GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #10

[Lynn R]

I know it seems to be a done deal, but I am REALLY shocked this guy has been charged. I know its a bit cliche but he really doesn't seem the type! But when I think like that I remind myself of this quote:

'What a wee little part of a person's life are his acts and his words! His real life is led in his head, and is known to none but himself.'

There seems to be a strong sexual motive here (saliva found in intimate areas and strangulation as the method of the killing). If he is guilty surely he must be some kind of sexual deviant or have some amount of pent up rage inside him to do something like this.

One point however - how do we know the Sun's story about the 'sobbing girl' is true? The same day I read in another paper it was the girlfriend who called? Why are we choosing to believe one story over another? I assume the police have revealed none of these details.

 

[Nausicaa]

Colombo's very plausible account doesn't really solve the big question raised by Bees. Suppose the Saturday flight had not been cancelled, what would have happened to the car he had borrowed without permission ? You can't just leave someone else's car at an airport for a couple of weeks, especially if you had no right to borrow it in the first place. The only car you can decently leave at an airport is your own - and doing so is quite expensive!
Plainly anyone who accompanied him on the Saturday journey to the airport with a view to bringing back the car afterwards is an accessory if the body was dumped on the same journey.
I also wonder why Colombo thinks that the police think that the murder took place in JY's flat rather than VT's ?

All hypothesising about hypotheses, of course.

 

[bees]

One thing is certain - VT doesn't have a convincing alibi about being anything other than alone at his flat on the evening of 17th December. If he did, he couldn't have been charged. That doesn't make him guilty of course but the lack of an alibi isn't helpful to his case. I presume CJ was in the same position - no alibi for that evening after about 9pm.

 

[Curious Alice]

Check out the Daily Mail article I linked to earlier it seems TM is considered very much part of the family

A slightly different stance than that of TM's father, to whom this quote was attributed

Mr Morson said: "He is a boy and she is a girl and they are friendly with each other. He is absolutely fine in every way that I'm aware of.

although this was in the Sun, so make of that what you will !

 

[Chester]

I know it seems to be a done deal, but I am REALLY shocked this guy has been charged. I know its a bit cliche but he really doesn't seem the type! But when I think like that I remind myself of this quote:

'What a wee little part of a person's life are his acts and his words! His real life is led in his head, and is known to none but himself.'

There seems to be a strong sexual motive here (saliva found in intimate areas and strangulation as the method of the killing). If he is guilty surely he must be some kind of sexual deviant or have some amount of pent up rage inside him to do something like this.

One point however - how do we know the Sun's story about the 'sobbing girl' is true? The same day I read in another paper it was the girlfriend who called? Why are we choosing to believe one story over another? I assume the police have revealed none of these details.

There is nothing to indicate rage played a part in this.

VT's sister has said that it was not TM and that she believes he did not do it. That's good enough for me.

The papers were just getting bored and so decided to add 2 and 2 and get 52 like they have all the way through the investigation, that's where the link to TM gave from.

 

[Curious Alice]

One thing is certain - VT doesn't have a convincing alibi about being anything other than alone at his flat on the evening of 17th December. If he did, he couldn't have been charged. That doesn't make him guilty of course but the lack of an alibi isn't helpful to his case. I presume CJ was in the same position - no alibi for that evening after about 9pm.

Certainly raises doubt, but there must be firmer evidence in order to charge a suspect. Do LE have to discuss with CPS prior to a formal charge being made ? Anyone know ? I sincerely hope that the LE have not jumped the gun on this, there will be an outcry if their case is flimsy.

As I've said before, I will at this stage put my trust in the A&S police and conclude that they have a package of evidence (including DNA) which consists of several irrefutable facts and proof.

 

[aneurin]

I didn't know the Bridge Valley Road was closed so thanks for that. I still don't see Clifton Bridge as the most straightforward route because it makes more sense just to drive down to the Avon bridge but it's debatable I suppose.

Well if you crossed the suspension bridge and turned left on the A369 it would bring you down to Brunel Way (?) which is where the the Avon Bridge route would take you anyway. Given that Bridge Valley Road is closed you could cut down the hill through Hotwells on to the A4 and access the Avon Bridge that way, but it involves negotiating some narrow side streets and a steep hill and a lot of people don't like that sort of thing. The point being that option A would be just as acceptable as option B.

Or you could (after you crossed the suspension bridge) turn right on the A369 and then left down Beggar Bush Lane through Failand and drop down to the A38. Taking that route you'd cut out a number of traffic lights, junctions etc.

Of course, if you did cross the Clifton Suspension Bridge at any time enroute to Lulsgate airport you could always say that you hadn't gone through Failand when in fact you had. I'm not sure that there'd be any way of proving it one way or another.

It will be interesting to find out the time-line given by VT and TM for that weekend. Is that likely to come out before a trial?

I would expect not.

 

[Curious Alice]

You can't just leave someone else's car at an airport for a couple of weeks, especially if you had no right to borrow it in the first place. The only car you can decently leave at an airport is your own - and doing so is quite expensive!

Last time I left my car at Bristol Airport (4 days) the cost was around £90 ish. We only chose this option because there were 5 of us with luggage.Travelling alone I would use a shuttle bus from Temple Meads or arrange for a friend to give me a lift, or indeed book a cab.

 

[Lynn R]

One thing is certain - VT doesn't have a convincing alibi about being anything other than alone at his flat on the evening of 17th December. If he did, he couldn't have been charged. That doesn't make him guilty of course but the lack of an alibi isn't helpful to his case. I presume CJ was in the same position - no alibi for that evening after about 9pm.

It does make you wonder what sort of evidence they do have. I was convinced they had at least something other than a gut feeling, lack of an alibi and a funny haircut to have arrested CJ and get 2 extensions from court to hold him further. It seemed not.

I also read that the DNA on JY's body was not of good enough quality to confirm a suspect - only to rule them out. Do we know if this is true? If so then the police must surely have something else fairly substantial?

I think this case will get weirder still - truth is stranger than fiction.

 

[Curious Alice]

http://www.taxismalmesburytaxis.co....5d9fc9ecab27&gclid=CKiKyI7Z0qYCFUENfAodkFvoMw

£50 each way.

It has been speculated that it was her works Christmas party so perhaps they would pick up the bill for a hotel (or taxis).

Good point, something we have done for staff parties.

 

[aneurin]

Do LE have to discuss with CPS prior to a formal charge being made ?

Yes. We now have what they call 'Statutory Charging'.

"CPS prosecutors are now selecting the charge in all but the most minor cases and building strong cases from the start"

See http://www.cps.gov.uk/about/charging.html

 

[Curious Alice]

Interesting that VT previously told reporters he was away on the night JY went missing. He could be referring to the 19th - the night she was reported missing. This would then be true as he'd left the country. I can't see any reports of him saying he was away on the Friday night, the 17th and according to CJ, he was there early evening.

Yes, and to this day none of us know for sure when she went missing. It can be any time between approx 9pm on the 17th (evidence seems to point to this, but unsure if this was clear when VT was interviewed) to shortly before GR arrived home. A slip up from VT or just a clumsy use of words ?

 

[Dr Talent]

These minor details provide context regarding VT's state of mind and character:

"In court [VT] wore a bright red jumper, black trousers and glasses. He spoke only to confirm his name and to give his address on Canynge Road - the flat adjoining [JY's]. A court clerk, reading the charge, said: "It is alleged that between the 16th and 26th December last year that you did murder [JY]."

[VT] looked directly at the magistrates throughout the hearing and pressed his ear through a gap in the dock's glass as he strained to hear prosecutor Ann Reddrop."


What would psychologists say about a man who wore a red jumper to court?

This man looked directly at the Magistrates - he didn't bow his head and avoid eye contact. An innocent man would look the magistrates directly in the eye, but so might someone who was very cold hearted and ruthless.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23916598-joanna-yeates-murder-suspect-due-in-court.do

 

[Lynn R]

There is nothing to indicate rage played a part in this.

VT's sister has said that it was not TM and that she believes he did not do it. That's good enough for me.

The papers were just getting bored and so decided to add 2 and 2 and get 52 like they have all the way through the investigation, that's where the link to TM gave from.

I wouldn't believe that VT said that 100% unless I saw/heard her saying it with my own eyes/ears! Was it only the Sun who printed that story?

I am not saying there was any indication of rage as in a fight, - but what sort of person strangles someone? That comes from deep down inside. It can be an expression of very, very strong emotion.

 

[Trio]

Surely if the police spotted a car in which they suspected was the killer on their way to dispose of Jo's body, they are certainly not going to contact the owner and right away eliminate him. They would bring the owner in for questioning or could even arrest him, especially if he were in any way connected to the victim.

It would be imperative to seize that car immediately this was discovered, to preserve any forensic evidence that otherwise may be lost. Other things may then come to light during the questioning that may cast some doubt on the guilt of the owner. Maybe as to whether he was the driver, especially if he claimed that he innocently lent his car to someone.

Just speculation, if the Daily Mail report can be believed.

Indeed.
You are spot on about the Forensic evidence.

 

[Chester]

I wouldn't believe that VT said that 100% unless I saw/heard her saying it with my own eyes/ears! Was it only the Sun who printed that story?

I am not saying there was any indication of rage as in a fight, - but what sort of person strangles someone? That comes from deep down inside. It can be an expression of very, very strong emotion.

It was VT's sister, it was report as a direct quote in the Daily Mail amongst other papers. I can think of no reason why a paper would attribute a direct quote to someone that they had made up, unless they really wanted to pay out large amounts of money in compensation.

 

[Lynn R]

These minor details provide context regarding VT's state of mind and character:

"In court [VT] wore a bright red jumper, black trousers and glasses. He spoke only to confirm his name and to give his address on Canynge Road - the flat adjoining [JY's]. A court clerk, reading the charge, said: "It is alleged that between the 16th and 26th December last year that you did murder [JY]."

[VT] looked directly at the magistrates throughout the hearing and pressed his ear through a gap in the dock's glass as he strained to hear prosecutor Ann Reddrop."


What would psychologists say about a man who wore a red jumper to court?

This man looked directly at the Magistrates - he didn't bow his head and avoid eye contact. An innocent man would look the magistrates directly in the eye, but so might someone who was very cold hearted and ruthless.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23916598-joanna-yeates-murder-suspect-due-in-court.do

From what we have read about him as described by his friends and family he wasn't cold-hearted and ruthless.

I did wonder about the red jumper! But he's European AND a bloke. I wouldn't read too much into it??

 

[bees]

Surely if the police spotted a car in which they suspected was the killer on their way to dispose of Jo's body, they are certainly not going to contact the owner and right away eliminate him. They would bring the owner in for questioning or could even arrest him, especially if he were in any way connected to the victim.

It would be imperative to seize that car immediately this was discovered, to preserve any forensic evidence that otherwise may be lost. Other things may then come to light during the questioning that may cast some doubt on the guilt of the owner. Maybe as to whether he was the driver, especially if he claimed that he innocently lent his car to someone.

Just speculation, if the Daily Mail report can be believed.

Maybe they already have that car. Have they returned any of the 3 they took from Canynge Rd? The car they spotted going over the bridge must have rung some bells for them - eg belonged to a neighbour or someone connected to a neighbour.

 

[Sweep the cat]

The first part of your post sounds like the back cover of a murder mystery novel.

I think we are thinking along the same line here Chester.

I do wonder is this is an illicit sex game gone wrong. Consider if VT had a key to her flat in case she ever got locked out. It would account for her keys etc being in her bag, she would know that she could get back indoors again. VT could have seen her arrive home, asked her in for a drink, she dumped her bag etc indoors and took the pizza for supper between them.

It all went horribly wrong along the way, he panicked and tried to distance himself from the whole affair by dumping the body. How would he explain his actions to the police. A dead body and a situation that was unexplainable to his gf and her bf.

He looks very cool and calm in court and my bet is that he has a strong story to be told.

Sorry if this causes any offence but these things do happen.

 

[MMENJBRIT]

One Person with Access to every Flat at Cannynge Rd:

I cannot help think that a myriad of possible scenarios could exist regarding this murder case.

If the owner of the apartment block had access to enter all apartments, couldn't that person also have access to spare sets of car keys, therefore cars and who knows what?