UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #2

[MidsummersDay]

My feeling continues to be that he was in the bin and that the bin weight is just Biffa not wishing to expose their corporate tactics. I believe he managed to escape the lorry at its next stop at Barton Mills from where he walks, wounded for a while ultimately collapsing in the woodland around there. I don't buy in to the forensic testing of the vehicle or the sniffer dogs because he would need to be in contact with the vehicle and not just its contents.

Yet another good theory I could buy into. They would need to test EVERY shredded piece of paper and every box for forensics of him. I would say the result of that being minimal.
Again, that could explain the phone signal route. NOT entirely the forensics, NOT the dog scent at Tescos, NOT the possible sighting at Hollow Road. :/

 

[JamesKing]

The tip location part is fact, AJ Thompson are owned by Ellgia who have a corporate contract with Biffa, Great Blakenham site is opposite the counties only Waste to Energy station that Biffa use.

In in relation to the weighing issue, dry recyclables in particular paper and card have a considerable resale value (£70 per tonne) however they must be baled in to tonne bales to gain this value, Biffa do not have that facility at regional depots or tipping points. Because of the value; Biffa offer a free collection to either a) acquire business or b) subsidise costly corporate contracts such as Greggs. Therefore Biffa collected their own property that day and so did not need to weigh or charge based on weight.

Now there's a point !
What is it that Gregg's throw away 11 kilo's of at the end of the day ?

Waste paper, having a value ...and with so many shops in that area, isn't there another firm "under-cutting" for the collection of "folded flat cardboard boxes" ? Was just watching a van collecting them from a supermarket. He moved two doors up and began collecting the same from another shop.

Although I live in a different country, the UK would be "more up to speed" with these things.

If that is the case, what do Gregg's actually throw away ?
Because, if the waste is "contaminated waste", then it's not classed as "recyclable waste paper". And the Pilgrims Prayer may have just provided the answer.

Is such "contaminated waste paper" hubbed somewhere ? Compacted into a larger container and taken off to Ipswich ?

 

[mumkinton]

Which would tell us only that Corrie was not in the bin lorry.

I dunno. We seem to have become obsessed with the phone and the bin lorry, probably because we have so little other information to work with.

Let me put it this way: IF the phone was in the bin lorry AND the phone was found, what do you think it would tell us that we don't already know?

I think it is fair to say with some confidence that Corrie was not in the paper recycling bin lorry. However, there are other bins in that area and it is a possibility he could have been in one of those. I do not know when collections for these general waste bins are, but Corrie was not reported missing till Monday pm and I am guessing they may well have been emptied before that area was searched. I wonder if it would be possible to arrange a private search of the landfill those bins were emptied into? At least we could eliminate that theory if he is not found there.

I am still with open mind that somehow he did walk out of the area of the bins undetected. The police dog did seemingly trace him to Tesco which would have been on his route home. Anyone know what the CCTV coverage is in that area?

 

[MidsummersDay]

But he didn't have anything in his hand on CCTV2. He had nothing to throw in a bin.

I also don't think there was a prearranged lift, I think the police or family would have said "Corrie was supposed to meet X friend at X time but didn't show up"

All these theories and to be honest they're all very good arguments. With a lot of pondering I could honestly believe any of them. It's only by drilling down into each and examining them minutely (too many variables and contradictory evidence though) that we'll make positive progress.

 

[PilgrimsPrayer]

Forensics has to be discounted because the paper will have already been disposed of, I do not believe he would have made contact with any part of the vehicle.

Sniffer dogs is is odd to me because despite the "scent" being found we have seen zero activity of searches or police information campaigns.

Possible sighting on Hollow Rd is as yet unexplained admittedly.

Yet another good theory I could buy into. They would need to test EVERY shredded piece of paper and every box for forensics of him. I would say the result of that being minimal.
Again, that could explain the phone signal route. NOT entirely the forensics, NOT the dog scent at Tescos, NOT the possible sighting at Hollow Road. :/

 

[MidsummersDay]

Now there's a point !
What is it that Gregg's throw away 11 kilo's of at the end of the day ?

Waste paper, having a value ...and with so many shops in that area, isn't there another firm "under-cutting" for the collection of "folded flat cardboard boxes" ? Was just watching a van collecting them from a supermarket. He moved two doors up and began collecting the same from another shop.

Although I live in a different country, the UK would be "more up to speed" with these things.

If that is the case, what do Gregg's actually throw away ?
Because, if the waste is "contaminated waste", then it's not classed as "recyclable waste paper". And the Pilgrims Prayer may have just provided the answer.

Is such "contaminated waste paper" hubbed somewhere ? Compacted into a larger container and taken off to Ipswich ?

Out of date baked pies (he's already had a massive kebab)?
Boxes from pre baked pies (flat packed and put into the recycle bin)?
Does the card/paper bin ACTUALLY belong to Greggs? I thought they were on the corner opposite Greenwoods?

 

[guruagain]

Now there's a point !
What is it that Gregg's throw away 11 kilo's of at the end of the day ?<snip>

We don't know that the bin belonged to Greggs, Could have been Superdrugs bin? not that whose bin it was matters.

PilgrimsPlace, Sorry. It is obvious you have some idea what you are talking about but why would the Police give a definative figure for the weight of the bin if it was not weighed. I know the figures that have been bandied about have changed (mainly due to chinese whispers) but the initial figure was "under 15kgs" and that that proved he was not in the bin and forensics proved that he was not in the lorry. We don't even know what refuse company was involved.

 

[PilgrimsPrayer]

Not been confirmed that collection is daily, Andy hypothetically yes, there are lots of firms who will actually pay Greggs to collect it (pro rats of £69 per tonne possibly).

Waste paper per would be considered as general waste, be in a different bin and on a different collection, but still to the same tipping location. Biffa do not backhaul all waste to their disposal sites.

Now there's a point !
What is it that Gregg's throw away 11 kilo's of at the end of the day ?

Waste paper, having a value ...and with so many shops in that area, isn't there another firm "under-cutting" for the collection of "folded flat cardboard boxes" ? Was just watching a van collecting them from a supermarket. He moved two doors up and began collecting the same from another shop.

Although I live in a different country, the UK would be "more up to speed" with these things.

If that is the case, what do Gregg's actually throw away ?
Because, if the waste is "contaminated waste", then it's not classed as "recyclable waste paper". And the Pilgrims Prayer may have just provided the answer.

Is such "contaminated waste paper" hubbed somewhere ? Compacted into a larger container and taken off to Ipswich ?

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I think it is fair to say with some confidence that Corrie was not in the paper recycling bin lorry. However, there are other bins in that area and it is a possibility he could have been in one of those.

AFAIK the whole idea of him being in a bin in the first place was because he was seen in that general area on CCTV and because pings from his phone happened to coincide with the timing of the route of the bin lorry. Therefore, it was argued, he might have been in the bin that was emptied.

This whole idea is starting to sound desperate.

 

[PilgrimsPrayer]

Under 15kg would relate to the aggregated collection weight provided for audit purposes. 11Kg is probably just Biffa being pushed.

My premise is this- there is no requirement for the driver to activate weight monitoring on a fixed recyclables round, simply aggregated weight per bin upon tipping. The bin weight monitoring system has to be activated on EVERY collection for it to be accurate on dry recyclables because it goes on the new vehicle weight minus the pre tip weight.

We don't know that the bin belonged to Greggs, Could have been Superdrugs bin? not that whose bin it was matters.

PilgrimsPlace, Sorry. It is obvious you have some idea what you are talking about but why would the Police give a definative figure for the weight of the bin if it was not weighed. I know the figures that have been bandied about have changed (mainly due to chinese whispers) but the initial figure was "under 15kgs" and that that proved he was not in the bin and forensics proved that he was not in the lorry. We don't even know what refuse company was involved.

 

[MidsummersDay]

...and here's another observation:
Is his shirt tucked into his trousers in the first CCTV?
In the second CCTV footage his shirt appears to be OUT at the FRONT! If you're sitting in a semi recumbent position then your shirt at the back would slide upwards as you ate. If your shirt is out at the front, that suggests to me that you've lifted your arms upwards or stretched upwards. Try touching the ceiling to understand what I mean and observe your shirt/t shirt.

basically what I'm alluding to is his arms may have gone upwards after his kebab to do something; climb, wave, signal someone's?

 

[ChuckieD]

...and here's another observation:
Is his shirt tucked into his trousers in the first CCTV?
In the second CCTV footage his shirt appears to be OUT at the FRONT! If you're sitting in a semi recumbent position then your shirt at the back would slide upwards as you ate. If your shirt is out at the front, that suggests to me that you've lifted your arms upwards or stretched upwards. Try touching the ceiling to understand what I mean and observe your shirt/t shirt.

basically what I'm alluding to is his arms may have gone upwards after his kebab to do something; climb, wave, signal someone's?

Stretched after waking up in a cold doorway?

 

[Amonet]

Example:

Dear Mr Contract Manager at Greggs, today we collected 242Kg of dry recyclables from your 22 sites, your bin weight therefore is 11Kg.

Police- What was your bin weight, Biffa "11Kg".

Weight only matters when it is going to landfill.

But bins of that type are often equipped with an ID chip which is read by the bin lorry each load. Biffa could then take that info and only send the manager at Greggs (for instance) the aggregated info, but that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't weigh by load and then aggregate post-loading.

 

[PilgrimsPrayer]

A good point but as per my previous, the chip reader is set manually by the driver. The bins containing the chips are the general waste bins and 1100L, not the bins which I believe are in the images.

But bins of that type are often equipped with an ID chip which is read by the bin lorry each load. Biffa could then take that info and only send the manager at Greggs (for instance) the aggregated info, but that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't weigh by load and then aggregate post-loading.

 

[JamesKing]

We don't know that the bin belonged to Greggs, Could have been Superdrugs bin? not that whose bin it was matters.

PilgrimsPlace, Sorry. It is obvious you have some idea what you are talking about but why would the Police give a definative figure for the weight of the bin if it was not weighed. I know the figures that have been bandied about have changed (mainly due to chinese whispers) but the initial figure was "under 15kgs" and that that proved he was not in the bin and forensics proved that he was not in the lorry. We don't even know what refuse company was involved.

It matters a huge amount, because that is how waste is defined.
Because waxed cups and contaminated waste paper is not classed as DMR recyclables

Biffa, on there website, define "Dry Mixed Recyclables".

Now I can't imagine Greggs having "two or three" bin collections a day, just to "recycle".
Whereas a collection of "contaminated waste", then that'll go to the incinerator.

 

[hermes&&]

On general waste, on recyclables no.

Do we know which type of bin was collected?

 

[PilgrimsPrayer]

General waste would be on a different collection and would be land filled or incinerated at Great Blakenham, correct. We were however told that the bin collection was dry mixed recyclables were we not? 11KG would be a small general waste collection.

It matters a huge amount, because that is how waste is defined.
Because waxed cups and contaminated waste paper is not classed as DMR recyclables

Biffa, on there website, define "Dry Mixed Recyclables".

Now I can't imagine Greggs having "two or three" bin collections a day, just to "recycle".
Whereas a collection of "contaminated waste", then that'll go to the incinerator.

 

[PilgrimsPrayer]

Do we know which type of bin was collected?

General waste is a much bigger route and Biffa would not be able to collect it at that time of the morning.

 

[JamesKing]

General waste would be on a different collection and would be land filled or incinerated at Great Blakenham, correct. We were however told that the bin collection was dry mixed recyclables were we not? 11KG would be a small general waste collection.

No, we were told it was "waste paper". It wasn't "defined" as anything.... we just assumed.

 

[JamesKing]

If that "waste paper" was collected and added to "more waste paper" when the bin lorry arrived.

And each time "all that" was compacted to make room for more rubbish arriving....

....then there is your "last ping a 4.20am".