Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #13 *ARREST*

[lilmissd33]

And to add to disagreement that forensic science is loaded with pseudo science and untested claims, DNA and other types of forensic science has also proven people innocent who were falsely incarcerated when we did not have such technology. Some after more than 20 years. It may not always be perfect but it is much better than 30-40 years ago.

Well put and so many innocent people are tested and cleared from a case we will never hear about saving resources from other ways to clear them, if I ever found myself wrongly suspected of a crime I'd hope there was forensic evidence at the scene ...... I simple way to clear your name.

 

[yoyo1]

I suspect she went to the park consensually, expecting to be able to take a pee. Who knows where they parked, I suspect not in the car park itself if it was locked, so maybe just outside the gates or further down the street. At this point there was no reason for her to suspect any foul play, otherwise there'd have been a commotion closer to the residential area and someone would likely have been alerted and a visible sighting noted from one of the houses.

She probably wondered so far into the park herself, or maybe with his assistance. Perhaps, at a stretch, he had effected to wait for her on the bench that CSI people went to early in the investigation.

And at some point, either during or after she relieved herself, he struck.

Whether he went full on frenzied rapist or broke out into his normal ritual acts, she knew she was in trouble and freaked out. She screamed and tried to flee so he silenced her as quickly as he could. Maybe he beat her unconscious/dead, or more likely strangled her.

He knew the body would be quickly discovered with probable DNA if left out in the open. He couldn't risk taking the body back to his car to dump it elsewhere for the same reason, plus the risk of being sighted out in the open. So instead he dragged and plopped her into the river and hoped the currents would work their magic, or at least make it look like a drowning, and potentially wash away surface traces of his DNA, assuming he hadn't had his way with her.

I think it was probably as simple as that.

Yes it probably was pretty much simple as that and like Cagneys time line suggests ;
11:49ish PR? car arrives on Haworth Street (per ITV CCTV)
12:08 passenger door opens and someone/something is on passenger seat (CCTV)
12:09 car drives away (CCTV)
12:15-12:30ish dark and eerie screams coming from park for 15 minutes
12:30ish man seen running from park
Conceivably it could have been over that quick , how pointless and stupid and sad.
It does make you think what a potentially vital witness the boy who witnessed running man might be , hopefully he got a good enough look to make an id.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

I have spent the majority of my adult life in and around the University of Hull, first as a student and later an employee. By far my favourite aspect of my last role there was meeting students to discuss their courses, and how they were working towards their aspirations for the future. Their optimism was a source of strength and energy for me.

My late-20s were blighted by severe depression. I lost my job and my home, but not once did I cry for myself. Not even when I was at my very lowest. I didn't cry for years - not until Libby had been missing for almost 2 weeks and a vigil was held for her at a local church.

I had the opportunity to bounce back and find my life again. Libby never will, and that is unspeakably sad. In her moving words, Libby's friend Amelia reassured those that didn't know Libby personally of their right to cry for her. We can all mourn her. I cry for the obvious kindness in her heart, the relationships she had with others and the warmth she brought to their lives, and her boundless potential never to be realised. I cry for those she has left behind, who must now face life without the benefit of her presence.

Some of my friends cannot understand why I have shown such an interest in these events if it upsets me. I can't reconcile that attitude, and am reminded of a quote from one of my favourite sociologists:

A society which considers itself to be just, has ceased to be so
​

We cannot afford the luxury of being wilfully myopic. We shouldn't look away just because something is bad or scares us. This is no different. Injustice needs to be looked square in the eye. That night seems to have been an awful confluence of circumstances. Whilst the blame falls nowhere but on those who were ultimately responsible, there were so many junctures where things could have been done differently.​

We simply have to be more aware of one another, and treat each other with care and a considered compassion.

Like a million times!!!

 

[lilmissd33]

Yes I had recalled it being stated. Couldn’t remember whether it was a SM rumour. But as @efhds has kindly shared, it was the interview she did with MSM.

Regardless of whether she said it, it’s simply not true. No money is required to post bail in the UK. I do agree with the suggestion here that his mother might have alluded to this in MSM in the hope they’d fund her airline ticket or help contribute towards a legal defence for her son. The interview with his sister and mother are hard to take as fact because so much could be lost in translation.

I actually read this as her way of saying i am not coming to UK but I really do believe in my son ..... any excuse to not travel to support him.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

This is the article I saw and it was very early on so maybe information changed or maybe I've misunderstood it (happens often

Doesn't state which side of road so could be interpreted either way.

It is a direct quote from LE though.

Hmmm. Could it just be that Beresford Av is more well known than Haworth which is a side street you can't turn onto from Bev Road and may not sound familiar to motorists? If appealing for witnesses the area would be pinpointed more obviously than using Haworth.

My gut feeling is PR was cruising about and spotted something interesting going on and thought he'd go and park up discreetly so he could get a better look. I'm unconvinced he knew he was going to harm Libby at that point, since he parked up and sat right in front of a business (whether he could see the camera or not, I think if I was planning something nefarious I'd assume there might be one there)

 

[Joolz1975]

Hmmm. Could it just be that Beresford Av is more well known than Haworth which is a side street you can't turn onto from Bev Road and may not sound familiar to motorists? If appealing for witnesses the area would be pinpointed more obviously than using Haworth.

My gut feeling is PR was cruising about and spotted something interesting going on and thought he'd go and park up discreetly so he could get a better look. I'm unconvinced he knew he was going to harm Libby at that point, since he parked up and sat right in front of a business (whether he could see the camera or not, I think if I was planning something nefarious I'd assume there might be one there)

Yeh maybe sounds like common sense.

Agree with every other point also.

 

[Enquirer-2019]

He won't get locked based on what is written here though! That's a nonsensical statement. The police must already have had a lot of evidence to question him for the full 96 hours allowed. It is very difficult to get courts to agree to that without presenting new bits of evidence

This is NOT a court of law. We do NOT have the evidence the police have. Nor are we party to his defence. His trial will be held away from Hull.

I'm not sure why a jury would be blood thirsty either. They are told to keep emotions out and look at facts. They are specifically instructed to ignore anything said outside of the courtroom

It won't be one piece of forensic science that will convict or absolve him it'll be lots of different pieces of evidence. CCTV, phone pings, witnesses, DNA, fingerprints, soil samples, footprints, cause of death etc. His defence will have access to ALL that information as well.

The bar for beyond all reasonable doubt is very, very high! Lots of bits of evidence all having to point the same way.

To get 'certainty' as you are proposing then every citizen would need to be accompanied at all times by a police officer with recording equipment. Actually make that 2 police officers in case one lies and maybe an member of the public to check they don't collude.

Your claim that forensic science is loaded with pseudo science and untested claims is simply the most dangerous thing I've ever heard. It is run by qualified scientists. It's been tested and retested. But I'm willing to read any peer reviewed papers you are party to that have managed to discredit the whole DNA sampling, fingerprinting, CCTV, dashcam, pollen analysis, medicine etc along with every scientist involved. I have a science degree so only proper peer review will do for this.

Lastly there is simply no motive for anyone to 'fit' PR up for this crime. If it is him then the police have a duty to protect other young women and their families and prove it. If it isn't him there won't be proof. And in between there will actual guilty but presumption of innocence which will be your guilty man walking free.

I also hold to the better 10 guilty men go free than 1 innocent suffer quote. Thats why we have Independent courts, trial by jury, chances to appeal, right to a defence and a beyond all reasonable doubt!

This is just a discussion form to discuss ifs and buts.

I absolutely agree, brilliantly and well-explained @Newthoughts.

 

[lilmissd33]

Hmmm. Could it just be that Beresford Av is more well known than Haworth which is a side street you can't turn onto from Bev Road and may not sound familiar to motorists? If appealing for witnesses the area would be pinpointed more obviously than using Haworth.

My gut feeling is PR was cruising about and spotted something interesting going on and thought he'd go and park up discreetly so he could get a better look. I'm unconvinced he knew he was going to harm Libby at that point, since he parked up and sat right in front of a business (whether he could see the camera or not, I think if I was planning something nefarious I'd assume there might be one there)

I don't believe his plan was for harm at this point either I think he loitered to get up to his normal behaviour maybe more contact this time type thing but something happened and his next few decisions where horrific for Libby, why he went down that route I cannot fathom

 

[muguetdesbois]

The morning after Libby's body was found in the Humber, a Sky TV News reporter (reporting from the bench on Beverley Road) said that in recent weeks the police had used drones going up and down the Humber to search for Libby.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Would someone mind explaining bail in the U.K. maybe it has been posted before but I am not sure. If not monetary than what? TIA

 

[bos]

The morning after Libby's body was found in the Humber, a Sky TV News reporter (reporting from the bench on Beverley Road) said that in recent weeks the police had used drones going up and down the Humber to search for Libby.

Thanks for that, I wondered whether they’d use them, seems an excellent way to get sight of large areas without the costs associated with boats, helicopters and personnel.

 

[Joolz1975]

Thanks for that, I wondered whether they’d use them, seems an excellent way to get sight of large areas without the costs associated with boats, helicopters and personnel.

They are amazing tools for things like this.

I used mine to look for a missing dog when we were on holiday, didn't find it but covered loads of ground with it.

 

[muguetdesbois]

Thanks for that, I wondered whether they’d use them, seems an excellent way to get sight of large areas without the costs associated with boats, helicopters and personnel.

That's what I thought too. Also makes one appreciate what the police said about carrying on their investigations in a less visible way (compared to the Oak Road searches).

 

[jessie]

Well apropos of no recent posts I am going to say this.

From the release of 'spidercam' I have had serious doubts about the spiderweb preventing a decent view. OIMO of course, but I think the spiderweb has been added to that CCTV - imo the spiderweb didn't exist.

I seriously doubt this webcam would have been released if it was possible to identify those filmed.

So imo after subtle additions to prevent identifications of individuals this cctv was released to the public. I am at a loss to explain why though

 

[Audiohoney]

Would someone mind explaining bail in the U.K. maybe it has been posted before but I am not sure. If not monetary than what? TIA

As I understood it, money is never involved in UK bail situations, but I stand corrected. There is apparently such a thing as a ‘surety’.

Taken from this article (apologies for linking to The Sun) but the article does explain it clearly

How does bail work in the UK?

What is a surety and what happens if the defendant flees?
A surety or sureties will put a sum of money in the hands of the court as a guarantee that the defendant will not abscond during a case if they are granted bail.

The sum of money or value of assets required to grant a defendant bail will be decided by the court.

If the defendant does flee the surety will forfeit the money or asset.

The surety will have an opportunity to tell the court why they should not lose the entire sum, but the starting point is that the whole amount should be deducted.

 

[Audiohoney]

Well apropos of no recent posts I am going to say this.

From the release of 'spidercam' I have had serious doubts about the spiderweb preventing a decent view. OIMO of course, but I think the spiderweb has been added to that CCTV - imo the spiderweb didn't exist.

I seriously doubt this webcam would have been released if it was possible to identify those filmed.

So imo after subtle additions to prevent identifications of individuals this cctv was released to the public. I am at a loss to explain why though

I think somebody might have also suggested this here when it was first released. It does seem incredibly bad luck that the cobweb is there.

That said, the footage was not an essential part of a police witness appeal, as far as I recall. So I too am at a loss as to why they would go to the effort of super imposing a spiders web onto footage they really did not need to share with the public.

 

[Skigh]

Well apropos of no recent posts I am going to say this.

From the release of 'spidercam' I have had serious doubts about the spiderweb preventing a decent view. OIMO of course, but I think the spiderweb has been added to that CCTV - imo the spiderweb didn't exist.

I seriously doubt this webcam would have been released if it was possible to identify those filmed.

So imo after subtle additions to prevent identifications of individuals this cctv was released to the public. I am at a loss to explain why though

 

[Officer Dibble]

We have just returned from Hull to pay our respects and leave flowers. It’s something as a family we wanted to do.

We approached Libby’s bench which had so many tributes left from locals and also people from outside the area which was lovely to see.

As we were taking it all in, the wind was taken out of my sails. When from Haworth Street, Russ and Lisa Squire amongst two others emerged to see the tributes on the bench. They seen we had put the flowers down and smiled at us, they seem a lovely pair to be able to do that and keep strong amidst every parents worst nightmare.

Normally I’m very chatty and will talk to anyone. But personally I didn’t think it was appropriate at this moment in time, we wanted to give them space and respect their privacy.

Oh that is lovely.

 

[Joolz1975]

I think somebody might have also suggested this here when it was first released. It does seem incredibly bad luck that the cobweb is there.

That said, the footage was not an essential part of a police witness appeal, as far as I recall. So I too am at a loss as to why they would go to the effort of super imposing a spiders web onto footage they really did not need to share with the public.

It was ITV that shared it though not LE.

They will obviously have had some consultation with the police before releasing it and I'm sure they wouldn't have released it if it compromised the investigation in any way.

Whether they would go to the trouble of super imposing a spider web on it I'm not sure though.

But it is oddly fortunate that it's disguises the driver perfectly.

 

[Skigh]

I have thought exactly the same things.Could it be to encourage the cyclist or any one else to come forward with information.

Perhaps the police would only let it be released if it was disguised in some way.
I think the police have a much clearer version.