GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #12

[columbosstogey]

Hi again, Deckard.

One who was caught red-handed; completely unawares doing something lewd and lascivious; his was a shock reaction - silenced her testimony forever. Why? Far too much to lose, VT is from a wealthy family; exceptionally intelligent - known around the world through his company ... was "in love" with TM ... he suffered an acute Fear of Loss.

I still think he was stalking Jo. For how long and exactly how ... is like asking how long's a piece of string ... but my hinky-meter tells me he was watching her from his flat - and Jo unwittingly discovered his little operation.

Peeping Toms get their rocks off on this stuff ---> sexual motivation comes into play.

All my humble opinion ... I can't see this as a random stranger thing. Not in a zillion years. However - we may all be wrong. Only the trial will indicate which direction we should have taken...

ha ha pass the porta potty .... peeping toms very rarely murder anyone......

Also when did he get time to stalk her, he wasnt even in the country for six weeks and was in the USA, so a total sum of about 2 weeks.....

I am sure he had much more things to do then stalk Joanna, and not forgetting as well one worked in Bath and the other in Bristol, so they wouldnt even have bumped into each other in a local pub........

No I dont get this peeping tom, or sexual advance gone wrong......

No traces. IF someone advanced sexually at me I would push them off and say oi you, leave it out......in this day and age it isnt worth killing someone over a fumble that wasnt really wanted.

No whoever killed her, sadly did it very quickly and cleanly.....they knew what they were doing. There is a hold called the sleeper hold that can render someone unconscious in 3 seconds.........

I think whoever killed this poor girl has done it before.

Personally I think she was abducted and CJ did see something or someone at the time, but sadly it got spoilt because chinese whispers and neighbours exaggerated what he had said.....

You see I cant see this being VT not in a zillion years, but I can see someone following her home and that doesnt mean a stranger either.

 

[Suspicious Minds]

Also, if it turns out it was VT, he had reason to think J's flat would be empty for sometime that evening. He had heard from CJ that GR had gone to Sheffield (allegedly we are told he knew that from CJ) and his gf TM was at her firms xmas party. His Company had worked on projects with Jo's Co apparently, he may have known she was out drinking with her colleagues and thought she would be home far later than around 8-30ish. He may as has been said before managed to get into her flat to 'rig something up' or 'de-rig'
what he'd put up before they moved into the flat.

If he was given a key for whatever reason just the one time while it remained empty, he could have got an extra one cut. Think this has been covered before aswell.

 

[Suspicious Minds]

Have to say though have never believed the Peeping Tom/Voyuer theory just like everyone else I am struggling as to how anybody could do this and for what motive?
So considering all scenarios.

 

[Deckard]

You see I cant see this being VT not in a zillion years, but I can see someone following her home and that doesnt mean a stranger either.

There is a flip side to this coin, that VT had a lot to lose.

 

[columbosstogey]

If it turns out that VT was a peeping tom, and there was a peep hole then that peep hole could have been there a while. He could have been spying on the previous tenant(s) of Jo's flat too for all we know.

And I agree that it wouldn't take two weeks - if he's that way inclined I'd imagine he'd be likely to peep through as soon as anyone new moved in next door. If he was intent on creating a spy hole between the two flats the best time to create it would surely be whilst the other place was vacant ie before Jo (or even the previous tenant) moved in.

If there was such a peep hole I still reckon it would have been giving a view of Jo's bedroom rather than the bathroom.

I dont get this peeping tom malarky, not VT anyway....

Spy holes come on sounds like something out of the Young Ones lol.

Why on earth would he need to spy on her through a peep hole?

When a house is divided into flats the builder has to work within strict building regulations and guidelines AND fire codes.....the wall between the flats would have be fire guarded so would be thicker then just a piece of wood or ply wood, and anyway if someone had put a hole in my wall I would have seen it..........well you would wouldnt you?

My friend had some work done in her modern bungalow and the builder went through a connecting wall with a very large drill and you could see the damage on the other side the plaster which was put over the plaster board cracked off.....

IF VT did kill Joanna then I think there is more to the story...

I am just not convinced that this guy did it.

I am more convinced that someone followed her ... someone she knew and welcomed into her flat....

there is more likely a stalker from her work, or the rowing club then her next door neighbour who was hardly there anyway. IMHO of course.

 

[columbosstogey]

There is a flip side to this coin, that VT had a lot to lose.

Well of course I get that, BUT why?

 

[columbosstogey]

Okay, but I'm sure I recall the ppl that found the body saying they do that walk daily and would have discovered it before had it been there .... maybe this is another case of chinese whispers by media and forums though!

A friend of mine has walked this lane since and taken photos, there is no way you could have missed that body......even Martin Brunt and the detective who walked the same route said the same thing.

 

[columbosstogey]

Also, if it turns out it was VT, he had reason to think J's flat would be empty for sometime that evening. He had heard from CJ that GR had gone to Sheffield (allegedly we are told he knew that from CJ) and his gf TM was at her firms xmas party. His Company had worked on projects with Jo's Co apparently, he may have known she was out drinking with her colleagues and thought she would be home far later than around 8-30ish. He may as has been said before managed to get into her flat to 'rig something up' or 'de-rig'
what he'd put up before they moved into the flat.

If he was given a key for whatever reason just the one time while it remained empty, he could have got an extra one cut. Think this has been covered before aswell.

HAD HE heard that Greg was away we only have CJs word for that....as Judge Judy would say its just HEARSAY......

 

[Suspicious Minds]

A friend of mine has walked this lane since and taken photos, there is no way you could have missed that body......even Martin Brunt and the detective who walked the same route said the same thing.

Okay so then we can be as certain as is possible that the body was deposited very late xmas eve or early hours xmas day. So if she was killed on 17th the body had to be stored somewhere prior to being found??

 

[Deckard]

Well of course I get that, BUT why?

Self preservation.

If VT ends up on the Sex Offenders Register his job, relationship with TM and status within the family circle are pretty badly compromised.

Were there any reports of a laptop being taken from Aberdeen Rd when the arrest news broke?

 

[Suspicious Minds]

HAD HE heard that Greg was away we only have CJs word for that....as Judge Judy would say its just HEARSAY......

Thats why I put (allegedly) as it was reported that CJ had seen VT around 7pm on the evening of the 17th and told him about helping GR to start his car for his journey to Sheffield. I read it in a newspaper, so it may not be true!

 

[veggiefan]

Much more likely that he would entrust it to PS, a "mechanically minded" neighbour and friend of many years standing.

Please can yo tell me where it said that not in in a newspaper I take it

You know he is a friend of many years standing do you.

Well, various websites indicate that CJ and PS have worked together in the locality on various projects over the years (Neighbourhood Watch and the Canynge Road Campaign Group) as well as being neighbours.

If you need more definitive proof, and doubt newspaper reports, then I think the only way to be certain would be to ask one of them!

 

[aneurin]

HAD HE heard that Greg was away we only have CJs word for that....as Judge Judy would say its just HEARSAY......

If CJ is prepared to testify that he told VT on the evening of the 17th December of the problems GR suffered in starting his car earlier that day, and that GR was away in Sheffield for the weekend, then that is not hearsay, it is evidence, because CJ is speaking from direct experience and not merely relaying gossip.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

I agree it seems astounding. It did to me initially.

However, quarry traffic would predominantly turn right when exiting the quarry because of the 4 tonne limit over the culvert. There is an entrance to a wooded cycle path which dog walkers would presumably use before you get to the dump site. It is possible for a few inches of frozen snow(wind driven) to blur the outline of a body.

Deckard - maybe you're a cyber-twin of mine! Ditto your thoughts. I'm compelled to explore the descriptions by A&S Police ... "There were no drag marks...".

Do we deduce Jo was "placed" there? Dropped there? Slumped there? As morbid as each description appears - especially as "Jo" has become part of many lives, part of many families ... her final deposit must be of chief concern to science. No drag marks. Carried. I think someone posed a theory that a 6 footer may have deposited her, driving a neighbour's car and ... purposely did not lift her over so that *IF* that car was picked up on cctv ... he'd be blamed (and not Tabak).

Jo now almost represents everyone's sister, niece, cousin, friend, neighbour and colleague. Jo transcended life and became "everybody's girl". A hugely talented, seemingly uncomplicated and considerate young lass ... seen happily en route home on cctv (no hint of intoxication, worry or anxiety). Moments after entering her flat - and we do know she entered her flat ... Jo was snatched from our Earth. Gone. GONE. Why? What on God's Earth could have happened so quickly that snatched away her lovely young life?

Here's something I just don't get and that is: why is it that there appears to be a refusal to possibly consider it may have been Tabak - among the Not-Guilty (NG) camp? It is possible. Is it probable? The courts will decide. However, he lived right next door, her only same-level flat neighbour; he knew Greg was away, had undisclosed time on his side (his G/f was at an office party i30 miles away) ... and he was on his own. Was he pesky about being Home Alone so close to Christmas and not being invited for office drinks?

And as Deckard mentioned earlier, Tabak didn't have to have know her, for days, weeks or months in advance. The "urge" may have been instant when he first saw her; it played on his mind. he observed her ...

To kINGFISHER (I think you commented along these lines) .. Actually, Tabak DID know JO. It's been confirmed they worked on at least 2 major projects together through their companies and within their own departments; he was at her work "hours earlier". Tabak may have seen Jo a couple of times and .... she just peaked his interest. This happens. Perhaps he feels he has a deeper, darker, more serious and insecure personal profile of himself? But.... he watched her ... he watched her ... and then set up his typical "people monitoring devices" ... and kept ... watching. For how long? Who knows. He became transfixed with this fresh, appealing, genuine English Rose. He may have needed to know and see more. What may have started out innocently, caused her death. I think Tabak has a deeper darker side, actually ...

This is SIMPLY SPECULATION - tho I believe the cops have their man! Why? How? We have to wait until October, I s'pose ...

Jo caught him. Bang ... she was snatched from her family and loved ones because ... she found out.

 

[veggiefan]

This appears to be another incorrect "fact" from the media. The General Register Office Births Index shows her birth as registered in Hammersmith, London.

That's surprising, considering her father spent almost his entire career working as a lawyer in the USA and teaching at the Harvard Law School, before retiring to Cambridge. Are you sure you found the right Tanja E. Morson?

 

[whiterum]

Thats why I put (allegedly) as it was reported that CJ had seen VT around 7pm on the evening of the 17th and told him about helping GR to start his car for his journey to Sheffield. I read it in a newspaper, so it may not be true!

Neighbours on Canynge Road yesterday claimed Tabak had returned to his flat on the Friday Miss Yeates disappeared. It is understood he spoke to ex-teacher Chris Jefferies, who had helped her boyfriend Greg Reardon start his car before a trip to Sheffield for the weekend.

A neighbour said: ‘When [Vincent] got home on his bike, Chris spoke to him on the drive and told him about what happened with the car

Daily Mail

 

[veggiefan]

Tabak didn't have to know her for days, weeks or months in advance. The "urge" may have been minutes. He saw Jo a couple of times and she peaked his interest.

You'd think he might have practised on his own girlfriend first, though (especially as she is not that dissimilar to JY).

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

You'd think he might have practised on his own girlfriend first, though (especially as she is not that dissimilar to JY).

Hey there, veg. How are you today? Cool as a cucumber, lol? Hope so! Actually, if we're going to be bold and brazen about this ... some guys fall in love with rather "missionary" style women. We cannot (ever) blame these mens fantasies on the partner they're with ... but ... we can surely consider that ... er... "indoor dining" may not have been as enticing as, say "Smorgasbord or Al Fresco" ... or ... help-yourself to ... whatever.

If there is sexual motivation that cannot be ruled out - we must have the courage to address this topic (for discussion and cases purposes only) and dissect the same.

Maybe the man was not satisfied? Maybe he was NOT in love with his darling TM? I have to say, I did find it uneasy reading that on his most professional documents of his career (i.e.: his PhD ...) he laments his love of his g/f for "finally" coming into his life. Rather telling for one deemed so astute, clever and intelligent. To me this indicates a haunting hole of insecurity or ... non-disclosed issues.

But then .... that's just my own wild speculation ... lol

 

[veggiefan]

It did originate here - it was a misunderstanding. If a newspaper has picked up such an item from a forum and published it, well, that says it all about the reliability of the press.

Here's the original post:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #7

Nothing about 2am in that post, though.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

That's surprising, considering her father spent almost his entire career working as a lawyer in the USA and teaching at the Harvard Law School, before retiring to Cambridge. Are you sure you found the right Tanja E. Morson?

Hard to decipher, maybe? Not unless it was in .... Mors code .... er, Morson code. sorry....

:truce::truce: