GUILTY UK - Arthur Labinjo Hughes, 6, killed, dad & friend arrested, June 2020 #3

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I really feel for this jury, I’m sure many of them will require some counselling after this trial is over. This will stay with them forever, I’ve always wanted to sit on a jury, but I don’t think I could have done it for this trial. Arthur suffered so terribly at the hands of these two. IMO it isn’t disputable that they ultimately caused his death, it’s just a case of establishing the intent.

I dread the articles we are going to read after the verdicts are reached, I think there is evidence that hasn’t been made public yet. MOO
 
I have a question regarding the video, audio and picture of Arthur's bruising that were released by the police - this was during ET's 3 day court absence. Can anyone explain what the strategy would be to release the above during the trial? And why specifically at that point during the trial? I would be very interested if anyone "in the know" could shed some light on this?
 
The more i read yesterday the more i was lead to believe that TH was mistreating Arthur well before ET came on the scene. Saying oh no heres Dad in Feb when he collected him from school and now the revelations Arthur had fears for a lomg time his Dad would kill him
 
Sorry to ask this again, I’ve seen it mentioned but can’t grasp what the instruction to the jury is.

If they find ET guilty of murder, do they have to find TH guilty of murder too not manslaughter?

So hypothetically, if they don’t think that there is enough evidence to convict TH of murder then there’s a chance they may go with manslaughter for him which effectively means ET would get manslaughter too. If they can’t find TH guilty does that mean they can’t convict ET either?

Is the instruction that TH cannot be convicted of a more serious charge than ET? The verdicts have to be the same for both? Do both have to either be guilty or not guilty of murder OR manslaughter? So TH cannot be guilty of murder if ET is guilty of manslaughter and vice versa.

So, hypothetically, could ET be found guilty of murder and TH guilty of manslaughter? Is that a possibility?

Sorry if none of this makes sense!

No, they don’t have to be found guilty of the same charge, however TH cannot get a higher verdict than ET.
If they don’t find her guilty of murder, and instead guilty of manslaughter, he can’t be found guilty of murder. His was the secondary charge of allowing or encouraging.
 
The more i read yesterday the more i was lead to believe that TH was mistreating Arthur well before ET came on the scene. Saying oh no heres Dad in Feb when he collected him from school and now the revelations Arthur had fears for a lomg time his Dad would kill him

ET and TH were together in Feb weren’t they?
 
No, they don’t have to be found guilty of the same charge, however TH cannot get a higher verdict than ET.
If they don’t find her guilty of murder, and instead guilty of manslaughter, he can’t be found guilty of murder. His was the secondary charge of allowing or encouraging.


Anyone here thinks ET will only get manslaughter ?!
 
I'm not surprised, but how depressing that, after the horrific life and death of this little boy, they are blaming each other. There is compelling evidence of both of their roles, over a long period of time, neither could have any realistic hope that the other will be found to be the one to blame. And yet here they are.
 
The only reason I hope that he gets slightly less time than her, is to let her feel the jury thought her the instigator.
I am new to the case, been reading the trial testimony mostly. So I am kind of like a juror--knowing little about the case except for what told by the attorneys and witnesses.

I have to say, they both sound absolutely horrid and locking them both up is a must. :mad:...although it does sound like she is the one who stirred the pot for sure.
 
Can anyone explain why, in legal terms, TH is also accused of murder when it’s obvious that ET did the fatal attack?

What criteria would have to be met for TH to be convicted of murder rather than causing or allowing? Is encouraging/requesting murder legally equivalent to murder?

I know that TH made repeated threats to Arthur to murder him, expressed intentions of severe violence and murder towards him in his communications with ET, and also instructed ET to carry out violence on Arthur on numerous occasions.

Is this circumstantial evidence that he could have encouraged the fatal act that day, in the phone call before Arthur’s murder?
In my opinion -

The fatal assault on Arthur, with intention, meets the definition of murder.

The injuries to his brain and spinal cord, and the blunt force trauma, as well as the bleeding in his brain which showed a day or two of healing, caused by salt poisoning, and restricted water intake, ignoring his requests for a doctor when he was suffering with headache through his last night on the concrete floor - and instead ramping up the violence and pouring salt down him - showed intent to cause death. (IMO) Intent to hasten an end to the problem. There was no future for Arthur unless they stopped but neither of them was prepared to stop because that would require self-recrimination (not present) and agreement, or TH to leave with Arthur and the torture, the 130 fresh bruises, to come to the attention of TH's family, and doctors. She will not admit the salt poisoning because that intention was not formed in the spur of the moment, IMO. I don't think she dreamed for one minute that they would test him for salt, she thought she could convince medics and police he was into beating himself up and throwing himself into walls, because that's the story she tried on the hairdresser.

When police reviewed the evidence, spoke to witnesses, saw the reports to SS, saw the texts and the CCTV, got the experts to assess what had happened to Arthur, they knew this could and would not have happened without TH and ET working together. There was nothing separating their involvement in the torture of Arthur but the salt, and the salt did not kill him. TH was as much responsible because Arthur was at the point of dying, at the point of not being able to survive the next assault and that could have been and was until that point, coming from either and both of them.

TH was as responsible as ET. Say there were two people stabbing someone and one knife wound to the heart caused the death, that is joint enterprise murder. This isn't joint enterprise, I believe, because TH was out of the house. TH now denies most of his violent assaults,

"Hughes reiterates he never pressure pointed Arthur and states he gave 'little squeezes' to his neck as an affectionate gesture."

"[Prior QC] argues there is no logic in his stance not to plead guilty just so the jury can 'hear what I have to say before making a decision'."

"[Richmond QC] tells the jury Hughes is ultimately in 'your charge' and there was no real point in him standing up and pleading guilty."

and thinks he can get out of everything by saying he never meant what he said, and 'prove everything'. The point about that is that it shows no remorse and in the memory of Arthur he says 'I will lie about what I did to you and I will accept a not guilty verdict'.

Bottom line, if this was murder and they acted with the same level of culpability (bar the salt) he has to face the same charges as her, as secondary party because he was out for an hour.

When I look at the guidelines for "causing or allowing a child to suffer serious physical harm, or death", and the maximum sentence for it (14 years), this was a step up - intent to cause GBH. Intent being in their behaviour over the days before his death and in the escalation. Too egregious over its course to be classified as causing or allowing a death. If this had happened to an adult and not a child it would be classed as murder too. JMO
 
I read somewhere in the web hole of articles on this case that a neighbour did call social services and the police due up the constant name calling and child screaming coming from that house. Arthur could be heard saying “it hurts it hurts”

This neighbour has since tagged people in her post as a “shame on you” for not acting. Police / social service companies etc. she said the walls between properties were very thin.

This was a daughter of the man who lived next door.


I don’t know which neighbour sat at the stand and said she didn’t really hear anything that sounded horrible anf it wasn’t a big deal. Clearly not the same neighbour !!


Another missed opportunity for Arthur

I can’t find the post I’m sorry. Jusr read it in the early days of knowing abt the case

Another potential *advertiser censored** up from social services though if indeed it’s substantiated.
 
In my opinion -

The fatal assault on Arthur, with intention, meets the definition of murder.

The injuries to his brain and spinal cord, and the blunt force trauma, as well as the bleeding in his brain which showed a day or two of healing, caused by salt poisoning, and restricted water intake, ignoring his requests for a doctor when he was suffering with headache through his last night on the concrete floor - and instead ramping up the violence and pouring salt down him - showed intent to cause death. (IMO) Intent to hasten an end to the problem. There was no future for Arthur unless they stopped but neither of them was prepared to stop because that would require self-recrimination (not present) and agreement, or TH to leave with Arthur and the torture, the 130 fresh bruises, to come to the attention of TH's family, and doctors. She will not admit the salt poisoning because that intention was not formed in the spur of the moment, IMO. I don't think she dreamed for one minute that they would test him for salt, she thought she could convince medics and police he was into beating himself up and throwing himself into walls, because that's the story she tried on the hairdresser.

When police reviewed the evidence, spoke to witnesses, saw the reports to SS, saw the texts and the CCTV, got the experts to assess what had happened to Arthur, they knew this could and would not have happened without TH and ET working together. There was nothing separating their involvement in the torture of Arthur but the salt, and the salt did not kill him. TH was as much responsible because Arthur was at the point of dying, at the point of not being able to survive the next assault and that could have been and was until that point, coming from either and both of them.

TH was as responsible as ET. Say there were two people stabbing someone and one knife wound to the heart caused the death, that is joint enterprise murder. This isn't joint enterprise, I believe, because TH was out of the house. TH now denies most of his violent assaults,

"Hughes reiterates he never pressure pointed Arthur and states he gave 'little squeezes' to his neck as an affectionate gesture."

"[Prior QC] argues there is no logic in his stance not to plead guilty just so the jury can 'hear what I have to say before making a decision'."

"[Richmond QC] tells the jury Hughes is ultimately in 'your charge' and there was no real point in him standing up and pleading guilty."

and thinks he can get out of everything by saying he never meant what he said, and 'prove everything'. The point about that is that it shows no remorse and in the memory of Arthur he says 'I will lie about what I did to you and I will accept a not guilty verdict'.

Bottom line, if this was murder and they acted with the same level of culpability (bar the salt) he has to face the same charges as her, as secondary party because he was out for an hour.

When I look at the guidelines for "causing or allowing a child to suffer serious physical harm, or death", and the maximum sentence for it (14 years), this was a step up - intent to cause GBH. Intent being in their behaviour over the days before his death and in the escalation. Too egregious over its course to be classified as causing or allowing a death. If this had happened to an adult and not a child it would be classed as murder too. JMO


I agree so much on this


They lost control. Entire control in those last weeks. How could they emerge with little Arthur after lockdown with him being so de- conditioned ???
Whet explanation could they give the school/ . Their parents?!?


They couldn’t keep him locked up forever regardless of lockdown.
I did wonder if they kept going inspite of his weakness to just say his eating issues caused his malnutrition, And hence death.


I think they felt the heat of their actions as things at that point were stating to open up in the UK.

my sweet Arthur You must’ve felt so rotten physically that day already :(
 
Judge begins summing up
The trial resumes for day 37.

Judge Wall tells the jury his 'final task' is to sum up the evidence in the case. He states he is not going to repeat everything they have heard because that would take days, if not weeks.

Judge Wall says: "I will refer only to the evidence I feel might be of real significance."

He states he will deal with the evidence in three tranches; the medical evidence, the events leading up to Arthur's death and then the cases presented by the defendants.

Judge Wall starts with the medical evidence. He advises the jury to start with the 'agreed facts'.


Judge begins summing up in Arthur Labinjo-Hughes murder trial
 

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