GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #9

[LozDa]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/incoming/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12617279

[FONT=&quot]11:17[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]'Not a shred of evidence' about increasing drug doses - defence[/h]“What the prosecution said in the opening to you was that Stewart had killed Helen after secretly administered a sleeping drug to Helen in increasing amounts. “This was repeated several times.
“The trouble is, that’s not the evidence. It can’t be said Helen was taking Zopiclone in increasing amounts, or increasing concentrations.
“There’s not a shred of evidence from the toxicologist Dr Piper of the pathologist Dr Cary that Helen had been given increasing amounts of this drug at all.
“Drug quantities in the hair have to be taken cautiously. You cannot relate these to the quantities ingested. “That very important point in the prosecution’s case, we say, also falls away.”
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[Tortoise]

Russell Flint's strategy seems to be to point out all the flaws in the execution of Helen's murder and disposal and say "IS wouldn't be so stupid as to do it this way".

HE IS AND HE DID!

Send the bar steward down.

ditto ditto ditto..precisement

 

[LozDa]

Muddying waters. That's literally all he's been trying to do the whole time.

I take great pleasure in the fact that the only reason he's having to resort to these tactics is because he knows the defence isn't strong enough as it is.

 

[LozDa]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/incoming/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12617279

[FONT=&quot]11:19[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]Nothing to say how Helen died[/h]“If you look at the pattern of activity on the day Helen allegedly died, her on the internet etc, there’s nothing to say Helen was sedated during the morning. “And if she wasn’t sedated at that time, what does that do to another one of the prosecution’s guesses?
“The bold and confident words in the prosecution opening was that Stewart killed Helen, probably by suffocation, while she was sedated. “But where’s the evidence to say this? There’s nothing to say how she died.”
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[LozDa]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/incoming/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12617279

[FONT=&amp]11:19[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Nothing to say how Helen died

“If you look at the pattern of activity on the day Helen allegedly died, her on the internet etc, there’s nothing to say Helen was sedated during the morning. “And if she wasn’t sedated at that time, what does that do to another one of the prosecution’s guesses?
“The bold and confident words in the prosecution opening was that Stewart killed Helen, probably by suffocation, while she was sedated. “But where’s the evidence to say this? There’s nothing to say how she died.”
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Excepting the bit where IS acted it out for everyone.

 

[Tortoise]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/incoming/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12617279

[FONT=&amp]11:07[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]No evidence that Helen was 'intoxicated' by medication at time of death

“Just because Helen’s body was in the cess pit, it doesn’t mean Helen was poisoned or intoxicated with a prescription sleeping drug at the time she died. “There’s no evidence at all that at the time she died, she was intoxicated by any sleeping drug.
“The Crown cannot know this, Dr Piper cannot know this. “All that can be said is that Helen had ingested Zopiclone at some time, on more than one occasion, over the previous months before her death.
“Just because there is Zopiclone traces in her hair, it doesn’t mean you or anybody could make the leap to the conclusion the Zopiclone she had taken had been administered to her surreptitiously, as opposed to her having willingly taken a tablet, and drunk a glass of wine.
“Toxicology results cannot tell whether Helen had taken this voluntarily, knowingly, or whether it had somehow been secretly administered to her.”
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Ah, he's helping the prosecution now with his dumb statements.

 

[LozDa]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/incoming/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12617279

[FONT=&quot]11:21[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]Stewart could not have given Helen the drug when he was in hospital[/h]“It wasn’t a massive dose of Zopiclone, Dr Piper said the drug had been taken by Helen more than once. “Stewart told you himself Helen took that more than once. He could not have given her any Zopiclone during the time he was in hospital on March 18-25.
“Yet it was then during that period, among other times, that Helen was reporting to others that she was feeling so tired. “How is he meant to have administered this drug? It is full of bulking powder.
“It has a filthy bitter taste, and an aftertaste. Did he crush it up, sprinkle it over her scrambled eggs, slip it to her pretending it was paracetamol?
“Did he stir one in her weak PG powder tea that she liked? After his operation, if there was food to be prepared Helen cooked it.”
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[LozDa]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/incoming/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12617279

[FONT=&quot]11:23[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]Helen already complaining of feeling tired[/h]“If Helen had been drugged with Zopiclone, why was she so tired already before the date it was prescribed? “How does that fit with the prosecution’s theory?
Helen’s mother knew as long back as 2012 Helen was complaining of being very tired and having a dizzy spell. “Leaving Boris on the beach was January, early February 2016 so around the Zopiclone time.
“She complained of feeling dizzy in November 2015, as a result she got new glasses. That was pre-Zopiclone as well.”
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[LozDa]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/incoming/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12617279

[FONT=&quot]11:25[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]Hospital stay 'perfect alibi'[/h]Helen had been complaining of the menopause since 2012. She complained to her friend in October 2015 that she was very tired. “She couldn’t see or feel her hands at the computer when she was recently widowed. “Helen feeling tired was not a new thing.
And if she was tired while Helen was in hospital, Stewart had the perfect alibi. “It couldn’t have been him giving Helen Zopiclone. “Do you really think Stewart immediately slipped the drug to Helen three days after he got it, before she went to her check up?”
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[cottonweaver]

One in ten( ?) get the bitter AFTER taste with Zop., so said Piper.
It worries me that this won't sink in with the jury as we still see it on here too

 

[Alyce]

anyone got the IS testimony to hand where he sets up N& Joe to have knowledge of the cess pit?

Here it is



Stewart: “The next time I saw Joe was in February/March on the second visit.
“Helen and I checked the cess pit levels just after Christmas.
“We then went down a bit later because there was a horrible smell coming out of the drains.
“We suspected it was blocked, so we looked in the garage.
“We opened up the cess pit and were looking down, the level was fine and there didn’t seem to be a blockage.
“We said we’d see if it clears.”

Stewart: “While we were doing that Joe and another man came round the side of the house and approached us.
“Joe introduced him as a friend called Nick, that was it.
“Nick was about 56, he was slightly taller than me, he had black hair, he was a big man, he had tattoos down his neck.
“He was white. Nick introduced himself and shook hands with us.
“He had an accent.”

Stewart: “I was there with Helen with the cess pit open. Joe and Nick didn’t say why they were there, either we didn’t answer the door or they’d seen us from the road.
“Joe said he wanted another word with Helen if that was OK.
“Helen and I went down to put the lid to the cess pit back, but Nick took over and did it for us.
“Helen said to Joe ‘shall we go now?’ Joe said to Nick he would see him back at the car, Nick said he was going off to get some bags.
“Joe went into the house with Helen and I was left in the garage on my own.”

 

[LozDa]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/incoming/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12617279

[FONT=&quot]11:27[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]Secret drugging 'complete fallacy' - court told[/h]“What were the results of this well woman assessment that Helen went to - did this shed any light on the complete fallacy that Helen was secretly being drugged with Zopiclone obtained by the defendant on January 25?
The assessment was conducted on January 28 - Helen said she was suffering hot flushes, disturbed sleep. She was dealing with signs of the menopause, and she had high blood pressure.
“She was also using beta blockers to help her with her anxiety. “She’d also been using hormones to help her with the menopause on and off since 2012.”
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[DollyDiamond]

Muddying waters. That's literally all he's been trying to do the whole time.

I take great pleasure in the fact that the only reason he's having to resort to these tactics is because he knows the defence isn't strong enough as it is.

Exactly there are far too many damning, inconvenient facts for RF to get round. He's drowning, and he knows it.

But how can RF raise an entirely new theory about how Helen died and ended up in the cesspit in his summing up?! Either she was murdered by Nick and Joe and they put her there (ridiculous) or as he now suggests, Helen accidentally killed herself and IS put her in the cesspit (equally unlikely). Which is it - it plainly cannot be both! Surely this new theory is inadmissible anyway - it has never been mentioned before!

 

[Tortoise]

One in ten( ?) get the bitter AFTER taste with Zop., so said Piper.
It worries me that this won't sink in with the jury as we still see it on here too

I am not worried in the slightest cotton. This is completely and utterly laughable.

 

[LozDa]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/incoming/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12617279

[FONT=&quot]11:29[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]Helen could have taken pills to get some sleep[/h]“Why could she not have taken these sleeping pills herself? “With her disturbed sleep pattern she reported on January 28, why could she not have decided to take a Zopiclone tablet herself over whatever period.
“She was frantic with worry when Stewart was in hospital. She and he were both stressed, almost beyond measure, when his surgery was cancelled not once, but twice, in the ward, ready to go in the operating theatre.
“Helen was at home alone, without Stewart, for the first time in ages. Might she not have thought ‘I need some sleep, I’m going to take one of these’?
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[cottonweaver]

“She complained of feeling dizzy in November 2015, as a result she got new glasses. That was pre-Zopiclone as well.”

strictly speaking, no!
Toxicology said it was found in lesser quantities throughout all 4 hair samples , total 30+cm of hair, est . at 1cm growth rate per month. ( Sorry can't find link anymore, so this is IIRC)

 

[LozDa]

Worrying tweet I've just seen:

"Don't believe all this Nick+Joe stuff. She was murdered, yes, but not by Stewart. Think he is covering up for someone he knows."

 

[LouP1209]

One in ten( ?) get the bitter AFTER taste with Zop., so said Piper.
It worries me that this won't sink in with the jury as we still see it on here too

I've been thinking that too,

 

[Tortoise]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/incoming/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12617279

[FONT=&amp]11:27[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Secret drugging 'complete fallacy' - court told

“What were the results of this well woman assessment that Helen went to - did this shed any light on the complete fallacy that Helen was secretly being drugged with Zopiclone obtained by the defendant on January 25?
The assessment was conducted on January 28 - Helen said she was suffering hot flushes, disturbed sleep. She was dealing with signs of the menopause, and she had high blood pressure.
“She was also using beta blockers to help her with her anxiety. “She’d also been using hormones to help her with the menopause on and off since 2012.”
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Mr R F

You are pointing out very nicely for the police how IS obtained a prescription in 2010 straight after Diane's death, never took them (WHY?) and saved them up for whomever he would prey on, because it had been so easy to get away with it the last time.

 

[LozDa]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/incoming/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12617279

[FONT=&quot]11:31[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][h=3]One packet of pills not enough[/h]“If you’re intent on killing someone with a sleeping pill, would one packet, 28 tablets, be sufficient? “Would one packet of the safest and mildest sleeping pills be sufficient for a long term plan? No.
“Why not go back, get more than one packet, so that he could up the dose? “One packet meant the tablets would all have run out on February 22, yet he was meant to have poisoned her on April 11.
“Why on earth, if smothering was the plan, would you bother with sleeping pills at all? “Why not wait until lying in bed together, and that night she fell asleep completely naturally, and then smother her with a pillow? “You don’t need to drug her.”
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