Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #11 *ARREST*

[Hatfield]

We don't know any details about what it was that made greybeard stop his car and check that Libby was ok do we? I'm now wondering if he saw her talking to a 'man' (not naming names here) and sensed that something wasn't quite right. The 'man' may then have wandered off (aka sat and had a *advertiser censored*) whilst waiting for greybeard to go away... and then returned to hassle Libby.
Also... since the police clearly don't mind appealing for witnesses who were around that night, it's odd that they haven't asked spiderman to come forward. I know others have already said this, but it does look like they know who spiderman is. Whether it's PR is another matter.

And lastly - I'm not sure why people are saying there was a gap in PR's alleged offending (ie. nothing in 2017). As far as I can make out the offences happened on the following dates:

Dec 4th 2017 (Monday) Theft of Playstation stuff and £25 Lambton Street
Jan 23 2018 (Tuesday) Voyeurism, Etstuary Street
Jan 19th 2019 (Sat) Masturbating in a public place (street?)
Jan 25th - 28th 2019 (Fri-Mon) Trespass, theft of laptop, kindle, speaker, sex toys, condoms and photographs. Ventnor street. (Sounds like the occupants may have been away for the weekend, hence the non-specific dates).

There's also the events of December 26th 2018 (flashing and peering through the window) on Wellesley Street, right?

Have I missed anything?

It does seem he favours the period around Christmas doesn't it? although of course there may be other unreported incidents.

JMO
I dont think Greybeard saw her talking to someone else because LE interviewed Greybeard and he would have told them that and gave a description. I think it is more likely Greybeard saw her alone crying and very upset on the bench. Maybe she was even laying down across the bench or maybe had fallen off the bench and possibly laying on the ground even.

Whatever it was it had to be severe enough distress to make Greybeard stop and offer assistance. Because if she was just sitting there and not in any distress then it is not too likely he would have stopped to offer assistance.

As far as the charges against PR I think you have most of them and to me some of those are serious charges so I would hope for the burglaries at least he would get a stiff sentence if he is found guilty.

I have seen a few times people mention that they are relative minor offenses but to me the burglaries and other acts are serious charges and so if he is guilty I hope it gets him locked up for a long time.

Does anyone know the sentencing guidelines for the burglaries he has charges for?

 

[Newthoughts]

We don't know any details about what it was that made greybeard stop his car and check that Libby was ok do we? I'm now wondering if he saw her talking to a 'man' (not naming names here) and sensed that something wasn't quite right. The 'man' may then have wandered off (aka sat and had a *advertiser censored*) whilst waiting for greybeard to go away... and then returned to hassle Libby.
Also... since the police clearly don't mind appealing for witnesses who were around that night, it's odd that they haven't asked spiderman to come forward. I know others have already said this, but it does look like they know who spiderman is. Whether it's PR is another matter.

And lastly - I'm not sure why people are saying there was a gap in PR's alleged offending (ie. nothing in 2017). As far as I can make out the offences happened on the following dates:

Dec 4th 2017 (Monday) Theft of Playstation stuff and £25 Lambton Street
Jan 23 2018 (Tuesday) Voyeurism, Etstuary Street
Jan 19th 2019 (Sat) Masturbating in a public place (street?)
Jan 25th - 28th 2019 (Fri-Mon) Trespass, theft of laptop, kindle, speaker, sex toys, condoms and photographs. Ventnor street. (Sounds like the occupants may have been away for the weekend, hence the non-specific dates).

There's also the events of December 26th 2018 (flashing and peering through the window) on Wellesley Street, right?

Have I missed anything?

It does seem he favours the period around Christmas doesn't it? although of course there may be other unreported incidents.

I had wondered if grey beard had stopped because he'd seen PRs car prowling around and that's what the police meant by 'very helpful' but I guess we won't know till the whole thing goes to court

 

[Winterbells]

Not quite. Dec 26th was Ella Street rather than Wellesley Avenue, for which he hasn't been charged thus far. Wellesley was January 19th, less than 2 weeks before LS disappeared. Full charges are here:

Everything that happened when Pawel Relowicz appeared in court

Ah, thanks, Vermont.

 

[Winterbells]

Just putting the corrected version of charges here (in chronological order).

On July 23, 2017, in Edgecumbe Street, you observed another person doing a private act knowing that person did not consent to being observed for your sexual gratification.

Between December 1 and December 4, 2017, in Hull, namely Lambton Street, you entered as a trespasser and stole therein a PlayStation 4 console, a controller and £25 in cash.

Between December 7 and December 10, 2017, you entered as a trespasser to a property in Raglan Street and stole therein of a value unknown three vibrators.

On January 19, 2019, in a public place namely Wellesley Avenue, you committed an act outraging public decency by behaving in an indecent manner by masturbating in a public place.

Between January 25 and January 28, 2019, you entered as a trespasser in Ventnor Street and stole a computer laptop, a Kindle, a speaker, a quantity of sex toys, condoms, knickers and photographs.

Where did I get voyeurism in Estuary Street from (Jan 23rd 2018)?

 

[Winterbells]

JMO
...I dont think Greybeard saw her talking to someone else because LE interviewed Greybeard and he would have told them that and gave a description...

True, but we don't know what Greybeard helpfully told the police.

 

[Vermont24]

Looking at the charges like that, it's 2018 which appears to be the 'quiet' year.

 

[Winterbells]

If Spiderman is the abductor, I am very interested to know what he was doing before he approached his car to sit and roll a cig (or whatever it was he was doing) because surely it must have had something to do with Libby. He looks like he's killing time. If he's spotted someone to abduct, why would he need to kill time? That's the main reason I'm thinking about Greybeard really.

 

[Hatfield]

If Spiderman is the abductor, I am very interested to know what he was doing before he approached his car to sit and roll a cig (or whatever it was he was doing) because surely it must have had something to do with Libby. He looks like he's killing time. If he's spotted someone to abduct, why would he need to kill time? That's the main reason I'm thinking about Greybeard really.

I do agree it sure looked like he was blowing time on purpose.

I have always wondered if maybe he saw LS before that point and maybe saw greybeard helping her and maybe was waiting to see if greybeard was going to leave her there.

 

[LucyRocket]

I'd be surprised if Greybeard saw her on or near the bench. Especially as it sounds like he was the driver. It's a big road, it was dark, it's not the middle of nowhere where it would be unusual to see someone. That bench is set right back in the dark. Also it's a city, I wouldn't imagine it's unusual to see someone sitting on a bench.

 

[Newthoughts]

Just putting the corrected version of charges here (in chronological order).

On July 23, 2017, in Edgecumbe Street, you observed another person doing a private act knowing that person did not consent to being observed for your sexual gratification.

Between December 1 and December 4, 2017, in Hull, namely Lambton Street, you entered as a trespasser and stole therein a PlayStation 4 console, a controller and £25 in cash.

Between December 7 and December 10, 2017, you entered as a trespasser to a property in Raglan Street and stole therein of a value unknown three vibrators.

On January 19, 2019, in a public place namely Wellesley Avenue, you committed an act outraging public decency by behaving in an indecent manner by masturbating in a public place.

Between January 25 and January 28, 2019, you entered as a trespasser in Ventnor Street and stole a computer laptop, a Kindle, a speaker, a quantity of sex toys, condoms, knickers and photographs.

Where did I get voyeurism in Estuary Street from (Jan 23rd 2018)?

You've definitely got it from somewhere because I remember looking at the locations of the charges very early on, before joining here, and I distinctly remember looking for an Estuary Street for a January voyeurism. When I checked at a later date I thought I'd been mistaken and it must have been Edgecumbe street in June. Hmmm.

 

[Winterbells]

Ok, now I'm completely confused. Please tell me I'm not going mad...

The Mirror lists the charges differently to Hull live, in that they omit this:
On July 23, 2017, in Edgecumbe Street, you observed another person doing a private act knowing that person did not consent to being observed for your sexual gratification.
but include this:
On January 23, 2018, in Estuary Street you observed another person doing a private act know that person did not consent to being observed for your sexual gratification.
Libby Squire suspect 'performed sex act in her street'

 

[Vermont24]

If it helps, from a local, there isn't an Estuary Street in Hull. It's just a typo from a national newspaper - and not one known for quality!

 

[Offaly]

She was only just 21. Hardly full of worldly wisdom and experience of drinking. It's possible she'd never been that drunk before. We've nearly all been there. She went out to have fun which she is entitled to do. She drank too much.

She did not get behind the wheel of a car. I doubt she ever would in that condition because she's of the generation that's been brought up not to drink and drive. She didn't go near water. She did not endanger anyone.

Her behaviour WAS discouraged- she was refused entry to a club she wanted to go to. She'd spent time getting ready to go to. Was looking forward to. If she hadn't come across some psychopath she'd have been further discouraged by a massive hangover

PR managed to drive around without attracting the attention of the police so we can assume he was NOT drunk. If he is guilty, and that is for the court to decide, he has caused considerably and deliberate harm to her, her family and her friends.

She was vulnerable because he, if guilty, was out prowling. She'd have been just as vulnerable if she'd been lying in her bed sober and he'd broken in. Or soberly walking back from the chip shop or library or any quiet dimly lit area. It was the person she came across that made her vulnerable. So do all females stop living because of the tiny minority of rapists and murderers?

The harm caused was deliberately caused. The person that caused it unlikely to be drunk. Even the lowest most selfish drunk driver doesn't set out to harm.

She was only just 21. Hardly full of worldly wisdom and experience of drinking. It's possible she'd never been that drunk before. We've nearly all been there. She went out to have fun which she is entitled to do. She drank too much.

She did not get behind the wheel of a car. I doubt she ever would in that condition because she's of the generation that's been brought up not to drink and drive. She didn't go near water. She did not endanger anyone.

Her behaviour WAS discouraged- she was refused entry to a club she wanted to go to. She'd spent time getting ready to go to. Was looking forward to. If she hadn't come across some psychopath she'd have been further discouraged by a massive hangover

PR managed to drive around without attracting the attention of the police so we can assume he was NOT drunk. If he is guilty, and that is for the court to decide, he has caused considerably and deliberate harm to her, her family and her friends.

She was vulnerable because he, if guilty, was out prowling. She'd have been just as vulnerable if she'd been lying in her bed sober and he'd broken in. Or soberly walking back from the chip shop or library or any quiet dimly lit area. It was the person she came across that made her vulnerable. So do all females stop living because of the tiny minority of rapists and murderers?

The harm caused was deliberately caused. The person that caused it unlikely to be drunk. Even the lowest most selfish drunk driver doesn't set out to harm.

Sorry, I seem to have wandered into a strange world of a Presbyterian Morality Seminar coupled with Diana-esque weeping and wailing

Put the Gin down.

Put it in your pantry with your cupcakes.

It's my mistake. I must have taken a wrong turning. Like the great Cynic philosopher Diogenes, I was simply looking for an honest man here in this corrupt Athenian State.



On a serious note...the ongoing debate on our new thread above does re-iterate strongly the fact that not only do we know very little about the events that LE are currently investigating, but also very little about LS herself, her Personality, Morality or Psychology .

Hopefully March 11th ,or some random turn before then, will shine a new light.

I think what makes the whole thing especially tragic is so many people kind of let her down that night (not blaming anyone, just a terrible sequence of events). We don't know how ls came to be so drunk that night, it may have been a one off; the club turned her away for being too drunk; her friends put her in a taxi alone; noone checked or remembered if she had a key/phone; the taxi driver knew she was in a bad way as she fell; the students across the road noticed how drunk she was but went on their way; graybeard must have seen she was in a bad way too; people who heard screaming; others may have saw her too. So many missed opportunities, noones fault of course but totally heartbreaking that this poor girl ended up in such a situation.

 

[Winterbells]

Here are the two different versions in chronological order. I'm putting them here to double check for myself as much as anything else.

Everything that happened when Pawel Relowicz appeared in court

On July 23, 2017, in Edgecumbe Street, you observed another person doing a private act knowing that person did not consent to being observed for your sexual gratification.

Between December 1 and December 4, 2017, in Hull, namely Lambton Street, you entered as a trespasser and stole therein a PlayStation 4 console, a controller and £25 in cash.

Between December 7 and December 10, 2017, you entered as a trespasser to a property in Raglan Street and stole therein of a value unknown three vibrators.

On January 19, 2019, in a public place namely Wellesley Avenue, you committed an act outraging public decency by behaving in an indecent manner by masturbating in a public place.

Between January 25 and January 28, 2019, you entered as a trespasser in Ventnor Street and stole a computer laptop, a Kindle, a speaker, a quantity of sex toys, condoms, knickers and photographs.

Libby Squire suspect 'performed sex act in her street'

Between December 1 and December 4, 2017, in Hull, namely Lambton Street, you entered as a trespasser and stoke therein a PlayStation 4 console, a controller and £25 in cash

Between December 7 and December 10, 2017, you entered as a trespasser to a property in Raglan Street and stoke therein of a value unknown three vibrators

On January 19, 2019 you committed an act outraging public decency by behaving in an indecent manner by masturbating in a public place

On January 23, 2018, in Estuary Street you observed another person doing a private act know that person did not consent to being observed for your sexual gratification

Between January 25 and January 28, 2019, you entered as a trespasser in Ventnor Street and stole a computer laptop, a Kindle, a speaker, a quantity of sex toys, condoms, knickers and photographs.

 

[Newthoughts]

When did PR move to Hull? There were rumours about a flasher in york and efits that looked like him at the time he was there.

Nothing in 2018 is odd. Do the experienced posters have any ideas from previous cases why large gaps like that occur? I'm guessing prison isn't an explaination in this case

I know there is good evidence linking him to one charge.

 

[TheCasual]

What sort of sentencing would PR be looking at if found guilty?

 

[Vermont24]

When did PR move to Hull? There were rumours about a flasher in york and efits that looked like him at the time he was there.

Nothing in 2018 is odd. Do the experienced posters have any ideas from previous cases why large gaps like that occur? I'm guessing prison isn't an explaination in this case

I know there is good evidence linking him to one charge.

2018 looks empty, but it likely isn't. He wasn't charged with anything, but that doesn't mean nothing took place. For one, there was the Dec 26th incident. We also had at least two flashing incidents on the same street during the summer. I'm not going to say it was PR, but it's not a huge stretch to at least consider it a possibility.

 

[Winterbells]

If it helps, from a local, there isn't an Estuary Street in Hull. It's just a typo from a national newspaper - and not one known for quality!

It does help, thanks.
So the Mirror have misreported this charge:

On July 23, 2017, in Edgecumbe Street, you observed another person doing a private act knowing that person did not consent to being observed for your sexual gratification.

as the following:
On January 23, 2018, in Estuary Street you observed another person doing a private act know that person did not consent to being observed for your sexual gratification.

Trust me, I don't read the rag, but it has certainly confused me. So in fact, as you've noted, there are no charges relating to 2018.

 

[Vaccine]

I think what makes the whole thing especially tragic is so many people kind of let her down that night (not blaming anyone, just a terrible sequence of events). We don't know how ls came to be so drunk that night, it may have been a one off; the club turned her away for being too drunk; her friends put her in a taxi alone; noone checked or remembered if she had a key/phone; the taxi driver knew she was in a bad way as she fell; the students across the road noticed how drunk she was but went on their way; graybeard must have seen she was in a bad way too; people who heard screaming; others may have saw her too. So many missed opportunities, noones fault of course but totally heartbreaking that this poor girl ended up in such a situation.

I'd also like to question why women shouldn't be drunk because they risk men attacking, assaulting or murdering them. Whilst generally men just need to avoid a punch up or falling in a river. I don't accept why women should have to have more responsibility not to be drunk than men. This is an in principle point - not questioning real world risks.

 

[Winterbells]

I'd also like to question why women shouldn't be drunk because they risk men attacking, assaulting or murdering them. Whilst generally men just need to avoid a punch up or falling in a river. I don't accept why women should have to have more responsibility not to be drunk than men. This is an in principle point - not questioning real world risks.

This^