Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #13 *ARREST*

[Armchair_Defective]

Yes, a predatory stalker. End game is usually rape/murder. Although, if an opportunity arises for them to attack a defenceless, helpless stranger, few of these animals could resist.

It would be pure speculation but I wouldn't be surprised if he stalked Libby, there could be more instances where he was in people's houses and it wasn't noticed or reported.

 

[Deleted member 238128]

So PR is leading them a wild goose chase?
Plausable but cctv/anpr would very quickly trip him up and prove he wad lying.
Police asked for dashcam footage of anyone "in the area" from 1130-0300.

I dont know how you think he could leave the area undetected.?

Which area are you referring to?

 

[lilmissd33]

Right, I get you, I suppose it's a moot point anyway. Police will just want to prove what happened so I hope they are able to.

Me too, maybe I'm hoping his lack of preparation for the overall crime will prove his undoing, as I'm of the opinion he could get away with a lot if his mind is set on it.

 

[Vermont24]

What if cause of death comes back as "death by drowning". Accident, or do we look at whether someone assisted that drowning. I'm kind of hoping for something more clear cut, sadly.

Don't lose your head.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[Vermont24]

I think what bothers me most is how someone goes from a pervy knicker snatcher to a murderer. I am really struggling with this because if he has then is there something he has done in-between? Wish I knew a profiler to ask because I'm sure it can happen.

I think what started off as an opportune escalation maybe groping maybe hoping to get further somehow went horrifically wrong, as it is a extreme leap IMO a few text book steps missed

I agree with you on this, @lilmissd33. I don't think we're looking at a planned, linear jump in terms of escalation.

 

[Sammie1970]

Just heard the RNLI speaking on Crimewatch Roadshow this morning talking about dying in the Irish waters of the UK and they spoke to a Lifesaving Manager. 190 people die every year in the UK and Irish Waters and over half of those never intended to enter the water in the first place. The reason I mention it is because he said : "Freezing cold water - 6 to 10 degrees at this time of year (March) and if you enter the water unexpectedly you can expect to get some cold water shock which had a natural physiological response with a gasp reflex so its really important you control your breathing so you don't inhale the water. " It was the gasp reflex comment that got my attention. Just thinking of gasping then screaming on and off maybe?

This is really interesting, would it be possible? It could explain no one seeing or helping if they didn't look to the water.

 

[Plod]

I think it's a given that if he left the area that they have some cctv showing where he was heading.

No crime in driving around though is there, unless they have CCTV of him actually putting something in the river what can they do?

He could have just been out for a leisurely late night drive it's up to LE to prove he wasn't.

Maybe if they manage to pinpoint where she entered the water they will have a chance of connecting him to it.

I just don’t believe he’d have risked leaving the park with her - dead or alive - I’m certain he took her in there and that’s how she ended up in river. He’s cased the area - he knows these streets, where cctv might be, , routed to the park, the river: I just think he had something like this in mind. His “luck” was that night that he found a vulnerable alone young woman. I think his luck has run out now.

 

[Cherwell]

Although if she has been in the water since that night, I am amazed it has taken this long for someone to see her and raise the alarm.
The Humber was searched after her disapearance. Only thing I can think off was that her body was still making its way down the local watercourse at the time and has only recently entered the Humber.

The body is unlikely to have been on the surface the whole time.

 

[OrlandoJames]

I agree with you on this, @lilmissd33. I don't think we're looking at a planned, linear jump in terms of escalation.

Yes. It's important to remember that the jump from sexual deviancy to murder does not need to be planned. In many cases, it probably occurs because circumstances arise during the intended crime that lead the attacker to commit a much more serious crime. It happens on the spur of the moment and before they know it they've gone from being a flasher/rapist to a murderer. Once they've made that step, many will find it easier to do so again

 

[Deleted member 238128]

Just heard the RNLI speaking on Crimewatch Roadshow this morning talking about dying in the Irish waters of the UK and they spoke to a Lifesaving Manager. 190 people die every year in the UK and Irish Waters and over half of those never intended to enter the water in the first place. The reason I mention it is because he said : "Freezing cold water - 6 to 10 degrees at this time of year (March) and if you enter the water unexpectedly you can expect to get some cold water shock which had a natural physiological response with a gasp reflex so its really important you control your breathing so you don't inhale the water. " It was the gasp reflex comment that got my attention. Just thinking of gasping then screaming on and off maybe?

A little bird told me that it is impossible to scream if you are drowning. If the gasp reflex has been activated your body is already in the process of prioritising oxygen conservation it would not allow you to scream as it views breathing to be far more important.

 

[lilmissd33]

Yes. It's important to remember that the jump from sexual deviancy to murder does not need to be planned. In many cases, it probably occurs because circumstances arise during the intended crime that lead the attacker to commit a much more serious crime. It happens on the spur of the moment and before they know it they've gone from being a flasher/rapist to a murderer. Once they've made that step, many will find it easier to do so again

Worded much more eloquently than I, and agree circumstance got ahead of him, I'm preying that because it was spur of the moment his control or rather lack of, in situation leaves evidence, as i agree there would be a more controlled next time/times.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Which area are you referring to?

I assume the police were referring to the immediate area where she went missing. Beverley Rd/Beresford Ave, Cott rd/Clough rd junction. Just around there would be my interpretation of "in the area".

 

[Deleted member 238128]

I assume were referring to the immediate area where she went missing. Beverley Rd/Beresford Ave, Cott rd/Clough rd junction. Just around there would be my interpretation of "in the area".

I’m certain he did not leave any of those areas undetected.

 

[lilmissd33]

A little bird told me that it is impossible to scream if you are drowning. If the gasp reflex has been activated your body is already in the process of prioritising oxygen conservation it would not allow you to scream as it views breathing to be far more important.

I thought the same, and if anything people hold there breathe, asking for help is impossible let alone 15 mins of screaming intermittently , also splashing thrashing is rarely seen,

 

[Catsarse]

I've always thought it looked like a man getting into the passenger side on the Haworth st CCTV

Could pr and someone else have tried to persuade Libby to get into the car and failed. Then she could have wondered off down Beresford and they could have followed after her in the car?

I’ve always thought that the person getting into the passenger side is either yanked back towards someone, before getting in, or it has the illusion of someone turning back quickly (as you would if you were giving someone a kiss for example).

It’s like their body and legs are pulled away from getting in, a second or two passes and then they step in the car.

To me it doesn’t appear that they’re forced in

 

[Cherwell]

I thought the same, and if anything people hold there breathe, asking for help is impossible let alone 15 mins of screaming intermittently , also splashing thrashing is rarely seen,

True.
How To Recognise Drowning | TheYachtMarket

 

[Mommysleuth11]

I’m certain he did not leave any of those areas undetected.

Me too. I just think the police asking for dashcam around there from 1130-0300 coupled with the 'last witnesses' on oak rd cctv at 0234, tells us, the public a lot about what LE know about his movements that night. My guess is they werent very far, no further than Oak Rd and Raglan St.

Of course we cant be sure at the moment but seems most likely.

 

[Vermont24]

I’ve always thought that the person getting into the passenger side is either yanked back towards someone, before getting in, or it has the illusion of someone turning back quickly (as you would if you were giving someone a kiss for example).

It’s like their body and legs are pulled away from getting in, a second or two passes and then they step in the car.

To me it doesn’t appear that they’re forced in

I'll bet that plenty of abductions look totally benign, and are done by deception or coercion rather than physical force.

Being a child, it's not the same, but nobody who has seen the James Bulger abduction images will forget them.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Back to spidercam footage again.

My observation after studying the footage. After the first movement that looked like something being placed over the seat or in the back. The person almost disappears from view towards the rear door but you can just see a slither of their back through the open door. I thought i could see rocking or swaying in the sort of way you would if you were leveraging against something heavy. It's like rock, rock, person gets in. I hope this makes sense and its hard to explain what i mean. Does anyone else see it?

 

[lilmissd33]

True.
How To Recognise Drowning | TheYachtMarket

Cold water drowning can be instantaneous too,
STAGE ONE – COLD WATER SHOCK (CWS) – CAN BE LETHAL IN MINUTES.

• Begins immediately, peaks in 30 seconds and lasts 2-3 minutes.
• Characterised by instantaneous gasping, followed by rapid breathing. If the victim’s head is under water drowning can occur immediately, without the victim returning to the surface! The rapid breathing can decrease the normal levels of CO2 in the blood and can lead to confusion, dizziness or unconsciousness. Victims may not be able to differentiate between up and down.
• Heart rate, blood pressure and cardiac workload increase which can result in heart attacks or cardiac arrest.
• Breath holding ability decreases dramtically from a minute or so to less than ten seconds, which may complicate the victim's ability to escape from a capsized boat.
• How to Survive in Cold Water | TheYachtMarket
• All of which with alcohol and prolonged exposure to cold prior to the eentering water on top