Exactly! So back to square one, what did happen???

 

[ann-other]

Did your nursing training include information about alcoholic blackouts?

Someone in alcoholic blackout can remember what happened five minutes ago and so can function relatively normally.

Mark Bridger may be "trying it" because it is true that he can't remember what happened. Some people are more prone to such blackouts than others so he may already be familiar with the experience, whence he can concede that he probably did kill the child.

After seeing a number of alcoholics yes I feel qualified to answer this. As far as I am aware (but now out of nursing for some years) This is the only alcohol/amnesia related illness:

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=98

IMO there would of been definite signs of this before. Yes reports say he may of been depressed (sorry can't find link at moment) but no, this does not happen as a one off.

 

[Cherwell]

After seeing a number of alcoholics yes I feel qualified to answer this. As far as I am aware (but now out of nursing for some years) This is the only alcohol/amnesia related illness:

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=98

IMO there would of been definite signs of this before. Yes reports say he may of been depressed (sorry can't find link at moment) but no, this does not happen as a one off.

I doubt we're talking about an illness here. It's certainly true that the brain can block out any memory of a traumatic event - and people often reach for the bottle in the immediate aftermath of a traumatic event as well. So I wouldn't rule it out. Nor would I rule out it being a pretence.

Earlier you said that you thought there might be someone else involved. Does that mean you think he's covering up for somebody?

 

[ann-other]

I doubt we're talking about an illness here. It's certainly true that the brain can block out any memory of a traumatic event - and people often reach for the bottle in the immediate aftermath of a traumatic event as well. So I wouldn't rule it out. Nor would I rule out it being a pretence.

Earlier you said that you thought there might be someone else involved. Does that mean you think he's covering up for somebody?

Yes, I totally agree the brain can block out a traumatic event - however this can be unlocked under medical hypnosis. At the moment there is no indication now or before that MB was not 'of sound mind'

Ok, just what if, the person who was with MB (and this is a big if) was so close to him, could he maybe covering up for them? Hence the information about "probably responsible".

 

[Charlie27]

Yes, no one's disputing the judge's words. But most sources are now also reporting the words of Brendan Kelly, the defence barrister. For instance, the Daily Telegraph:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...obably-responsible-for-death-court-hears.html

Im trying to understand the meaning of the 'conceded he probably killed her' wording. Maybe he's saying something to do with her needing her medication, maybe he's saying she had a fit or similar and he did something (ie restrain her) that inadvertantly killed her. He then panicked, got drunk and disposed of the body but can't remember where.. Something along those lines perhaps? Horrible to think such things. Poor April, I really hope she is found.

 

[Clutchbag]

However drunk one gets one cannot forget killing someone or events before they got drunk

It would comeback fairly quickly

I cant imagine someone else was involved and hasnt been named

I cant wait for February 25th

Cant wait for the family to get real closure

I hope if he knows he would tell police where to find her body

I still think this is possibly a case where he was not alone in acting though, or something wierd happened, 46 year old men dont suddenly turn into child killers

 

[ann-other]

Yes, I really hope the family can get closure soon, to get their baby home, whatever that means.

 

[Clutchbag]

Im trying to understand the meaning of the 'conceded he probably killed her' wording. Maybe he's saying something to do with her needing her medication, maybe he's saying she had a fit or similar and he did something (ie restrain her) that inadvertantly killed her. He then panicked, got drunk and disposed of the body but can't remember where.. Something along those lines perhaps? Horrible to think such things. Poor April, I really hope she is found.

Wouldnt he have called 999 during or after? But thats a good idea but once charged with murder should have spilled surely if it was like that
:banghead:

 

[Clutchbag]

Yes, I really hope the family can get closure soon, to get their baby home, whatever that means.

I think they are under no illusion now, sadly with the words he will concede he probably killed her

The worst curse in the world losing your child like this

if Bridger has any conscience he would tell them what happened and where she might be which leads me to think he has none above his own self preservation or fear or whatever or he doesnt know

Like last year, I leave this discussion a bit confused and will come back next month to see

 

[Uchiki Kuri]

However drunk one gets one cannot forget killing someone or events before they got drunk

Alcoholic blackout is not the same as getting very drunk. It's a separate phenomenon.

It would comeback fairly quickly

Blackout is blackout. The memory of what occurred during a blackout doesn't come back.

After seeing a number of alcoholics yes I feel qualified to answer this. As far as I am aware (but now out of nursing for some years) This is the only alcohol/amnesia related illness:

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=98

IMO there would of been definite signs of this before. Yes reports say he may of been depressed (sorry can't find link at moment) but no, this does not happen as a one off.

No, "seeing a number of alcoholics" doesn't qualify as training about alcohol-induced amnesia.

Alcoholic blackout is a very specific phenomenon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_(alcohol-related_amnesia)

 

[blefuscu]

As a former alcoholic (3.5 years sober) I can quite definitely say that blackouts aren't just "oh I forgot a few minutes), I and other alcoholics I know have completely lost days when we can't remember anything at all. Anything.

However until we hear the evidence he gives it's purely speculation as to why he's pleading not guilty but he's likely to concede that he's responsible for her death.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

Im trying to understand the meaning of the 'conceded he probably killed her' wording. Maybe he's saying something to do with her needing her medication, maybe he's saying she had a fit or similar and he did something (ie restrain her) that inadvertantly killed her. He then panicked, got drunk and disposed of the body but can't remember where.. Something along those lines perhaps? Horrible to think such things. Poor April, I really hope she is found.

Don't think that works because he's pleaded not guilty to the concealment charge, so he can't say he's forgotten where he put her because that would be admitting he'd disposed of the body.

The earlier part of your suggestion sounds terribly like Ian Huntley

 

[YidArmyRach]

How long does an alcoholic blackout period last? Long enough to kill someone, dump their body in such a good place no one can find it, and then clean up all the evidence afterwards? Really???

 

[Orgona]

As a former alcoholic (3.5 years sober) I can quite definitely say that blackouts aren't just "oh I forgot a few minutes), I and other alcoholics I know have completely lost days when we can't remember anything at all. Anything.

However until we hear the evidence he gives it's purely speculation as to why he's pleading not guilty but he's likely to concede that he's responsible for her death.

Congratulation on your achievement!
I'm sure none of you murdered and disposed anyone in that state and forgot about it.
I think to be able to plan and execute an abduction, abuse and or murder the victim then conceal their body successfully, that person needs to be in a mental place where they know what they are doing. I don't believe you can do this on auto pilot.
I do believe one can go out and drink themselves to the point of complete blackout afterwords but I have trouble believing that a person being in that state of drunkenness would be able to think clearly and do complex things.

 

[ann-other]

As a former alcoholic (3.5 years sober) I can quite definitely say that blackouts aren't just "oh I forgot a few minutes), I and other alcoholics I know have completely lost days when we can't remember anything at all. Anything.

However until we hear the evidence he gives it's purely speculation as to why he's pleading not guilty but he's likely to concede that he's responsible for her death.

I was also married to an alcoholic who died many years ago at the age of 34 from an alcoholic induced heart attack (all his organs were failing). Yes he had periods where he could be violent and then amnesia but he would have known despite his state, if he had murdered anyone and even more so if he had disposed of a body!!! Not getting this one folks sorry:banghead:

 

[Cherwell]

How long does an alcoholic blackout period last? Long enough to kill someone, dump their body in such a good place no one can find it, and then clean up all the evidence afterwards? Really???

According to blefuscu's post above, it can last days.

But how do you know that all the evidence was cleaned up? The police must have found something compelling enough to bring a murder charge.

I do believe one can go out and drink themselves to the point of complete blackout afterwords but I have trouble believing that a person being in that state of drunkenness would be able to think clearly and do complex things.

Believe it or not, that does seem to be the case.

En bloc blackouts are classified by the inability to later recall any memories from the intoxication period, even when prompted. These blackouts are characterized also by the ability to easily recall things that have occurred within the last 2 minutes, yet inability to recall anything prior to this period. As such, a person experiencing an en bloc blackout may not appear to be doing so, as they can carry on conversations or even manage to accomplish difficult feats. It is difficult to determine the end of this type of blackout as sleep typically occurs before they end.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_(alcohol-related_amnesia)

 

[CherryPie]

Lets not forget he's pleaded not guilty to abduction. So, how will he explain that away? He had permission, he had implied permission, he did not take her in his car, he had parental rights (rumour around SN sites).

If he did not abduct her, then what. And he didn't conceal her, then what?

I still need someone to explain to me how the description of the car April got into changed so drastically. Posters were all over FB designed by the family of a white van, the first police description was of a light coloured van type car. The elderley witness who reported a suspiscious CAR driving around the garages before driving off was not a left hand drive vehicle, so can be ruled out as MB's landrover.

He is saying he is probably responsible for her death, but not guilty to abduction or concealment. This is driving my brain a bit crazy.

 

[CherryPie]

Just thinking maybe the car issue is why he is pleading not guilty to abduction. If the only witness is a 7 year old child, who failed to give an accurate description of the vehicle, or identify MB (despite living in the same street for a period of time), and there are no credible forensics bearing in mind April had been in his vehicle before?

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Lets not forget he's pleaded not guilty to abduction. So, how will he explain that away? He had permission, he had implied permission, he did not take her in his car, he had parental rights (rumour around SN sites).

If he did not abduct her, then what. And he didn't conceal her, then what?

I still need someone to explain to me how the description of the car April got into changed so drastically. Posters were all over FB designed by the family of a white van, the first police description was of a light coloured van type car. The elderley witness who reported a suspiscious CAR driving around the garages before driving off was not a left hand drive vehicle, so can be ruled out as MB's landrover.

He is saying he is probably responsible for her death, but not guilty to abduction or concealment. This is driving my brain a bit crazy.

The type of vehicle seen by the elderly witness was never revealed, AFAIK. Around the same time two men saw Bridger driving erratically and one was almost hit by his car. The description of the vehicle which April got into was from a child witness.