GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #15

[Sammyme]

I too think that the attack happened either outside the flat, or inside with the door wide open. Otherwise, I don't think the sound of her screams or calls for help would have been heard as they were. I hadn't thought of her stepping out for the cat, but that could explain how he got in. Perhaps she came home and didn't immediately lock the door, set things down while the cat was out, cracked open a cider, turned on the oven and then opened the door to call the cat.

That's what I think as well. Probably in the hallway, is my feeling. I also think it happened very shortly after she got home.

Can anyone recall whether Greg said he had let the cat out or had left it in? I do remember about him leaving the light on for Joanna but not what he said about the cat.

 

[Cherwell]

the bit where they all swear that they're going to tell the truth and nothing but the truth?

You're taking a leaf out of his book there! It should be "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth".

 

[Firefly75]

You're taking a leaf out of his book there! It should be "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth".

Sorry!!! Don't know where that bit got lost! :waitasec:

 

[aneurin]

I suppose he could have been directed by his legal team to only respond to certain specific known and proven information and offer his version of the "accidental death". Can they advise him to avoid questions that would incriminate him further and potentially lead to a murder conviction ?

705. A barrister must not:

(a) rehearse practise or coach a witness in relation to his evidence;
(b) encourage a witness to give evidence which is untruthful or which is not the whole truth;
(c) except with the consent of the representative for the opposing side or of the Court, communicate directly or indirectly about a case with any witness, whether or not the witness is his lay client, once that witness has begun to give evidence until the evidence of that witness has been concluded.

http://www.barstandardsboard.org.uk.../partvii_conductofworkbypractisingbarristers/

 

[kINGFISHER]

A snippet . Psychopath narcissistic personality etc ;
And if they do step over that thin line, it gets interesting in court. It was the genes wot dunnit, not me, m'lud. Manslaughter maybe, but not murder. God that's so interesting.

Will they go down this route because if they don't and he just gets charged with manslaughter without diminished responsibilities he will be out in a few years and he is he going to do it again.

 

[Destroyer]

It did cross my mind to wonder what Bernard's reaction would be when placed in close proximity to VT!

Remember the tv advert with the dog saying "sausages.." ??

 

[Curious Alice]

705. A barrister must not:

(a) rehearse practise or coach a witness in relation to his evidence;
(b) encourage a witness to give evidence which is untruthful or which is not the whole truth;
(c) except with the consent of the representative for the opposing side or of the Court, communicate directly or indirectly about a case with any witness, whether or not the witness is his lay client, once that witness has begun to give evidence until the evidence of that witness has been concluded.

http://www.barstandardsboard.org.uk.../partvii_conductofworkbypractisingbarristers/

So a Barrister may not encourage evasion of the truth in the court, but what about his previous legal representatives ? VT has stated in the dock that his statement was made under legal advice and guidance.

 

[Clio]

Can anyone recall whether Greg said he had let the cat out or had left it in? I do remember about him leaving the light on for Joanna but not what he said about the cat.

GR let the cat out before leaving for Sheffield

From Skynewsgatherer

Greg walked back to flat at 5.30pm. He let out Bernard the cat and got ready for a weekend away.

The cat was shut in the flat all weekend (obviously no cat flat)

From Rupert Evelyn

Greg "Cat seemed very pleased to see me. I think he was desperate to go outside. He was particularly affectionate, hungry"

 

[Luna15]

That's what I think as well. Probably in the hallway, is my feeling. I also think it happened very shortly after she got home.

Can anyone recall whether Greg said he had let the cat out or had left it in? I do remember about him leaving the light on for Joanna but not what he said about the cat.

I was looking for this myself Sammyme, it is there amongst the tweets I'll have a look, I know he said he let him out, and dont think he mentioned letting him back in - but even so, JY could have let him out again upon her return and VT came across him.

I couldn't help but feel really sad for VT's 2 sisters and brother when I just saw a news clip of them, they looked utterly bewildered - it must be tough enough coming to terms with the sheer shock of it all.... let alone doing that in a foreign country under such media scrutiny.... so sad.

 

[veggiefan]

I, too, find it hard to believe that she just politely let him throttle her without putting up a fight and just went limp in a few seconds. No sir. He probably has a darn good reason for 'not remembering' how her nose got broken and all the rest of it. I just don't buy it.

How do you prove that?

 

[veggiefan]

So a Barrister may not encourage evasion of the truth in the court, but what about his previous legal representatives ? VT has stated in the dock that his statement was made under legal advice and guidance.

Duty solicitors almost always advise saying nothing (often with good reason).

 

[kINGFISHER]

In some ways the situation is somewhat unreal or academic. Diminished responsibility is not much pleaded these days. It is true that a conviction for manslaughter because of diminished responsibility instead of murder may be seen as less heinous and less stigmatizing than murder. However, it may nonetheless be seen as undignified and stigmatizing. Furthermore, D may be seen as a serious continuing risk, a dangerous person, unlikely to respond to treatment, and therefore susceptible to life imprisonment or an indefinite sentence for public
protection IPP or very unlikely to receive parole. So paradoxically a conviction for murder may result in earlier eventual release. A “sane” manslaughter conviction on the basis of “loss of control” may result in an even earlier release, because normality and rationality will be retained and over time and with help the risk of loss of self-control may become greatly reduced or even eliminated, thus justifying early release.

 

[veggiefan]

Will they go down this route because if they don't and he just gets charged with manslaughter without diminished responsibilities he will be out in a few years and he is he going to do it again.

What evidence do you have for saying "he is going to do it again?"

Do you have evidence that he did it before?

As far as I can see, there are two classes of criminal. Those who break the law once (perhaps through naievity) and those who habitually flout the law.

It seems to me that if those who flout the law once are punished as harshly as those who flout it repeatedly, then he might just as well "do it again".

 

[aneurin]

So a Barrister may not encourage evasion of the truth in the court, but what about his previous legal representatives ? VT has stated in the dock that his statement was made under legal advice and guidance.

I understand that it is quite acceptable for solicitors to advise their clients to give 'no comment' responses during a police interview, but quite unnaceptable for them to advise their clients to lie.

 

[aneurin]

In some ways the situation is somewhat unreal or academic. Diminished responsibility is not much pleaded these days. It is true that a conviction for manslaughter because of diminished responsibility instead of murder may be seen as less heinous and less stigmatizing than murder. However, it may nonetheless be seen as undignified and stigmatizing. Furthermore, D may be seen as a serious continuing risk, a dangerous person, unlikely to respond to treatment, and therefore susceptible to life imprisonment or an indefinite sentence for public
protection IPP or very unlikely to receive parole. So paradoxically a conviction for murder may result in earlier eventual release. A “sane” manslaughter conviction on the basis of “loss of control” may result in an even earlier release, because normality and rationality will be retained and over time and with help the risk of loss of self-control may become greatly reduced or even eliminated, thus justifying early release.

I don't think we have to worry about any of that. VT has entered his defence. He is pleading guilty to good old-fashioned common law constructive manslaughter; he can't now change his defence and go for another version of manslaughter. That would not be allowed.

 

[kINGFISHER]

what evidence do you have for saying "he is going to do it again?"

do you have evidence that he did it before?

As far as i can see, there are two classes of criminal. Those who break the law once (perhaps through naievity) and those who habitually flout the law.

It seems to me that if those who flout the law once are punished as harshly as those who flout it repeatedly, then he might just as well "do it again".

i dont think he was in a right mind to do that what he did . So if he is released early because he gets away with involuntry manslauther even though he has a major problem, then yes i most definately think he is capable of doing it again .

 

[Sammyme]

GR let the cat out before leaving for Sheffield

From Skynewsgatherer



The cat was shut in the flat all weekend (obviously no cat flat)

From Rupert Evelyn

Thanks for that, Clio. So presumably he let the cat out but didn't call it back in again before leaving. So in that case it would still have been out when Joanna got home. We don't know about the cat's routine. For instance, would it turn up at the door at certain times of the evening, such as when it knew they got home from work, and scratch to be let in or would someone have to open the door and call it in? No doubt, the prosecution will have found out all of that sort of detail from Greg.

Yes, I knew he found the cat in the flat on the Sunday.

 

[aneurin]

I, too, find it hard to believe that she just politely let him throttle her without putting up a fight and just went limp in a few seconds. No sir. He probably has a darn good reason for 'not remembering' how her nose got broken and all the rest of it. I just don't buy it.

How do you prove that?

You put an expert witness on the stand. Such as Nat Carey, and ask him the question;

Q: You'd expect the victim to react, struggle?

A: Yes, having your airway interfered with causes panic

QED

 

[2goldfish]

I've got verdict-wait jitters already and it's not even gone to the jury yet. I blame OCA's jury for this.

if those jurors suck up his sad tale of "woe! I dont know, I dont remember" :sick:

 

[Sammyme]

I was looking for this myself Sammyme, it is there amongst the tweets I'll have a look, I know he said he let him out, and dont think he mentioned letting him back in - but even so, JY could have let him out again upon her return and VT came across him.

I couldn't help but feel really sad for VT's 2 sisters and brother when I just saw a news clip of them, they looked utterly bewildered - it must be tough enough coming to terms with the sheer shock of it all.... let alone doing that in a foreign country under such media scrutiny.... so sad.

I've never seen his sisters and brother. He's the youngest of the family, I believe, and spent most of his life before coming to England living in the bosom of the family, so I can imagine that they see him as the "baby" and feel a certain protectiveness towards him on account of that.