UK - Julia James, 53, murdered, Snowdown, Kent, 27 April 2021 *ARREST*

[Amonet]

Dog theft is getting a lot of media attention at the moment but it really is exaggerated to almost hysteria levels because of distribution of it on social media. I just want to put the numbers into perspective:

Kent area 2020 - 117 dog thefts

This headline really does demonstrate my point about exaggeration with the words "most dangerous Kent towns"
The most dangerous towns in Kent for dog owners


Compared to 81,222 violent crimes committed in a similar 12 month period in the same Kent area.
UKCrimeStats.com - Kent Police

Fair enough comparison, but people's dogs are like their children....imagine how scared people would be if that was 117 children.

That said, I find it hard to believe the motive here was to steal the dog. The level of violence seems extreme for a dog theft, and to then leave the dog there. It feels to me more like the human was the focus for the attacker, not the dog.

 

[Rosegold68]

I don't personally think it was a dognapping gone wrong, but walking around with a murdered woman's dog could possibly raise suspicion?

i think that way toot successfully 'dognap' you would need a vehicle to transport the dog in....however that raises the point of how did this person travel? on foot? or was a vehicle closeby...or even a bike.

 

[porkypies]

Guys I am the one who posted 'dog napping gone wrong' ...firstly I am a woman myself. From London not far from where Sarah Everard went missing. Deeply affected and angered by all that is happening to women all around this country and world as such.

But I want to say thank you to those of you who simply took time to point out that I was not trying to diminish the crime and its motives...the way I go about analysing any case is by accounting for all possibilities and then one by one eliminating them.

What I am trying to say my personal opinion is given serious head injuries (plural) is that the attacker displayed a degree of anger/hate toward the victim. We dont know much detail still but given the location of crime I would assume most likely either random attack sexual in nature (might just be someone hating women) or a person close enough to Julia who knew her routine and laid in wait for her specifically (family member or work related)

But still I mentioned dog napping gone wrong because it is very common nowadays...and often involves violence against dog owner..aso in same post I pointed out that I am discounting that as unlikely because the dog was found with the victim.

If it was not remote forested area I would also try to ascertain whether the motive of attack coyld have been robbery gone wrong....yet again that can be almost completely duscounted given the location of crime and that noyhing went missing.

To reiterate....that is me thinking out loud. I still think that clearly there is a very evil person out there who deliberately hurt Julia. Might be just as simple as a women hater... might be more complicated than that. Thats no excuse to the cruel and barbaric way she was forced to leave this world.

Thank you

 

[tallmansix]

Fair enough comparison, but people's dogs are like their children....imagine how scared people would be if that was 117 children.

That said, I find it hard to believe the motive here was to steal the dog. The level of violence seems extreme for a dog theft, and to then leave the dog there. It feels to me more like the human was the focus for the attacker, not the dog.

Yes, I understand, I'm a dog owner myself but also like to try to rationalise things so just one more statistic then I'll stand down for the night:

Kent 2015 - 362 children reported being raped.
https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmicfrs/wp-content/uploads/kent-rmg-digest-2015-16.pdf

So going back to your "imagine how scared people would be if that was 117 children" then I really have to come back with "imagine how scared people would be if that was 362 children being raped" but unfortunately the media tends to be imbalanced when it comes to crime reporting.

And I think 100% of dog thefts are reported to the police, but I doubt 100% if child rapes are - just my opinion on that, everything above though is referenced statistics.

Either way I agree with you and don't think this was an attempted dog theft - the location / difficulty of escape etc just doesn't fit with the typical dog theft scenario. I also don't see any connection to the local travellers settlement, not their style even though some settlements do contribute excessively to local crime.

 

[porkypies]

I need to ask:
If the dog had disappeared would this have constituted a dog-napping gone right?
In which case it would have been a murder gone right as well because it was totally successful. Using a blunt instrument to bludgeon someone to death must have been done intentionally.
I think all of these 'gone wrong' terms are totally inappropriate altogether, and they most certainly do, in my mind, minimise such serious crimes, the term creates an impression that a murder is some kind of mishap, whereas it is committed by someone both equipped and willing to kill.
If the term is to be contemplated, it should be accompanied by some detail of just how and what might have gone wrong?
I'm not suggesting that posters shouldn't use the term, just saying it makes no sense, it needs to be explained.

 

[asmi106082]

<modsnip>

I had the thought that maybe she ran across someone who was acting suspiciously and she told them she was an officer? Could that have enraged someone? Maybe an anti-police figure? I don’t know if the UK has cop haters like we do here in the states but I could see that as being a motive to harm her. MOO.

 

[HollyHunter9]

From my interpretation of 'gone wrong' I see it that they meant if it was an attempted dog nap, perhaps the attacker were not prepared for Julia's PCSO background and were taken by suprise if she fought back...a struggle ensued and they grabbed a log or rock nearby, hit her over the head and ran off abandoning the dog napping altogether. They may not have intended to go there to kill but julia was killed in the failed attempt to steal her dog. I don't think those posting the dog napping theory are trying to minimize her murder in any way but instead are trying to offer up just another angle to look at for reason of a motive because with the limited information we have to go on it is a very baffling case.

(Personally I don't think it was a dog napping attempt but the whole point of WS is to discuss all aspects and possible motives of a crime in a group forum).

Another case it reminds me of was the school boy killer from colchester...

2014 Colchester murders - Wikipedia

James Attfield and Nahid Almanea murders: The schoolboy killer

 

[JuicyLucy]

Women told to avoid woodland after killing of PCSO Julia James

Women were warned to stay away from wooded areas and children were told not to walk their dogs after the killing of a police community support officer whose body was found on a remote path in Kent.

Detectives are investigating whether Julia James, 53, who had worked for the police for nearly 15 years, was set upon by a stranger on the edge of a field near Aylesham. PCSOs patrolling the village, near Canterbury, told women to stay away from wooded areas and not to “veer from your normal route” when walking home.

Women told to avoid woodland after killing of PCSO Julia James | News | The Times

It's so depressing the way advice to women to stay at home or in well lit, busy areas is routinely trotted out after an incident like this. I look forward very much to the day that men are told to stay home, so that LE are better able to identify the refuseniks who need to be questioned and so that women can go about their business knowing they'll be unbothered by unwanted attention. It's also depressing how recently I said more or less the same thing on one of the threads about Sarah Everard.

Every time an attack like this happens, I feel less and less able to be sanguine about how safe I will be if I want to go for a walk on my own somewhere scenic and off the beaten track. Why should women - and it is almost exclusively women who are affected by attacks like this - have to make a choice between safety and peace and quiet? It's just so unfair.

 

[Spyder84]

Last post on this one from me, I may return to lurk, however just seen the Daily Fail pick up on the fact that a Dognapping gone wrong scenario is being considered by "Some" - I'm concerned that a Journo may be reading through this thread, so no more from me.

Other then this, I still feel this was a random attack, nothing to do with the dog nor Julia's line of work. I just hope the police catch the person responsible.

 

[Kitkat28]

It's so depressing the way advice to women to stay at home or in well lit, busy areas is routinely trotted out after an incident like this. I look forward very much to the day that men are told to stay home, so that LE are better able to identify the refuseniks who need to be questioned and so that women can go about their business knowing they'll be unbothered by unwanted attention. It's also depressing how recently I said more or less the same thing on one of the threads about Sarah Everard.

Every time an attack like this happens, I feel less and less able to be sanguine about how safe I will be if I want to go for a walk on my own somewhere scenic and off the beaten track. Why should women - and it is almost exclusively women who are affected by attacks like this - have to make a choice between safety and peace and quiet? It's just so unfair.

Standing ovation!

 

[Kitkat28]

Last post on this one from me, I may return to lurk, however just seen the Daily Fail pick up on the fact that a Dognapping gone wrong scenario is being considered by "Some" - I'm concerned that a Journo may be reading through this thread, so no more from me.

Lazy “journalism” at its finest.

 

[Skigh]

Last post on this one from me, I may return to lurk, however just seen the Daily Fail pick up on the fact that a Dognapping gone wrong scenario is being considered by "Some" - I'm concerned that a Journo may be reading through this thread, so no more from me.

Other then this, I still feel this was a random attack, nothing to do with the dog nor Julia's line of work. I just hope the police catch the person responsible.

The papers have been putting forward the dognapping theory for a while based on an earlier incident in the area. I do not think a journalist has come up with the theory from reading this thread.

 

[tallmansix]

It's so depressing the way advice to women to stay at home or in well lit, busy areas is routinely trotted out after an incident like this. I look forward very much to the day that men are told to stay home, so that LE are better able to identify the refuseniks who need to be questioned and so that women can go about their business knowing they'll be unbothered by unwanted attention. It's also depressing how recently I said more or less the same thing on one of the threads about Sarah Everard.

Every time an attack like this happens, I feel less and less able to be sanguine about how safe I will be if I want to go for a walk on my own somewhere scenic and off the beaten track. Why should women - and it is almost exclusively women who are affected by attacks like this - have to make a choice between safety and peace and quiet? It's just so unfair.

Don't take your frustrations on the majority of men who are law abiding and not going to commit murder - 99.999% of men don't commit murder.

Around 73% of murder victims in the UK are male - we are victims too and the vast majority of them so you are completely wrong when you say "it is almost exclusively women who are affected".

78% of the women murdered in the UK are murdered in or around a house and the majority by a partner or ex-partner so telling men to stay at home isn't going to prevent the majority of murders committed against women - it could actually make it worse.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Following an event like this, it is absolutely the correct advice for the police to make recommendations that persons that match the victims profile are told to avoid situations similar to the victim.

How would you implement your recommendation for men to stay at home? Would they not be allowed to even go to work, visit family and accompany women on a dog walk?

Do you think the perpetrator would be the only male leaving their house and therefore instantly caught?

 

[porkypies]

I would be interested to know more about the people who found JJ.
Since the description of them being 'multiple' people seems odd, I'll call them a group.

Was she found on a path or in a more secluded place? how did they find her if not on the path?
Was the murderer really lucky that the group did not turn up sooner and witness the murder?
Where were the group in the short time between the murder happening and them finding her?
Did the group arrive at the spot from 'behind' JJ or from ahead of her(where she was intending to walk)?
Again, was the escaping murderer lucky not to be seen by the group at all, or are there various ways of easily accessing the path from different directions? Were they a known group whose timing could have been known to the murderer?
Was she murdered on the path or elsewhere?

Interesting that the dog had not been put in fear enough to run home, I wonder if he was staying with JJ as maybe he would if she was asleep?
I think that the dog would provide a good means of approaching JJ - by making a fuss of him and passing the time of day if he were at her side - and that could keep the dog calm
too.
Did she have a lead for the dog with her, or did he run loose in the woods?

 

[tallmansix]

I've put my answers in bold in a quote from your post with what I know from the news reports.

I would be interested to know more about the people who found JJ.
Since the description of them being 'multiple' people seems odd, I'll call them a group.
Not confirmed, could be multiple individuals or a group.

Was she found on a path or in a more secluded place? how did they find her if not on the path?
On a path by the look of the forensic tent in the photos
Was the murderer really lucky that the group did not turn up sooner and witness the murder?
Time window from victim last being seen at 3pm and found at 4pm. Clear view from that spot of any approaching people so not luck but planning and opportunity. Appears to be dense woodland adjacent to crime scene to immediately vanish out of sight.
Where were the group in the short time between the murder happening and them finding her?
Not known
Did the group arrive at the spot from 'behind' JJ or from ahead of her(where she was intending to walk)?
Not known
Again, was the escaping murderer lucky not to be seen by the group at all, or are there various ways of easily accessing the path from different directions? Were they a known group whose timing could have been known to the murderer?
See map below I created for the various ways of accessing the path
Was she murdered on the path or elsewhere?
Appears to be on the path from photos of the location of the forensic tent
Interesting that the dog had not been put in fear enough to run home, I wonder if he was staying with JJ as maybe he would if she was asleep?
Dogs generally stay with their owner in my experience
I think that the dog would provide a good means of approaching JJ - by making a fuss of him and passing the time of day if he were at her side - and that could keep the dog calm too.
It was a tiny dog so I can't see it being of threat to a potential murderer other than noise it might make. If the perpetrator was a stranger to the victim, I can't see them introducing themselves and losing the element of surprise. EDIT: Probably same if know to the victim.
Did she have a lead for the dog with her, or did he run loose in the woods?
As a dog walker I'd say most likely the dog would be off the lead at that point in an open field although the owner would likely be carrying a lead to use in other parts of the walk.

EDIT: Just want to add that the dog appears to be 9+ years old from looking at social media history - not a typical target dog for theft, normally puppies / high value pedigrees.

 

[swedeheart]

'Dognapper was on the prowl' weeks before PCSO Julia James was killed | Daily Mail Online

 

[JuicyLucy]

Don't take your frustrations on the majority of men who are law abiding and not going to commit murder - 99.999% of men don't commit murder.

Around 73% of murder victims in the UK are male - we are victims too and the vast majority of them so you are completely wrong when you say "it is almost exclusively women who are affected".

78% of the women murdered in the UK are murdered in or around a house and the majority by a partner or ex-partner so telling men to stay at home isn't going to prevent the majority of murders committed against women - it could actually make it worse.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Following an event like this, it is absolutely the correct advice for the police to make recommendations that persons that match the victims profile are told to avoid situations similar to the victim.

How would you implement your recommendation for men to stay at home? Would they not be allowed to even go to work, visit family and accompany women on a dog walk?

Do you think the perpetrator would be the only male leaving the house and therefore instantly caught?

I'm not just talking about homicide. I'm talking about any incident where the attitude of LE is that the best thing would be for women to stay at home or otherwise curb or self-edit their activities. That includes assaults, rapes, sexual assaults, abductions and so-called minor incidents such as indecent exposure, kerb-crawling, and all manner of offensive and deliberately intimidating behaviour. The vast majority of victims in those cases are women, so no, I'm not wrong. However, even if the comparable vulnerability of men is an argument you want to try and make, it's also true that irrespective of the sex of the victim the vast majority of perpetrators of violent or coercive crimes are men. So it would be safer for all of us if, while LE were still involved in the preliminary investigation of a violent crime, men would stay at home for everyone's safety. No?

As for how to implement that - I mean, surely it would be enough just to make that request via the media? Asking an entire demographic group to stay at home for everyone's safety is just common sense, no? Surely any man ignoring that request would just be asking for trouble? Or is it not so reasonable when the boot's on the other foot?

Anyway, we are getting off topic here, so let's stop derailing the thread. It's a shame frustration at what, by any common sense measure, is clearly more of a problem for women than men can't simply be accepted at face value. The victim here was a trained LE officer fgs and even so was unable, when off duty and outwith the symbolic power of her profession, to stay safe while walking her dog and minding her own business. It's not unreasonable to wonder what hope there is for the rest of us.

JMHO

 

[annpats]

I actually don't think anyone will ever be arrested for this. I think the police are as clueless as everyone else as to exactly who and how and why.

To murder someone at 15.00hrs on a Monday afternoon during covid lockdown when many people are at home and not work, shows bravado on the part of the murderer.

The chances there would potentially be others about (walkers, school traffic cars, maybe the odd horse rider etc) are quite high, even in that rural-ish location. (I live in Kent too and have done for 40 years.)

It all just smacks of being extremely lucky the perpetrator was not seen by someone.
Which makes me think it was a random attack. But I can't get my head around such a random attack.
But then again, I can't get my head around a planned attack either.

It's just bizarre.

 

[Kitkat28]

The papers have been putting forward the dognapping theory for a while based on an earlier incident in the area. I do not think a journalist has come up with the theory from reading this thread.

Journalists certainly came up with a LOT of information from reading the Sarah Everard threads here. Specifically regarding activity in the street where the suspect lived, and information they could only have got here.

It would be naive to think that “newspapers” who trawl Facebook, Instagram, Reddit and even Mumsnet for “stories” are not doing the same here.

 

[Kitkat28]

This dognapping idea is, IMO, getting out of hand now. No-one bludgeons a woman to death to (not) steal an elderly jack russell.

It all just smacks of being extremely lucky the perpetrator was not seen by someone.

This is what sticks out for me. People walk dogs at all hours of the day, and it’s very unusual not to come across other people out and about. I’m really surprised at the audacity of an attacker who thought they’d not be noticed by anyone else.