UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #20

[Taskforce88]

Yes you are right but the lorry could have been an electric vehicle lol

Well yeah there is that too

 

[Coach]

Earlier tonight I took our two paper recycling household bins side by side. One was about a 1/4 full with only paper and cardboard and the other one was empty. I asked my daughter who is 11yrs old and weighs 39kgs if she would help me carry out an experiment by climbing into the bin. She couldn't wait to get inside and after she climbed into it, I moved the other bin first and then I moved the one with my daughter in it. Needless to say, the bin with my daughter was MUCH harder to move. Corrie weighed how much, about 85kgs? The bin would have felt really heavy to move in comparison to the normal weight of it.

 

[Coach]

Well yeah there is that too

If C had wakened up while the driver was moving the bin, if the driver had earphones in he wouldn't have heard him.

 

[Cherwell]

To recap what we have been told, as far as I recall. There were 3 teens near the Cornhill Shopping Centre who were seen by the bin lorry driver, so presumably they also saw him. Neither the driver nor the teens say they saw Corrie there at that time.

The bin lorry was caught by some cameras, not sure which but possibly some traffic camera at Barton Mills roundabout, and that didn't see anything unusual. None of the cameras, for instance, saw Corrie hanging off the back of the lorry to get a lift.

We were then told that CCTV can see the bin lorry doing another bin pickup from Sainsbury's in Mildenhall, and that everything looked normal.

The Telegraph mentioned the bin lorry being 'stationed' in BSE, but we've heard nothing more than it arrived (latest figures from Nicola, from at least 6 weeks ago, I think) were that the bin lorry arrived in the horseshoe around 4.19am and left about 4 minutes later?

So the use of the word 'stationed' either seems to bee misuse of word, or they're going by the Midsummer timeline (or some other unknown source?) that puts the bin lorry at or near the horseshoe at 4am, and not leaving until about 4.25am.

I hope that helps.

So nothing's been made public of any sighting of the bin lorry actually in the Horseshoe?
Would it have approached and left via Short Brackland, do you think.

 

[Ironside]

Earlier tonight I took our two paper recycling household bins side by side. One was about a 1/4 full with only paper and cardboard and the other one was empty. I asked my daughter who is 11yrs old and weighs 39kgs if she would help me carry out an experiment by climbing into the bin. She couldn't wait to get inside and after she climbed into it, I moved the other bin first and then I moved the one with my daughter in it. Needless to say, the bin with my daughter was MUCH harder to move. Corrie weighed how much, about 85kgs? The bin would have felt really heavy to move in comparison to the normal weight of it.

Metal industrial bins would be different when manoeuvring compared to domestic recycling bins though.

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[Taskforce88]

If C had wakened up while the driver was moving the bin, if the driver had earphones in he wouldn't have heard him.

Probably not. C might not have had any time to react either, bin moved to lorry, picked up, emptied and back down.

As you say the weight would have been noticeable, many times I have went to move a bin that is normally light and I think what the hell is in this, and I have a look, although most are plastic domestic bins.

 

[Taskforce88]

Commercial bins are on 4 wheels, domestic bins have 2, so perhaps the weight would not have been as noticeable as the driver was rolling it along. Maybe he didn't even roll it, he might have reversed right up to it and didn't need to move it.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Question - are the bins numbered / labelled? I just wonder how the driver knows exactly which bin to collect in an area where there are several?

 

[Coach]

Metal industrial bins would be different when manoeuvring compared to domestic recycling bins though.

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That's right, the metal would have been different but did they not say the bin had averaged around 11kgs in the previous weeks? That made me wonder if the driver was not only new to the route but possibly new to the actual job in which case he wouldn't be familiar with what is considered a normal weight for the bin.

 

[Tulip23]

Great post Stanley, but just a couple of clarifications.

Corrie isn't a full-time medic in the RAF; he's an RAF Regiment Gunner, whete the most basic role is airfield defence. The medic bit is just an extra little job he's got within his section; he may not have even volunteered for it, he may have been given that duty.

Also, the RAF is usually supportive of airmen in court for driving offences, even drink driving, though it's on a case-by-case basis. An otherwise good disciplinary record, first offence (?), needs to drive for work; that wouldn't be dismissal. Extra guard duties probably!

I have to disagree with some of the points here. I'm absolutely not being picky or pedantic. Possibly my experience is more recent?

Medics within the RAF regiment don't do that role as an extra little job at all. They are highly trained in combat medicine and are the first line guys in combat situations and more crucially in recent years, in patrolling injuries. These guys will be on their medic role first and foremost when in theatre. It's also a choice to take this role on and isn't given to anyone.

In previous years it is true that all of the services would wade In and get involved in driving offence cases and cite the need to drive for the forces as a way to avoiding driving bans etc. This is absolutely not the case anymore and hasn't been for some time. It will still be used as a defence but it receives absolutely no backing from the MOD anymore. Saying the RAF is supportive of airmen in court for driving offences is just not true.

As I said I'm not being critical or anything else, just factual to the best of my knowledge. We are all trying to make our minds up based on what may or may not be factual. I base my facts on being an MOD employee and they are correct to the best of my knowledge.

JMO


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[Taskforce88]

Question - are the bins numbered / labelled? I just wonder how the driver knows exactly which bin to collect in an area where there are several?

Biffa bins are usually red with labels on them (general waste, recycling etc), council bins will be other colours, depending on the council usually.

 

[Coach]

Probably not. C might not have had any time to react either, bin moved to lorry, picked up, emptied and back down.

As you say the weight would have been noticeable, many times I have went to move a bin that is normally light and I think what the hell is in this, and I have a look, although most are plastic domestic bins.

That's right, he would not have had time to react if he was sleeping. The lorry could have reversed right up and the bin might not have needed moving much at all. Do we know if there has been any official statement to confirm the lorry was actually in the HS for 30mins other than the article in paper today?

 

[Taskforce88]

There really isn't much room in the smaller commercial bins for a fully grown man however, it would have been an uncomfortable sleep.

 

[suzyjackson]

Question - are the bins numbered / labelled? I just wonder how the driver knows exactly which bin to collect in an area where there are several?

All commercial bins I see around are different colours for different companies and have big logos on. I don't know if it's universal but I'd guess the drivers would collect their own. I guess there must also be something to distinguish general from recycling bins.

 

[Amonet]

So nothing's been made public of any sighting of the bin lorry actually in the Horseshoe?
Would it have approached and left via Short Brackland, do you think.

Unless I'm screwing up again, I think Short Brackland is the only road access to the horseshoe, with other ways being pedestrianized?

Mind you, having said that, in our local market town which is probably smaller than BSE, on market day vehicles do go along the pedestrianised streets. No, I lie, they do do that on market day, but there is a low amount of traffic down those streets in our town for access vehicles. Police, etc, use the streets on a by-need basis, and when these vehicles go down these streets pedestrians are expected to jump out of the way. Dimbo here usually walks in a world of her own and is often oblivious until one nearly runs her over. I don't think a bin lorry would count as an access vehicle and would probably use Short Brackland.

 

[Taskforce88]

Unless I'm screwing up again, I think Short Brackland is the only road access to the horseshoe, with other ways being pedestrianized?

Would that stop a bin lorry taking that route? I know a few pedestrianized areas that are still open to council vehicles, road sweepers etc, of course it might not apply to a private biffa lorry.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Question - are the bins numbered / labelled? I just wonder how the driver knows exactly which bin to collect in an area where there are several?

The obvious way would be via RFID tags but there hasn't been mention of these being used at all? It would confirm which bin was picked up that night.

 

[Amonet]

Earlier tonight I took our two paper recycling household bins side by side. One was about a 1/4 full with only paper and cardboard and the other one was empty. I asked my daughter who is 11yrs old and weighs 39kgs if she would help me carry out an experiment by climbing into the bin. She couldn't wait to get inside and after she climbed into it, I moved the other bin first and then I moved the one with my daughter in it. Needless to say, the bin with my daughter was MUCH harder to move. Corrie weighed how much, about 85kgs? The bin would have felt really heavy to move in comparison to the normal weight of it.

I love reading about Websleuthers experiments! That's great.

Wish you'd taken video!

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Would that stop a bin lorry taking that route? I know a few pedestrianized areas that are still open to council vehicles, road sweepers etc, of course it might not apply to a private biffa lorry.

This is correct I think but it has always been said the bin lorry came up Short Brackland. If it did go down the pedestrian path to Looms Lane and then Northgate Street it would have been captured on the CSC camera as all the witnesses were.

 

[Coach]

Unless I'm screwing up again, I think Short Brackland is the only road access to the horseshoe, with other ways being pedestrianized?

Mind you, having said that, in our local market town which is probably smaller than BSE, on market day vehicles do go along the pedestrianised streets. No, I lie, they do do that on market day, but there is a low amount of traffic down those streets in our town for access vehicles. Police, etc, use the streets on a by-need basis, and when these vehicles go down these streets pedestrians are expected to jump out of the way. Dimbo here usually walks in a world of her own and is often oblivious until one nearly runs her over. I don't think a bin lorry would count as an access vehicle and would probably use Short Brackland.

There are two ways to get to the HS in a vehicle in a lorry, by Short Brackland or by Brentgovel Street (pedestrians but lorries can access for loading/unloading). Looking at the street view on google maps, if the lorry came down Short Brackland he would have had to turn left head first into Brentgovel and reverse back to the bins. If he drove up Brentgovel he would have turned right into Short Brackland head first and reversed back to the bins from there. Brentgovel is narrower than Short Brackland. Were there any cars parked in the HS when the lorry got there? On Google maps there are four cars, if there had been cars there that morning the lorry driver would have had to negotiate a very cautious reverse manoeuvre and it would still have been quite dark at that time as well.