Found Deceased UK - Caroline Everest, 18, Sheffield, 22 Nov 2015

[sar2them1984]

If that is an official websleuths rule then I will of course stop discussion of consensual sex but if it isn't then I don't see anything wrong in discussing the possibility that she may have had consensual sex that night rather or even as well as being raped. Just because somebody is questioned on suspicion of rape doesn't always mean that police are 100% sure that rape definitely occurred. I agree that she could well have been raped; it does seem likely.

Yes so here's my thoughts...Obviously the police at this moment in time feel there is enough evidence to arrest this person "on suspicion" of rape.. so what could have led the police to this conclusion

A. Cctv evidence of the rape occurring - would be pretty inconclusive I would have thought and I'm pretty sure a charge would have been bought by now if it was that clear cut

B. The PM flagged up some evidence of a sexual nature -normally flagged up by bruising, tearing etc but this isn't 100% conclusive of rape. Some people bruise easily, some people like their sexual encounters to be a bit rough and ready

C. PM flagged up recent sexual activity with DNA match to man (non violent I. E no bruising etc). Police able to view CCTV can see that Caroline is in no fit state to give consent to sex

D. DNA found on caroline suggests sexual activity. Dna matches person known to police for sexual crimes thus consulsion sex was non consensual and rape

Unless the police have the rape on CCTV then I can't see how they can 100% say the sex was non consensual

What are people's thoughts?

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[Elainera]

If that is an official websleuths rule then I will of course stop discussion of consensual sex but if it isn't then I don't see anything wrong in discussing the possibility that she may have had consensual sex that night rather or even as well as being raped. Just because somebody is questioned on suspicion of rape doesn't always mean that police are 100% sure that rape definitely occurred. I agree that she could well have been raped; it does seem likely.

He has been arrested, not only questioned, so they must have pretty strong evidence that he did rape her.

Of course she could have had consensual sex as well with someone else but I don't see the point speculating about that. It's moot, don't you think?

 

[sar2them1984]

He has been arrested, not only questioned, so they must have pretty strong evidence that he did rape her.

Of course she could have had consensual sex as well with someone else but I don't see the point speculating about that. It's moot, don't you think?

Well it's not a moot point to the person arrested on suspicion of rape if no rape occurred. Just saying..

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[ColourPurple]

I want to thank everyone here for the interesting and civil discussion, the insight, the maps, etc!

I feel very sad this happened to this lovely young woman







Since the autopsy did not show an obvious cause of death I believe there can only be two causes: hypothermia, or some kind of drug. I'm sure samples are being tested for drugs and toxins now. Only if/when they come back negative will the coroner turn to hypothermia as a probable cause of death.

Hypothermia does not leave any signs in a body, the determination is made by way of excluding all other causes and taking circumstances into consideration.

I think it is quite likely she died of hypothermia that night, it doesn't need to be freezing for it to occur.

My theory at the moment is that after the rape she might have been so freaked out that she just tried to get to the next major road to get help, or maybe to a hospital or doctor she knew? Is there a hospital in the area? She might have been confused and irrational, and maybe she was drunk as well, and walked aimlessly, scared. Is it possible she climbed over the wall down to the water to wash herself? Might she have passed out and lay in the cold, maybe even in the water (without drowning) and died from hypothermia? I can even see a scenario where she was so crushed by what just happened that she just sat there by/in the water, cold and shivering, but unable to get up and walk home, and just fell asleep at some point, and didn't wake up again. Possible?




The gap in time must have been when she was raped?

if the gap of time is when she was raped it leads us back to a second incident happening afterwards that ended with her death.

The washing herself in the stream theory is interesting. You do read of rape victims trying to wash themselves clean afterwards. I've never heard of somebody doing that in stream water but maybe it's possible.

Re the temperature, it was very near freezing last weekend and I heard the weather girl saying the wind chill made it feel below freezing. I think hypothermia is a real possibility.

 

[Elainera]

Yes so here's my thoughts...Obviously the police at this moment in time feel there is enough evidence to arrest this person "on suspicion" of rape.. so what could have led the police to this conclusion

A. Cctv evidence of the rape occurring - would be pretty inconclusive I would have thought and I'm pretty sure a charge would have been bought by now if it was that clear cut

B. The PM flagged up some evidence of a sexual nature -normally flagged up by bruising, tearing etc but this isn't 100% conclusive of rape. Some people bruise easily, some people like their sexual encounters to be a bit rough and ready

C. PM flagged up recent sexual activity with DNA match to man (non violent I. E no bruising etc). Police able to view CCTV can see that Caroline is in no fit state to give consent to sex

D. DNA found on caroline suggests sexual activity. Dna matches person known to police for sexual crimes thus consulsion sex was non consensual and rape

Unless the police have the rape on CCTV then I can't see how they can 100% say the sex was non consensual

What are people's thoughts?

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

I think there must have been several signs a rape occurred. Maybe Caroline was seen on CCTV trying to get away from this man and he was holding her or shoved her into a car or something similar that clearly showed she didn't want to be with him. I think the 'parting ways' comment means that at this point they are not telling us all they have seen on CCTV. In addition, they might have seen signs of rape in the PM.

I don't think DNA matches can be done so quickly?

 

[annablume]

My theory at the moment is that after the rape she might have been so freaked out that she just tried to get to the next major road to get help, or maybe to a hospital or doctor she knew? Is there a hospital in the area? She might have been confused and irrational, and maybe she was drunk as well, and walked aimlessly, scared. Is it possible she climbed over the wall down to the water to wash herself? Might she have passed out and lay in the cold, maybe even in the water (without drowning) and died from hypothermia? I can even see a scenario where she was so crushed by what just happened that she just sat there by/in the water, cold and shivering, but unable to get up and walk home, and just fell asleep at some point, and didn't wake up again. Possible?

Great theory and very possible

 

[Tortoise]

I think there must have been several signs a rape occurred. Maybe Caroline was seen on CCTV trying to get away from this man and he was holding her or shoved her into a car or something similar that clearly showed she didn't want to be with him. I think the 'parting ways' comment means that at this point they are not telling us all they have seen on CCTV. In addition, they might have seen signs of rape in the PM.

I don't think DNA matches can be done so quickly?

Nothing's definite about the allegation until he's been charged, and even then he's not guilty until convicted.

 

[ColourPurple]

Yes so here's my thoughts...Obviously the police at this moment in time feel there is enough evidence to arrest this person "on suspicion" of rape.. so what could have led the police to this conclusion

A. Cctv evidence of the rape occurring - would be pretty inconclusive I would have thought and I'm pretty sure a charge would have been bought by now if it was that clear cut

B. The PM flagged up some evidence of a sexual nature -normally flagged up by bruising, tearing etc but this isn't 100% conclusive of rape. Some people bruise easily, some people like their sexual encounters to be a bit rough and ready

C. PM flagged up recent sexual activity with DNA match to man (non violent I. E no bruising etc). Police able to view CCTV can see that Caroline is in no fit state to give consent to sex

D. DNA found on caroline suggests sexual activity. Dna matches person known to police for sexual crimes thus consulsion sex was non consensual and rape

Unless the police have the rape on CCTV then I can't see how they can 100% say the sex was non consensual

What are people's thoughts?

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

Yup all pretty much along the lines I was thinking. Maybe even without DNA being found on Caroline, when they identified who the man was on CCTV it was somebody with previous sex crimes.

I wonder too if he fits any of the descriptions that the two recent rape victims gave.

 

[ColourPurple]

He has been arrested, not only questioned, so they must have pretty strong evidence that he did rape her.

Of course she could have had consensual sex as well with someone else but I don't see the point speculating about that. It's moot, don't you think?

They'd need to arrest him to question him about rape really as it's a serious crime but at this stage he hasn't been charged. If evidence of sexual activity before death is the reason they're considering rape then no I don't think discussing possible consensual sex is moot. At this stage we don't know what evidence they do or don't have or whether the man arrested is responsible for anything.

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder if she still had her bag with her when she was seen on cctv alone walking towards the river.

 

[Amonet]

The wording in the police update suggested that the guy under arrest is believed to be the one on CCTV, and that they believe he raped her. I think until we get further information that is what we have to go on. I know everything is speculation but the discussion about consensual sex when someone was under arrest for suspected rape seemed to be derailing things over something which is contrary to what the police have currently stated. (There was nothing wrong with bringing up the suggestion, just that in light of the police updates it seems not relevant at this time, but it was taking the focus for a while, which was why I said what I said).

It is all very odd. A car journey would explain a lot, but I don't think they've mentioned a car. All they've said is that they still want to trace Caroline's movements during the time after she left the club.

(Someone's PM box (not mine) is at quota and they are unable to receive PM's...)

 

[ColourPurple]

The wording in the police update suggested that the guy under arrest is believed to be the one on CCTV, and that they believe he raped her. I think until we get further information that is what we have to go on. I know everything is speculation but the discussion about consensual sex when someone was under arrest for suspected rape seemed to be derailing things over something which is contrary to what the police have currently stated. (There was nothing wrong with bringing up the suggestion, just that in light of the police updates it seems not relevant at this time, but it was taking the focus for a while, which was why I said what I said).
)

Ok, no worries. We'll have to agree to disagree then.

 

[ColourPurple]

I wonder if she still had her bag with her when she was seen on cctv alone walking towards the river.

It's unusual that they haven't asked for people to look out for a phone or bag or anything, even before they arrested anybody. Sounds like they already have everything.

 

[ColourPurple]

Aww one of Caroline's friends has started a facebook campaign to get everybody to stand and applaud her 18 minutes into Sheffield Wednesday's next football match. Apparently she was a big fan. I bet the team will pay their own tribute too.

 

[Elainera]

The wording in the police update suggested that the guy under arrest is believed to be the one on CCTV, and that they believe he raped her. I think until we get further information that is what we have to go on. I know everything is speculation but the discussion about consensual sex when someone was under arrest for suspected rape seemed to be derailing things over something which is contrary to what the police have currently stated. (There was nothing wrong with bringing up the suggestion, just that in light of the police updates it seems not relevant at this time, but it was taking the focus for a while, which was why I said what I said).

It is all very odd. A car journey would explain a lot, but I don't think they've mentioned a car. All they've said is that they still want to trace Caroline's movements during the time after she left the club.

(Someone's PM box (not mine) is at quota and they are unable to receive PM's...)

I agree with this. This is how I see it too.

 

[Ironside]

How long before they have to charge or release this man? Wonder if he fits the description of the rapist.

 

[Cherwell]

How long before they have to charge or release this man?

About 4 days if they apply for all the extensions, and are granted them.

 

[Magneto]

Article dated 18th October, 2015

Two rape attacks on young women in the Arundel Gate area of Sheffield on two consecutive days (nights). This is where Caroline's halls of res are situated. Both attacks took place around 2 to 3 in the early hours of the morning.

http://www.heart.co.uk/yorkshire/news/local/2-rape-in-sheffield-in-2-days/#Ug6Xf4bliumTtU83.97

This is Interesting that there is someone in Sheffield clearly here raping young woman wether it could be the same With what has happened to Caroline time will only tell but the difference in this case the victim has ended up dead who knows what dark encounters are lurking out there at that time of night

 

[CoverMeCagney]

This is Interesting that there is someone in Sheffield clearly here raping young woman wether it could be the same With what has happened to Caroline time will only tell but the difference in this case the victim has ended up dead who knows what dark encounters are lurking out there at that time of night

In the news article about the October attacks (both near Tank nightclub and both between 2am and 3am) there are two different descriptions. Awful to think there could be a pair of sex attackers working together but the police aren't linking them. Who knows...?

Detectives are not linking the two attacks which happened around the area of Arundel Street and Arundel Gate, near to Tank nightclub.

A 22-year-old woman was raped by a man in or around the Arundel Gate area between 2am and 3am on Sunday, October 11. The offender is described as being of mixed race, between 23 and 26-years-old, of medium build. He was with another man, who was white and did not assault her.

An 18-year-old woman was raped in the Arundel Street area at around 2am on Tuesday, October 13. The attacker is described as being white, 6ft tall, of skinny build, with a deep voice and northern accent. He wore a black woolly hat, a navy top, jeans and trainers.

http://www.thestar.co.uk/cmlink/vid...sheffield-city-centre-1-7521010#ixzz3sXseZjKu

 

[Alyce]

Yes so here's my thoughts...Obviously the police at this moment in time feel there is enough evidence to arrest this person "on suspicion" of rape.. so what could have led the police to this conclusion

A. Cctv evidence of the rape occurring - would be pretty inconclusive I would have thought and I'm pretty sure a charge would have been bought by now if it was that clear cut

B. The PM flagged up some evidence of a sexual nature -normally flagged up by bruising, tearing etc but this isn't 100% conclusive of rape. Some people bruise easily, some people like their sexual encounters to be a bit rough and ready

C. PM flagged up recent sexual activity with DNA match to man (non violent I. E no bruising etc). Police able to view CCTV can see that Caroline is in no fit state to give consent to sex

D. DNA found on caroline suggests sexual activity. Dna matches person known to police for sexual crimes thus consulsion sex was non consensual and rape

Unless the police have the rape on CCTV then I can't see how they can 100% say the sex was non consensual

What are people's thoughts?

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EITHER
C - A rape charge has been made because Caroline was considered to be too drunk to consent - plus the man not having come forward to volunteer any information/assistance to the police.
To me, that would add to suspicion against him and further support the charge of rape ( possibly also further confirmed due to physical evidence )

OR
D - the person is known to the police , on record for previous sex crimes.