GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #16

[bos]

Look under Aneurin's posts, starts "Ive worked out" or something. It's on #15 - I attempted to quote it but it just ended up as the last post on thread 15

 

[Myserty64]

I wonder how one gently strangles someone to death?

VT portrays this crime as a type of slow motion accidental killing! A kiss gone wrong.
In reality it was most likely the opposite as Otto posted:

I'm beginning to think that this was an extremely violent brutal attack where he was on her the minute she opened the door. I was thinking that she retreated to the bedroom and he followed, but that would mean that he left the front door wide open, and that doesn't make sense. Did he grab her around the neck with his arm, turn around and close the door, then take her to the bedroom? For some reason he wants us to believe that after attacking her in the kitchen, he allegedly took her to the bedroom and laid her on the bed .and then he carried her gently, one arm under her knees and the other under her back, out the entrance.

If that happened, that he turned around and locked the door, what happened between 8:40 and 9:25 or 8:50 and 9:20? Is that when her nose was broken, her wrists were bruised, she got blood under her watch strap, in her hair and on her blouse, her torso was bruised, one sock was removed? How did the blood get onto the sole of her sock? After the attack, did he latch the door, return home, text his girlfriend, have a beer and then think he had to clean up the evidence ... so he moved his car, put Joanna out the window, got his bike bag, put her in the car and then messed with his girlfriend's head for a few weeks?

 

[Robin Hood]

Carried over, post by Aneurin....

''OK I've worked out how it was done.

What you do is this. You take one female victim, you take hold of her wrists, and force them above her head as you push her back against a wall. You can then use your arms to pin her arms against the wall, leaving both your hands free; one of which you can place on her mouth, and the other against her throat. If at the same time, you place your body at right angles to hers and thrust one knee between her legs, you can pin her lower body against the wall. She can then kick as much as she likes, but she can't make contact, and she can't move her arms, because you're using your entire body weight to pin them to the wall. And of course, all you need is 20 seconds worth of pressure to finish her off.

Now you're going to leave grip marks on her wrists, and it's possible, during the intitial struggle as you grapple with her wrists, that you might give her face a bash and give her a nose bleed, whilst she might well end up with other bruises and marks on her body, but most importantly she can't scratch or kick you, so she can't really injure or mark you. Which is a very good thing if you intend being seen in public soon afterwards. After you've popped home and changed naturally - you don't want to be seen with any blood on your shirt after all.

Now I've tried this and it works. OK, I left out the bloody nose bit. And the actual throttling to death bit as well, now that you come to mention it. There are limits to experimentation. But it does work, and it would appear to me to be a very effective method of homicide. However, I'm not sure how you'd come across it by accident ''

Thanks Bos and Veggiefan.

 

[Robin Hood]

It's possible somebody came across this in a film rather than in the course of their normal life.

 

[goldielox]

I didn't know that he read her email. Where or how was that information made public? Is there a link?

Reading her work email would suggest that he was peeking into her life in a way that was unhealthy, although it is not unusual for married couples to have each other's passwords. Are you suggesting that he was insecure in his relationship with the woman he met on the internet? Was he possessive and demanding? The prosecutor suggested that he manipulated her after the murder, with VT at one point insisting that she return from something early because he was distressed about the murder.

Comments from the girlfriend's father, early on, suggest that VT's relationship with his girlfriend was intact.

I'd say it is where work computers are concerned. I wouldn't let any partner of mine anywhere near my company laptop.

In the circumstances TM has found herself in perhaps her employer may have chosen not to make an issue of that, but it is a sackable offence which, at the very least, could make for some very uncomfortable conversations at work once they discovered this.

When you read in your employer's IT policy that you should never reveal your password to anyone one reason why not that would never spring to mind would be "because if your partner has it and kills somebody we'll find out that they had it". Well, till this case that would never spring to mind, but I'll forevermore be thinking of VT and TM where work passwords are concerned.

 

[edgedweller]

skynewsgatherer Harriet Tolputt
Jury in the Tabak trial have sent a note to the judge. #JoYeates

Does this mean they can't come to a unanimous verdict??

 

[edgedweller]

rupertevelyn Rupert Evelyn
Judge drawing jury's attention to a document they have called 'route to verdict'

 

[Neurotripsy]

rupertevelyn
Judge drawing attention to a document they have called 'route to verdict'

 

[edgedweller]

so are the jury checking with the judge that they have reached a verdict but is the route by which they came to it acceptable to him?

 

[Neurotripsy]

rupertevelyn
Judge says specifically 'what was the defendant's intention, did he intend to kill her or cause her serious bodily harm?'

 

[bees]

Lots of us said before that he'd make his story fit the known evidence and sanitise it to exclude any unknown negative aspects. His prolific use of "dunno" and "can't remember" about how JY sustained a fractured nose before death (which bled) and significant grip marks on her wrists just emphasise how much he's withholding from the jury. If he can remember that he put one hand on her mouth and another around her throat then he can remember gripping her wrists hard before that and causing her other injuries. It's also bizarre that he "can't remember" how he got a 6cm x 1cm wound on his arm - that's not a minor cut/graze.

I still think there's not conclusive proof that he intended to kill her though and if I were a juror, I'd go for not guilty.

 

[edgedweller]

ok there is more - no verdict yet. Looks like the judge is trying to chivvy them along a bit.

 

[otto]

Will do Otto.
Do you think the dull thud that was heard could have been VT's heel pushing the door closed while he held Jo ?

Edited to add- the sound would be dulled (if that's a word) if he fell back against it.

The door banging against the wall as it was swung open, the coat wrck hitting the floor, the thud as everyone hit the wall ... hard to say.

Did the door latch easily when kicked closed?

 

[notsure]

After all that time, the jury didn't understand what they were meant to be deciding.:maddening:

 

[edgedweller]

I still think there's not conclusive proof that he intended to kill her though and if I were a juror, I'd go for not guilty.

But I can't get over the fact that he squeezed her neck. Why would any reasonable person do that? He must have known that would cause her serious harm. My seven year old son knows that.

 

[notsure]

Lots of us said before that he'd make his story fit the known evidence and sanitise it to exclude any unknown negative aspects. His prolific use of "dunno" and "can't remember" about how JY sustained a fractured nose before death (which bled) and significant grip marks on her wrists just emphasise how much he's withholding from the jury. If he can remember that he put one hand on her mouth and another around her throat then he can remember gripping her wrists hard before that and causing her other injuries. It's also bizarre that he "can't remember" how he got a 6cm x 1cm wound on his arm - that's not a minor cut/graze.

I still think there's not conclusive proof that he intended to kill her though and if I were a juror, I'd go for not guilty.

What would you class as conclusive proof, though?

 

[edgedweller]

just to clarify - with the actual evidence provided in court (not that there was much!) I too would struggle with a guilty verdict. But the way he has lied and omitted makes me not trust his testimony at all. So I also don't think it was manslaughter - not the way he has explained it, anyway. He would have been better off just telling the whole truth - he's going to prison for a decent amount of time anyway, so would the 'shame' of a full and frank confession really be that bad? He would get a lot more respect if he was just truthful.

 

[Neurotripsy]

After all that time, the jury didn't understand what they were meant to be deciding.:maddening:

I'm finding this really worrying...

 

[whiterum]

Unfortunately I don't have a link to the detils of him checking her emails but it was part of the prosecutions opening statement. His constant texting, emails and calls to TM definitely suggest he was needy and insecure to me

I agree and the text from TM that she was already drinking on the bus with a friend on the way to the party, may not have went down too well and set off many imagined scenarios in a needy, insecure, paranoid mind.

 

[notsure]

I'm finding this really worrying...

After 9 and a half hours, they come back saying "what was the question again?"