Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #12 *ARREST*

[Vermont24]

My doubts are because I fail see how he could cover his tracks so well.

Let's not fall into that trap. There's no indication he has. Circumstance has likely played a bigger part than skill.

 

[Strontium69]

.
Can’t see how you can doubt he’s involved. He’s charged with a history of sexually motivated crimes, there’s a young woman missing in the area who was drunk and vulnerable, and his family have said she was in his car.... it’s just unfortunate, she has not been found yet. Many of us on the site believe that’s because she ended up in the river.

My doubts are because I fail see how he could cover his tracks so well.

I echo that.

The question is not whether or not PR has the profile to escalate to causing physical harm.

PR's criminal footprint appears to be larger than his carbon footprint.

So how can such a messy compulsive offender commit such a serious offence and LEAVE NO TRACE.

AT ALL.

 

[PaddyOreally?]

My doubts are because I fail see how he could cover his tracks so well.

Because they're might not be any evidence. If you drove me to the park and then we walked to the river and you pushed me in there wouldn't be any evidence of foul play.
But the river is the only way I can see it happening, otherwise I agree with you. I don't see how he could cover his tracks so well in any other scenario that doesn't include the river.

 

[Vermont24]

Quick and dirty thoughts on covering your tracks. Or not.

PR's car - LS's DNA is found, probably her hair. PR can explain that by saying he merely gave her a lift. She was alive and well the whole time she was in the car, so no blood, cadaverine or putrescine is found.

The park - LE certainly found and took things away, but were they related to LS and PR? If they were, perhaps they could be explained by them simply being there or, at worst, a consensual sexual encounter.

No LS - I think this really is down to pot luck with the river.

 

[PaddyOreally?]

I echo that.

The question is not whether or not PR has the profile to escalate to causing physical harm.

PR's criminal footprint appears to be larger than his carbon footprint.

So how can such a messy compulsive offender commit such a serious offence and LEAVE NO TRACE.

AT ALL.

The thing is though is how can anyone leave no trace?
Because something must have happened but as far as we know there is little to no evidence.

I'm starting to think that maybe the location is completely wrong and the park is the wrong place to be looking.

So confusing!

 

[alfiedug]

The thing is though is how can anyone leave no trace?
Because something must have happened but as far as we know there is little to no evidence.

I'm starting to think that maybe the location is completely wrong and the park is the wrong place to be looking.

So confusing!

I would like to know what took them in the night to a bench in the park to do forensics ?

 

[Deckard]

Maybe the park is the place because there is a lack of evidence.

If PR feigned a simple drop off at Wellesley Av and gunned it to Oak Rd or faked a "I'll just turn at the top of Beresford Av" to get to his preferred destination, less chance for LS to fight him in the car while he is distracted by driving with at least one hand on the wheel. Therefore no signs of facial injury after the event?

 

[PaddyOreally?]

I would like to know what took them in the night to a bench in the park to do forensics ?

Me too!
Hadn't they already searched that general area as well before that? So they must have gone back to look for something small? Or they would have already found it?

Maybe they were looking for scratch marks or fingernail samples on the underside of the bench?

 

[Strontium69]

Well we don’t know what evidence the police have got - they may just be holding off charging as they need to fill in all the pieces. The fact they have him in custody gives them more time to piece it together.

Is that how it works? Surely for something as serious as this they don't need to play these games - if they have such strong suspicions can't they simply ask the CPS for more time, or get a magistrate/judge to grant more time? If they have a strong working theory that is more than just guess work, surely then the other agencies involved would be part of that process?

I really don't know in detail, but this seems a bit of run around after they initial declared abduction?

It's not like the Police have declared 'signs of struggle' somewhere, or they think she was abducted by car, or they think she is in the river, they literally have given us ZERO theory as to what they think has happened, apart from they suspect PR involved in her 'abduction' and that poor Libby has probably come to harm.

The best way I can describe my mental process of putting the pieces of information together during this case...

It is like doing a jigsaw... (without a picture guide)... and at some point you start to realise that there are two different jigsaws mixed up in the one box...

 

[Coach]

Deleted

What was deleted??

 

[Strontium69]

Me too!
Hadn't they already searched that general area as well before that? So they must have gone back to look for something small? Or they would have already found it?

Maybe they were looking for scratch marks or fingernail samples on the underside of the bench?

Would have to check, but I seem to remember that it was the other way round? They were at the bench pretty early... before they were searching the grass and the abandoned buildings?

Well spotted and good thinking though! It just occurred to me today when I was posting the pics of the police searches that all the photos of forensics and searching was during daylight - EXCEPT for the searching the park bench, AND searching the front doors on Wellesley. So I think that was very early on, within three days? So maybe they went at night just due to the urgent nature of it. After a few more days, there was no need to search at night?

 

[THEmittens]

Or maybe he recorded it all in a grey leather bound wilko's journal

Apologies but I must have missed what is the relevance of this Wilko's journal? Thanks

 

[alfiedug]

Me too!
Hadn't they already searched that general area as well before that? So they must have gone back to look for something small? Or they would have already found it?

Maybe they were looking for scratch marks or fingernail samples on the underside of the bench?

The fire and rescue service searched the park and pond on the Saturday morning at 11 in the morning

 

[Plod]

Is that how it works? Surely for something as serious as this they don't need to play these games - if they have such strong suspicions can't they simply ask the CPS for more time, or get a magistrate/judge to grant more time? If they have a strong working theory that is more than just guess work, surely then the other agencies involved would be part of that process?

I really don't know in detail, but this seems a bit of run around after they initial declared abduction?

It's not like the Police have declared 'signs of struggle' somewhere, or they think she was abducted by car, or they think she is in the river, they literally have given us ZERO theory as to what they think has happened, apart from they suspect PR involved in her 'abduction' and that poor Libby has probably come to harm.

The best way I can describe my mental process of putting the pieces of information together during this case...

It is like doing a jigsaw... (without a picture guide)... and at some point you start to realise that there are two different jigsaws mixed up in the one box...

They’ve had their 96 hours with him to question him re abduction. The only way they can question him again is if new evidence comes to light such as they find Libby.

They are obviously still struggling to actually pin abduction/murder on him, though can charge/possible prison sentence for lesser crimes - keeps him off the streets endangering women.

They have limited what information they have given the public - only appealed to us when needed - rightly so in the interests of fair trial, to avoid prejudicing their case as well. We can’t be told day to day what they’re thinking because at the end of the day it will only prejudice a trial.

 

[Strontium69]

The thing is though is how can anyone leave no trace?
Because something must have happened but as far as we know there is little to no evidence.

I'm starting to think that maybe the location is completely wrong and the park is the wrong place to be looking.

So confusing!

Yes - the park has to have a huge question mark. There is ZERO physical evidence, despite the photos of police with evidence bags. I think that the only evidence they had was an indication around that bench from the dog.

BUT

We are all often forgetting one EXTREMELY important factor.

The ground was covered in half an inch of ice that night.

This is why I think that the bench is the only thing that has provided any evidence (scent for the dogs)

The ground had been consistently cold and was minus 5 that night. It was icy rather than snowy, meaning that it was highly unlikely that footprints were physically left, either on the snow/ice, or beneath in the frozen ground. The pond was frozen.

The only places not frozen would have been the very edges of the river.

SO - no tracks for the police, no scent left on the ground for the dog.

BUT I would have expected some indication at the edge of the river...

 

[Vermont24]

We have no idea what evidence there is or isn't.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Yep. And don't forget he was arrested the beginning of Feb. So in terms offences per week he was getting quite prolific.

Has anyone determined if these sort of crimes have decreased since February?

 

[Strontium69]

We have no idea what evidence there is or isn't.

But they have been forthcoming before - the three items found straight away.

Sure they may have some CCTV of PR and Libby that they have not disclosed. But why?

That approach would only really make sense if they believed she was still alive and any disclosure could endanger her further wouldn't it?

 

[PaddyOreally?]

We have no idea what evidence there is or isn't.

Yeah but we know there isn't enough evidence for them to charge pr, so there's likely no evidence of blood deposits. No evidence of a crime scene. And no evidence that can link pr to any foul play.
And no evidence that someone else is involved as there are no other people of interest.

 

[Vermont24]

But they have been forthcoming before - the three items found straight away.

The lipgloss, hammer and screwdriver which were quickly dismissed as not being part of the investigation?

Edit - The tabloids were actually on the scene when that happened, and immediately splashed pictures of them all over the internet. LE had to say something.