Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #13 *ARREST*

[Plod]

She could have used his toilet though, or a pub toilet. Why the park? There are more options than that very risky one.[/QUOTE
Deleted

 

[Cherwell]

She could have used his toilet though, or a pub toilet. Why the park? There are more options than that very risky one.

There look to be public toilets at the entrance to the park, in the car park. Doubt they would be open at that hour, but are there any pubs nearby that are open after midnight on a weekday?

 

[lilmissd33]

There look to be public toilets at the entrance to the park, in the car park. Doubt they would be open at that hour, but are there any pubs nearby that are open after midnight on a weekday?

I'm would go in my own back garden if I was a stone's throw away,

 

[jessie]

I have a suspicion it's also a tactical move to unsettle his over confidence ..... SNIP .... and he is there of his own free will in a way he chose to refuse bail application so why would an innocent man chose to stay he would want to get out away from criminals and the looks he must get and fight to show his innocence. So LE will not look a gift horse in the mouth and carry on meticulously building a case with the knowledge he can't hurt anyone else so urgency will help the rush and chances of mistakes.

IMO I think this statement is misleading. I very much doubt he is there of his own free will and chose to refuse a bail application.
His solicitor would have been advised by the police on this matter, and the accused usually would follow his solicitor's instructions on the chances of being allowed bail - and whether to apply or not.
I'm not privvy to what has gone on of course, but feel the assumption you state is not correct as this would not have been a 'personal choice'.

 

[Skigh]

I might be wrong but I think I remember his mother saying they could not afford the money needed for bail.
I think she said £2,000.

 

[TheCasual]

There look to be public toilets at the entrance to the park, in the car park. Doubt they would be open at that hour, but are there any pubs nearby that are open after midnight on a weekday?

Haworth Arms shuts at midnight on a Thursday I remember rightly. Gardeners which is other end of Haworth Street on Cottingham Road shuts at 12:30am on Thursday.

 

[BlueShoe]

I don't post all that often but here are my thoughts. I'm quite sure that it is Libby getting into PR's car. Here is why. We see a car identical to his parked very near where Libby is seated on the bench. Next we see someone resembling PR heading towards the direction of the bench. Then we see him return and see someone with him who plops (or is plopped) into the passenger seat. This is very near the time that Libby is last seen. If this were someone else, or if the police were not quite certain who it was, they would have said something by now. So Occam's Razor says that Libby was in PR's car shortly after last seen.

Next we have the screams in the park (I'm ignoring the gate closing noise, because that seems quite uncertain to me). Some people have said it may be foxes. Were there foxes screaming there other nights and did the ear-witnesses indicate that this was the case. I think probably not. What are the chances of foxes screaming on that one night only during a time that Libby could have been in the park? Unlikely, in my view. If Libby was screaming in the park, something happened there. If PR happened to drop his glasses (no way of knowing but I like this hypothesis) that would be something to search for, as it would not be likely that he would have just plain have the glasses fall from his face while on a stroll in the park.

The CCTV recording of the four people is also interesting. I think this was just a search for potential witnesses who may have heard or seen something. I can't think of any way this would directly relate to the case in other respects.

This is such a tragic case and really grabbed my attention for some reason. Something about Libby really seemed to call to me, and I do hope the police are on the right track and that there is sufficient evidence. I see no problem with someone who is responsible for the actions that PR has been charged with (if it really does turn out to be him) in escalating to more serious crimes. Not every criminal goes by the expected steps. This is all my opinion, and my heart hurts for the loss of Libby.

 

[lilmissd33]

IMO I think this statement is misleading. I very much doubt he is there of his own free will and chose to refuse a bail application.
His solicitor would have been advised by the police on this matter, and the accused usually would follow his solicitor's instructions on the chances of being allowed bail - and whether to apply or not.
I'm not privvy to what has gone on of course, but feel the assumption you state is not correct as this would not have been a 'personal choice'.

In fairness I understand and accept your way of viewing it, however I am going to stick to my view on matters, he may have been advised by solicitors etc and we can say the advice was to not apply but i can beg to differ, he could have told him to apply but thats not out for us public to know, there's only one person who could decide to apply and if he was advised not too he didn't have nothing to lose asking so it seems like a moot point he could apply then weigh up all choices. But by instructing his solicitor not to apply he chose to stay. He made a choice regardless of having slim chance he chose no chance.

 

[Audiohoney]

I might be wrong but I think I remember his mother saying they could not afford the money needed for bail.
I think she said £2,000.

Monetary bail bonds do not exist in the UK like in the USA.

So IF this was said by his mother either, he spun her a lie or she misunderstood.

 

[jessie]

In fairness I understand and accept your way of viewing it, however I am going to stick to my view on matters, he may have been advised by solicitors etc and we can say the advice was to not apply but i can beg to differ, he could have told him to apply but thats not out for us public to know, there's only one person who could decide to apply and if he was advised not too he didn't have nothing to lose asking so it seems like a moot point he could apply then weigh up all choices. But by instructing his solicitor not to apply he chose to stay. He made a choice regardless of having slim chance he chose no chance.

Can I just say it is helpful if one quotes the post they are replying to, thanks.

I absolutely respect your right to your own opinion of course, as I hope you respect mine.

If his solicitor was told by the police they would challenge bail and there was therefore no point in applying, this imo cannot be interpreted as this POI had a choice in the matter.

IMO once charged one's personal choices are very much diminished.

 

[Cherwell]

If his solicitor was told by the police they would challenge bail and there was therefore no point in applying, this imo cannot be interpreted as this POI had a choice in the matter.

IMO once charged one's personal choices are very much diminished.

One also has to take into account other factors such as his house not being available to him, risk of being attacked since the media identified him, and possible domestic problems. So it doesn't leave him much choice in practical terms.

 

[jessie]

One also has to take into account other factors such as his house not being available to him, risk of being attacked since the media identified him, and possible domestic problems. So it doesn't leave him much choice in practical terms.

Yes I understand all that Cherwell of course. I was attempting to raise the legal point of this POI deciding for himself to be remanded.

 

[Audiohoney]

If his solicitor was told by the police they would challenge bail and there was therefore no point in applying, this imo cannot be interpreted as this POI had a choice in the matter.

But surely he still has a choice there Jessie? The police can say to his solicitor ‘listen we’re going to oppose bail’ they could even go as far as to say ‘it’s pointless you trying because we will request it be denied and the judge will agree with us’ - but it’s not their decision. So his solicitor has to present all options to PR.

Let’s say he told PR ‘if we apply for bail, the police are going to strongly oppose it’, if you found yourself in that position, what would you do? It’s not a police decision, the judge gets to decide, so I personally would say ‘hey, I have nothing to lose! Request I get bailed!’.

That said, in PRs situation with my house boarded up, wife and kids gone and a public lynch mob failing to grasp the law of ‘innocent until proven guilty’ ... I think I’d stay put. His solicitor could even have explained to him ‘look Pawel, the police want you banged up, we’ve got little to no chance of getting you out’, but it would still be PRs ultimate choice as to what he does with that information.

 

[lilmissd33]

Can I just say it is helpful if one quotes the post they are replying to, thanks.

I absolutely respect your right to your own opinion of course, as I hope you respect mine.

If his solicitor was told by the police they would challenge bail and there was therefore no point in applying, this imo cannot be interpreted as this POI had a choice in the matter.

IMO once charged one's personal choices are very much diminished.

Sorry who should I have quoted?
And by the definition of choosing to accept his solicitors advice in your case scenario it is obviously a choice,
People have very little chance of winning the lottery however they still buy a ticket, his solicitor is instructed by only him the police wouldn't have any say in bail the word of the law is used and the solicitor is much more informed on how it works than LE and his solicitor would have made a strong case for bail regardless of chances, and an innocent man at that just acepting to do time im prison no questions asked surely a small glimmer of hope is better than no hope. But as ive said regardless of the improbability of why he did or didn't apply etc, the point is in the eyes of the law he chose to instruct his solicitor not to apply. HE CHOSE as in made that choice so as misleading as it may be thats out of my control, I can't say on here he didn't chose to stay, same as if he had been denied bail I couldn't say he did chosen to stay because his freedom was denied in that scenario.

 

[Plod]

Yes I understand all that Cherwell of course. I was attempting to raise the legal point of this POI deciding for himself to be remanded.

The police can release in bail after charge - did they not say that he was refused bail as he was a flight risk?
He can also make bail applications at his Court appearances - but has not done so. I guess what Cherwell says is right - where would he go to and given the issues involved his defence team might have advise him he was better off not outside!

 

[Audiohoney]

The police can release in bail after charge - did they not say that he was refused bail as he was a flight risk?
He can also make bail applications at his Court appearances - but has not done so. I guess what Cherwell says is right - where would he go to and given the issues involved his defence team might have advise him he was better off not outside!

I think Joelle explained bail was opposed the second time he was in court with flight risk cited. But after that it was never requested.

 

[Skigh]

Do prisoners on remand get more privileges than a convicted prisoner?

 

[lilmissd33]

The police can release in bail after charge - did they not say that he was refused bail as he was a flight risk?
He can also make bail applications at his Court appearances - but has not done so. I guess what Cherwell says is right - where would he go to and given the issues involved his defence team might have advise him he was better off not outside!

home to his young wife and very young children would be most innocent men's first choice, and I'm sure he would have been allocated accommodation, as he is not to blame for his house being sealed, the point I was making is by law have the choice to apply or not he chose not, and while everyone is welcome to their own opinion, I am sorry you feel mislead by my wording but it's the only way I could legally say why LE have the luxury of time to carry on investigation.

 

[motherofdaughters]

It was quoted from someone with knowledge of the Tides/currents in msm that had Libby not been found near Spurn Point she would have been lost to the sea in only about 3 hours.

I saw it quoted in the Grimsby Telegraph, I’ll find the link but I’m sure it said another 2-3 tides (rather than hours) and she’d be gone

Ok, found it, headline says ‘Within hours’ but the text says


‘’Experienced mariners told GrimsbyLive the calm conditions on The River Humber had given an eagle-eyed crew member of a passing vessel the chance to identify a body in the river. And said he believed "another three or four tides" would have seen her lost into the North Sea.‘’

I’m guessing 2-3 tides would be 1.5? Days not hours.

How tragic Libby Squire was just hours away from being lost forever

 

[lilmissd33]

But surely he still has a choice there Jessie? The police can say to his solicitor ‘listen we’re going to oppose bail’ they could even go as far as to say ‘it’s pointless you trying because we will request it be denied and the judge will agree with us’ - but it’s not their decision. So his solicitor has to present all options to PR.

Let’s say he told PR ‘if we apply for bail, the police are going to strongly oppose it’, if you found yourself in that position, what would you do? It’s not a police decision, the judge gets to decide, so I personally would say ‘hey, I have nothing to lose! Request I get bailed!’.

That said, in PRs situation with my house boarded up, wife and kids gone and a public lynch mob failing to grasp the law of ‘innocent until proven guilty’ ... I think I’d stay put. His solicitor could even have explained to him ‘look Pawel, the police want you banged up, we’ve got little to no chance of getting you out’, but it would still be PRs ultimate choice as to what he does with that information.

l
I think we made all the same points in one way or another ha